First Group: General Discussion

[KendalKing]

It has. Streetlites are already at Slough/Southampton/Weymouth and in Wales. Remember that they were later in placing the order!

Also, the StreetLite's for Halifax have recently been delivered, and Bradford's are currently in delivery.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Also, the StreetLite's for Halifax have recently been delivered, and Bradford's are currently in delivery.

So I think it's roughly....

31 Streetlites to Cymru
18 Streetlites to FHDB
16 Streetlites to Essex

...and let's say about half the West Yorkshire ones (10). That's 75 out of 385 delivered in last couple of months - Slackers

 

[83G/84D]

10 July 2015

Breaking News!!!
Bus operator, First South West, today (10 July 2015) signed an agreement to sell its operations in South Devon to Stagecoach. On completion of the sale, expected to conclude 6 September 2015, the Plymouth bus depot, outstations at Tavistock and Dartmouth and around 250 staff will transfer to Stagecoach.
Alex Carter, Managing Director of First South West, said: “Despite the focus on services and the hard work of everyone in South Devon, unfortunately the business has underperformed for a number of years. I’m pleased we’ve negotiated an agreement to sell and therefore help protect jobs and key services.
“The sale does not, in any way, reflect the commitment of our employees in the area who have worked tirelessly to provide the best possible service to local communities. I’d like to thank them for their hard work and loyalty over the years. We will be fully supporting them as they transfer to their new employer.

““We’re proud to have served the South Devon community and would like to thank passengers for travelling with First South West over the years. I can assure our customers that we will continue to run services as normal up to and..........

(The statement finishes rather prematurely).

source:- www.plymothiantransit.com

 

[Robertj21a]

Not too surprising after the other recent closure announcements. Mr Souter motors onwards !

 

[Surreyman]

Not too surprising after the other recent closure announcements. Mr Souter motors onwards !

Happy as I am to see the sale go through, I wonder what the CMA are going to say?
This surely makes Stagecoach the major operator in Devon.
This Sale/Takeover is an interesting one, First have clearly struggled to make the Plymouth operation profitable, maybe Stagecoach made a 'competitive offer:' from Firsts point of view, a clean sale, even a cut price one would be better than the negative PR of redundancies and service cut-backs.
Not many details of the actual deal, does it include the freehold of the main depot? Are any vehicles involved? I note that the statement mentions Dartmouth & Tavistock but not Torpoint? - an oversight or genuinely not included?
Much as I admire Stagecoach & loath Firstbus I can't help wondering what SC can do to turn it into a successful Profitable operation.
SC have quite a large 'reserve' fleet around the country plus they could divert new vehicles on order (The DDA situation at SC is very healthy with more vehicles in the current order than needed to replace non DDA single decks).
If few vehicles are transferred, it will certainly help FIRSTs short-term DDA fleet replacement programme!

 

[overthewater]

It all depends on a number of factors, remember Go Ahead will still provide competition around Plymouth.

We also don't know if Stagecoach will keep all services going? I also cant see the both outstations being kept, you could in theory move them into other depots?

To be fair, there really isn't much Stagecoach and First services in South hams: http://www.devonbustimetables.info/south_hams/

Most people need to remember Stagecoach is far better at operating rural bus networks than First, since the 1990s.

And then there was one..... I'm a bit surprised the last under performing depot or depots in First happens to be with First Scotland East. I wonder what will happen, or what is it there know that we don't know?

Mind you where it all started, could be the place where it will finish?

 

[LateThanNever]

10 July 2015

Breaking News!!!
Bus operator, First South West, today (10 July 2015) signed an agreement to sell its operations in South Devon to Stagecoach. On completion of the sale, expected to conclude 6 September 2015, the Plymouth bus depot, outstations at Tavistock and Dartmouth and around 250 staff will transfer to Stagecoach.
Alex Carter, Managing Director of First South West, said: “Despite the focus on services and the hard work of everyone in South Devon, unfortunately the business has underperformed for a number of years. I’m pleased we’ve negotiated an agreement to sell and therefore help protect jobs and key services.
“The sale does not, in any way, reflect the commitment of our employees in the area who have worked tirelessly to provide the best possible service to local communities. I’d like to thank them for their hard work and loyalty over the years. We will be fully supporting them as they transfer to their new employer.

