I feel for the drivers today with the road conditions across the city. I've already seen pictures of multiple issues in Ashfield and Milton including two crashes and then other issues including buses skidding while trying to turn. Let's just hope nobody is involved in any serious accident today whether it's drivers or passengers.
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First Greater Glasgow
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Heard of another this morning involving 2 buses in Drumry Road East this morning. Services diverting via the Drumchapel Retail Park
That doesn't surprise me to be honest as that road is horrendous in good conditions let alone in times with a lot of black ice. It's a really narrow road with how many cars park on it too and then the speed bumps don't help at all.
Tom Gallacher
Member
I remember when that was the only road into Drumchapel from the west with 3 corporation services and 1 Central SMT all plying their trade along it. Mind you in those days very few people had cars. Having to climb/descend the hill at Halgreen wouldn't have been enjoyable either today if it was icy.
I'm surprised the 1C is actually going to the terminus at Monymusk Place today considering it didn't for most of yesterday. Linkwood Drive also seems to be fine for the 6A too which is unusual considering in most other years, buses have been put straight up Kinfauns Drive as soon as the conditions get worse.
There will be issues on the south side of the city but most of the ones I've seen so far all seem to be on the north side of the city.
Sounds very likely that Glasgow City Council didn't bother to grit the bus routes today or maybe too late for the start of services.
Its hardly a surprise that there were accidents.
At one time only 1 service the Avondale 200 used Drumry Road East. Whilst First served the Retail Park with the 60 and M60. Now all 3 services try to use the congested Drumry Road East, with cars parked on either side of the road. At least the Retail Park exit to Great Western Road has traffic lights the Drumry Road exit has a busy roundabout with a conga line to join Great Western Road and every man for themselves.
It'll be a combination of that and the fact we've had a lot of rain so most of the grit would have washed away. I'm surprised First haven't put something back through Great Western Retail Park just to avoid Drumry Road East with the state of it these days but the unfortunate issue is other than kids going to the McDonald's and a few pensioners, you'd be lucky to get many people getting off in the retail park.
Quite a number of food outlets there now. Never mind Sainbury and B&Q with the recent addition of Iceland in another latest opening. May even encourage shoppers to leave the car at home too. So would appear to have a number of possible users There is a local Drumchaoel shopper service but that only brings customers from there
I think it could work but you'd need more than one bus so people actually have options from different places. If I was going to do any combination of two services it would be the 1C and 60 personally. With the 1C, it wouldn't necessarily need to go out onto Great Western Road either. You could have it serve the retail park and go back out the same way it came in. The only issue would be making sure that they weren't due together in each direction to avoid any confusion.
I'd imagine if First actually spoke to the public there would be a few changes that would benefit everyone that would be possible. Of course, not everything is realistic due to the current driver situation and the amount of car congestion in the city but I'd imagine some feedback would be very handy. It's a business that only does well by serving the public at the end of the day.
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That wouls only cause more confusion than currently exists. The 1C Doesn't serve Drumry Road East or the Retail Park 1C serves Garscadden and Scotstoun then fast to the city. The 60 serves the city, Maryhill, Canniesburm, Bearsden, Drumchaoel and Clydebank The M60 serves Drumchapel and Clydebank and the Clydebank Shopping centre Ditto the Avondale 200. Although all serve Drumchaoel in different ways.
Perhaps the Avondale should continue to serve Drumry Road East and the 60 and M60 should revert to the Retail Park again. Although work would still need to be done on Drumry Road East to allow the buses access. Maybe even bring in parking restrictions or widen the road. Neither of which will go down well with the residents.
If the routes are well explained then the confusion doesn't happen to be honest and I also said those 2 services to give different options instead of having both Clydebank services coming away from Drumry Road East.
Parking restrictions are needed everywhere in the city to be honest but car owners are the most easily offended people on earth from experience if you even dare say something that removes cars from an area. Even when you tell people moaning about buses being late due to car congestion, they try to say it's just an excuse and that First should be able to stick to every timetable they run.