““We’re proud to have served the South Devon community and would like to thank passengers for travelling with First South West over the years. I can assure our customers that we will continue to run services as normal up to and..........

(The statement finishes rather prematurely).

source:- www.plymothiantransit.com

Interesting.
I suppose Competition Commision issues will be limited because of Go Ahead Plymouth - who are likely to be less than delighted..
Certainly it puts First Cornwall out on a limb!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Interesting.
I suppose Competition Commision issues will be limited because of Go Ahead Plymouth - who are likely to be less than delighted..
Certainly it puts First Cornwall out on a limb!

By the way does anyone know the price!?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It all depends on a number of factors, remember Go Ahead will still provide competition around Plymouth.

We also don't know if Stagecoach will keep all services going? I also cant see the both outstations being kept, you could in theory move them into other depots?

This would be Stagecoach Devon that has depots at Barnstaple, Exeter, Torquay and Exmouth and outstations at Paignton, Bude, Chard, Sidmouth, Dawlish?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Doubt the authorities will have much interest. There's little duplication and so difficult to justify.

Also, Cornwall may be on a limb but it was anyway. Difference is that it now doesn't haemorrhage cash

 

[overthewater]

By the way does anyone know the price!?

£1 plus debt and upgrading the fleet but who knows.....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

£1 plus debt and upgrading the fleet but who knows.....

Surely the real benefit will be avoiding the exit costs from a closure?

 

[mbonwick]

I'm hearing that no vehicles are involved...Stagecoach to supply their own when the time comes.

Info has come through a few too many people for my liking, so could well be duff gen.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm hearing that no vehicles are involved...Stagecoach to supply their own when the time comes.

Info has come through a few too many people for my liking, so could well be duff gen.

Curious that nothing's been announced on either corporate site AFAIK

 

[johnw]

Curious that nothing's been announced on either corporate site AFAIK

As I would imagine that this is a takeover by Stagecoach Devon Ltd and not Stagecoach Group PLC, compared to when the Traction Group was acquired.

 

[Surreyman]

£1 plus debt and upgrading the fleet but who knows.....

Maybe 'We will pay you £100,000 to take it off our hands!'

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Maybe 'We will pay you £100,000 to take it off our hands!'

Even if that were the case, and you don't know if it is, it probably still represents a better deal than if it were a closedown which is how it was looking.

The Plymouth fleet was/is archaic and may well be a case of the Single Decks mainly heading to Alpha and the Tridents and whatever else half decent kit heading to Kernow to remove non DDA and expired kit there.

It's a good move all round though maybe not for Go Ahead. I expect peace to break out on certain corridors!!

 

[Surreyman]

Even if that were the case, and you don't know if it is, it probably still represents a better deal than if it were a closedown which is how it was looking.

The Plymouth fleet was/is archaic and may well be a case of the Single Decks mainly heading to Alpha and the Tridents and whatever else half decent kit heading to Kernow to remove non DDA and expired kit there.

It's a good move all round though maybe not for Go Ahead. I expect peace to break out on certain corridors!!

Completely agree, in fact 250 staff redundancies would come to considerably more than £100,000, even if many were fairly recent joiners.

I note from VOSA registrations that all bus services registered to First Devon & Cornwall have 'The Ride, Chelson Meadow' as the (presumably) registered Head Office address, suggesting that;-
1. The Head Office function will need to be moved to ??
2. The H.O staff will need to move & won't be part of the 250 transferring.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Completely agree, in fact 250 staff redundancies would come to considerably more than £100,000, even if many were fairly recent joiners.

I note from VOSA registrations that all bus services registered to First Devon & Cornwall have 'The Ride, Chelson Meadow' as the (presumably) registered Head Office address, suggesting that;-
1. The Head Office function will need to be moved to ??
2. The H.O staff will need to move & won't be part of the 250 transferring.

Yep, even if 20% of staff had 2 yrs or less then it would be at least £200k and probably a lot more.

They'll be a few dedicated HO staff but not many with a bit of HR, Mktg, admin. Guess they'll TUPE across to Stagecoach. Wonder if Hamilton Road might be the new HQ?