The problem is that this is also publicly driven by politicians who act like First can fix the driver shortage instantly and make every bus on time every single day.
Tom Gallacher
Member
I was speaking to the owners of Avondale a while ago and asked them why they didn't run through the retail park. They were quite adamant that the demand wasn't there as these parks are mostly used by people who are car users.
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From memory there's only 3 bus stops in Drumry Rd East. One is at the swimming baths (that I was the first person to use but that's a different story), there's one around halfway up and another about 150 yards further on. It would be interesting to find out how many passengers actually get on/off at these stops.
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I'm surprised they still exist to be fair. Most of the time when I go for a 1C there is a 400 a minute in front of it and they are good at doing that with the 200 infront of the M60 too.
I always wonder what would have happened if First stuck in with Parkhall and Linnvale. It would have kept them firmly on top of Avondale's entire operations.
The entire network around Clydebank has remained fairly unchanged for a long time to be fair. The 1D starting and the 6 being cut back to Clydebank is the last real change to anything to be honest from memory and that was a long time ago now.
The CQ1 also existed as the non-stopping service between Clydebank and the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital but it didn't last long as it was very rarely used.
On another note regarding change, would First ever cut more evening services to hourly in order to reduce the issues with driver shortages especially as some services carry fresh air at times? It would result in less of a need for wild shift pattern changes too where drivers are on really early shifts and then end up on some of the latest possible shifts.
I personally think that off peak numbers are bouncing back slightly, peak services are constantly very busy now but evening services can be incredibly quiet hence why I think they'd be fine with cuts in order to make sure more peak services run.
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From mermory there are currently 5 or 6 stops on Drumry Road East. One accross from the new police station. Another at the baths, with another at the church. Then another two or maybe even three intermediate stoos in front of houses. At the end of the Road to Great Western Road the road takes a right turn and another stop there too. With similar stops on the other side of the road.
Tom Gallacher
Member
I should have worded it properly. I was wondering if the stops that service Drumry Rd East, Heathcot and Abbotshall provided much custom and I also meant on the same side of the road. There's one between the baths and the church, one around no 240 and one at no 260 (ish). I hadn't included the one next to the police station as this stop is close enough to other bus stops to cover the loss of any service using this route.
Tom Gallacher
Member
Staying on the topic of Drumchapel I think they should consider putting in a turning circle at Hecla Sq. The congestion on Kinfauns Dr at times is horrendous with 3 or 4 buses all queuing up behind each other.
The rail strikes have helped First massively in recent months to be honest and the last minute shoppers will have been out in force.
I can't quite remember the exact figure from the summer strikes but it was roughly a 13-15% increase in passenger numbers I'm sure.
voidwxrranty
Member
Yes, Kinfauns Dr at the time was a good idea, but it’s now not so good, with it only being serviced by the 6A, I personally would’ve thought they would extend the 6A to meet the 3 at Drumchapel Stn, to provide a more direct link to the city from that area, as the only bus in that area besides the 3 that goes to the city, is the 60.
Tom Gallacher
Member
I was meaning the buses crowding up at the shopping centre as you've got the 1C, 3, 6A, 60, a couple of local services (if they're still running) and Avondale all calling at the stops there. A turning circle there could also serve passengers from the Drumry Rd, Heathcot and Abbotshall area (it's not that far, I used to live there). For those at the Clydebank end of those streets it's not a huge distance to Great Western Road if the idea of routing the 60 through the retail park was adopted.
When I lived there only the Alexander's 105 served the shopping centre and that was at a time when the housing scheme had about twice the population it has nowadays and very few cars. Why it needs the number of buses going there is baffling.
The whole of the front of the Shopping centre is marked as bus stops, and a texi rank. However the buses only serve the one stop the far end. The rest of the area is taken up with illegally parked cars and buses cannot pull in to offload or load. Only two at the stop at a time. What's needed is a second stop and services split between the two stops. Alternatively a bus station creared by using part of the car park
voidwxrranty
Member
Ah, yes I feel a bit of re-routing may need a bit of consideration, maybe sending the 60/M60/Avondale Clydebank run to turn right and go down the side of the shopping centre (like when there has been a diversion in place).