 

[Sandy Drew]

Curious that nothing's been announced on either corporate site AFAIK

You're right, it is extremely odd there is nothing at all official available from either party.

Plymouth registrations have started to appear on VOSAs website under the Stagecoach Devon legals. So far are the 1,2,89 and Park & Ride.

I'm surprised about First doing another deal with stagecoach, given the territory nibbling that has occurred recently in Edinburgh, South Yorkshire, Greater Manchester and Devon.

 

[KendalKing]

You're right, it is extremely odd there is nothing at all official available from either party.

Plymouth registrations have started to appear on VOSAs website under the Stagecoach Devon legals. So far are the 1,2,89 and Park & Ride.

I'm surprised about First doing another deal with stagecoach, given the territory nibbling that has occurred recently in Edinburgh, South Yorkshire, Greater Manchester and Devon.

As there been NO official announcement by either First or Stagecoach, makes you wonder, if First have actually sold their operations to Stagecoach, as reported on enthusiasts sites, or if it is just another case of Stagecoach registering services on routes operated by First, same as what happen in Northampton, especially as it being reported that there are no vehicles involved in the sale.

i'm hearing that no vehicles are involved...stagecoach to supply their own when the time comes.

Info has come through a few too many people for my liking, so could well be duff gen.

Agreed

 

[overthewater]

As there been NO official announcement by either First or Stagecoach, makes you wonder, if First have actually sold their operations to Stagecoach, as reported on enthusiasts sites, or if it is just another case of Stagecoach registering services on routes operated by First, same as what happen in Northampton, especially as it being reported that there are no vehicles involved in the sale.

It been said drivers have been given letters outlining TUPE. ( I bet is where the statement come from) I get the feeling the official announcement will be made on a Monday as is standard for all other sell offs. Lets wait till Monday :P

Interesting piece in route one about Stagecoach South West: http://www.route-one.net/industry/operations/stagecoach-south-west-how-to-keep-on-growing/

Why would Stagecoach buy a load of non DDA buses?

 

[swifty]

FIRSTGROUP plc MEDIA RELEASE – FRIDAY 10 JULY 2015

FIRST AGREES SALE OF SOUTH DEVON BUSINESS TO STAGECOACH

Bus operator, First South West, today (10 July 2015) signed an agreement to sell its operations in South Devon to Stagecoach. On completion of the sale, expected to conclude 6 September 2015, the Plymouth bus depot, outstations at Tavistock and Dartmouth and around 250 staff will transfer to Stagecoach.

The release continues and is the same as the one posted on plymothiantransit.com. It's also been suggested that Torpoint depot will close and operations move to the main Plymouth depot.

 

[WatcherZero]

They could buy the depots and routes without the buses or for a nominal fee.

 

[mbonwick]

Allegedly, First already have plans in place to sell off Torpoint for housing.

 

[KendalKing]

The release continues and is the same as the one posted on plymothiantransit.com. It's also been suggested that Torpoint depot will close and operations move to the main Plymouth depot.

I have just re-checked First group website, and there is still nothing on there.

 

[Robertj21a]

I have just re-checked First group website, and there is still nothing on there.

Check on Monday, probably once the Stock Market opens.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's a little odd not to have any official statement. However, I'm certain that the news on Plymothian Transit is kosher and that Stagecoach is taking on the Devon ops as a takeover with staff transferring under TUPE. I can understand if Stagecoach don't take the fleet; a load of shagged Tridents, thirsty B7Ls and non complaint Darts and B6s fit only for the knacker's yard.

Also, I can understand them capitalising on Torpoint property (sad as that is) but surprised that they don't just find a compound to relocate to.

 

[swifty]

I have just re-checked First group website, and there is still nothing on there.

There won't be until the stock market has been informed on Monday morning.

 

[oldman]

It looks as if Plymothiantransit may have got the press release before it was generally released. I would have expected the local press and BBC to have reported it on Friday, if they had received it then. They haven't.

 

[Robertj21a]

At least the staff affected were told before it became general knowledge.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

At least the staff affected were told before it became general knowledge.

I think that's where it's come from. Notification to the staff