Tom Gallacher
Member
A mini bus station or turning circle at Hecla Sq would seem, to me anyway, the most sensible way to provide a safe way for passengers to enter/alight buses at the shopping centre. Similar to the one at Clydebank behind the post office sorting depot. There's no need for buses to be stopping on Kinfauns Dr outside the shopping centre. I also don't think that this car park is used a lot as well so you wouldn't be denying car users a parking space. Kinfauns Dr between Drumry Rd East and Hecla Ave is a disaster waiting to happen.
I fully agree with this. The Farmfoods car park is generally busier than the Hecla Square car park most of the time so it would be quite smart to give bus priority.
I tend to avoid using the stops at Kinfauns Drive at the health centre and shopping centre unless a bus I need is due instantly. If the health centre wasn't there, I'd personally make that section a bus gate between the roundabout and the corner at the end of the park. It would make a lot of things easier and allow more space to have two separate bus stops.
Just by First alone there is 17 buses an hour ( 4 3s, 4 6As, 3 1Cs, 2 60s and 4 M60s) now so one stop isn't ideal especially as all of the services are prone to reliability issues and all end up coming together. The other issue is that drivers tend not to be patient either and sometimes drive away without stopping so they don't lose too much time.
Tom Gallacher
Member
If you had a mini bus station there you could also provide bothy facilities for changeovers etc.
It would certainly be handy for a toilet break if required too. The Drumchapel services are quite unique that all of them have very decent changeover spots.
The 60 has Glasgow Cross/Stockwell Place, the 1C is at Scotstoun with drivers using the depot for breaks, the M60 is Clydebank, the 3 is Scotstoun and the 6A is Anniesland.
Tom Gallacher
Member
It's been a long time since I was involved in running a transport fleet so I'm a bit rusty on drivers hours etc but I assume that bus drivers are subject to the same regs as truck drivers. So, with that in mind,
How long a break do they get during each changeover?
Does the drivers break time start when they hand over the bus or when they get to the place where their break is being held?
Does the driver get allocated a new bus and route on completion of their break?
Does their working time restart when they leave the place where the break was being held or when they actually take over their next bus?
Admin please note that whilst this post is not directly related to First Glasgow I have a follow up post which is and is dependent on the response so please do not delete.
alexf380
Established Member
Bus drivers are required to have a minimum 30 minute break from driving after 5 and a half hours.
Normally (at my company) the break starts as soon as the driver gets off the bus and finishes when they get on their next bus.
Nine times out of ten, a driver will be on a different bus after their break, but sometimes they may be allocated the same bus if their break is long enough that that bus can complete part of a journey (I.e. Scotstoun > Faifley > Scotstoun)
Hope that helps.
Tom Gallacher
Member
Thanks for the quick reply. If the break starts when you hand over the bus and you need to get to the depot then this must take up a big proportion of your break time.
Hypothetically then, if you had a bothy at Drumchapel shopping centre, you could effectively have a couple of drivers who worked as shunters. They pick up the buses if they're heading towards Drumchapel or Clydebank, drive it to the terminus and back, and hand it back over to the original driver. And so on etc.
This way the service is virtually completed with the same driver who will know about any hold ups, road works etc and the drivers get their full break time without any need to travel to the depot.
Just a thought, perhaps impractical for a variety of reasons.
I think this could work where there are bothies in more places but only when there are enough drivers in the company again. Unfortunately we are still a fair bit away from that, although it is improving slowly with training buses being in use most of the time from what I've seen when out and about.
Car congestion is so bad at the minute so it probably messes with breaks all over the place on an hourly basis.
Springburn Road and Kirkintilloch Road were absolutely awful today and most of the 88s and 89s in particular were 20 minutes late or more. Buses being 20-30 minutes late is a daily basis thing now, sadly.
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