First Greater Glasgow

[Tom Gallacher]

I think this could work where there are bothys in more places but only when there are enough drivers in the company again and unfortunately we are still a fair bit away from that although it is improving slowly with training buses being in use most of the time from what I've seen when out and about.

Car congestion is so bad at the minute so it probably messes with breaks all over the place on an hourly basis.

Springburn Road and Kirkintilloch Road were absolutely awful today and most of the 88s and 89s in particular were 20 minutes late or more. Buses being 20-30 minutes late is a daily basis thing now sadly.

There would probably only be a few places that it would work but with proper planning it might actually save on driver numbers as lost time would be kept to a minimum. As an aside when the driver of the 60 has their break how do they get to Caledonia depot (assuming that's where they take it). After their break do they take a new bus out into service or meet another one back at Glasgow X.

 

[PaulMc7]

There would probably only be a few places that it would work but with proper planning it might actually save on driver numbers as lost time would be kept to a minimum. As an aside when the driver of the 60 has their break how do they get to Caledonia depot (assuming that's where they take it). After their break do they take a new bus out into service or meet another one back at Glasgow X.

From what I've seen some drivers do, if it's towards Clydebank or Milngavie they will try and catch a bus over to the depot as soon as possible and if it's towards Easterhouse they tend to start walking rapidly down Saltmarket. The current situation also probably means that if they aren't taking over from another driver then they'll just bring a bus out of the depot.

It seems like an awful lot of running about to go on and off breaks though if they do take them at the depot. Some may do other things for breaks but I'm not sure as I don't work for them. There are usually a fairly big handful of drivers at Buchanan Bus Station a lot of the time too because of the 9, 9A, 87, 88/A/C, 89/A/B, X3, X8, X85, X87 and 500 all doing changeovers there too.

 

[lastbus]

There would probably only be a few places that it would work but with proper planning it might actually save on driver numbers as lost time would be kept to a minimum. As an aside when the driver of the 60 has their break how do they get to Caledonia depot (assuming that's where they take it). After their break do they take a new bus out into service or meet another one back at Glasgow X.

There is a drivers Bothy at slaters in the city centre.

 

[PaulMc7]

There is a drivers Bothy at slaters in the city centre.

Was that a replacement for the one that was down from Forge Retail Park previously?

 

[Albaman]

There would probably only be a few places that it would work but with proper planning it might actually save on driver numbers as lost time would be kept to a minimum. As an aside when the driver of the 60 has their break how do they get to Caledonia depot (assuming that's where they take it). After their break do they take a new bus out into service or meet another one back at Glasgow X.

I have been very interested in reading the recent posts in respect of the arrangements for rest breaks for drivers.

I wonder if it would be possible for someone to provide an example of a duty where the driver takes his or her break at the depot and, also, where the rest break and /or change over takes place at a location away from the depot and, as a result, travel to and from the depot is required.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

There is a drivers Bothy at slaters in the city centre.

Thanks for this info.

 

[92002]

Thanks for the quick reply. If the break starts when you hand over the bus and you need to get to the depot then this must take up a big proportion of your break time.

Hypothetically then, if you had a bothy at Drumchapel shopping centre, you could effectively have a couple of drivers who worked as shunters. They pick up the buses if they're heading towards Drumchapel or Clydebank, drive it to the terminus and back, and hand it back over to the original driver. And so on etc.

This way the service is virtually completed with the same driver who will know about any hold ups, road works etc and the drivers get their full break time without any need to travel to the depot.

Just a thought, perhaps impractical for a variety of reasons.

Probably an easy answer today. Santa was driving his M60 today. After his break he graduated to a double decker with an 81. Easily spotted with his suit of of the Day.

d today

 

[PaulMc7]

Probably an easy answer today. Santa was driving his M60 today. After his break he graduated to a double decker with an 81. Easily spotted with his suit of of the Day.

d today

Interestingly, both buses on the 81 were E400s today according to Bustimes.org and on the app, the capacity free suggested that this was the case too as both times I noticed had 77 seats free and the other double deckers only have 74 except for the 77 branded E400MMCs have 78. They certainly seem to be getting around all of Scotstoun's services at the moment. I also seen one on an X4 too.

 

[DC21]

Has there been a service that's changed terminus points as much as the 240? The core route to Wishaw has remained untouched. Its had Coltness, Pather, Overtown, Motherwell College, Larkhall, Carluke, & Lanark. All in the last 15 years maybe.

Does anyone have a list of services that were created when First took over Hutchisons in Lanarkshire?

 

[duffers2324]

Just reflecting on what had been discussed about Drumchapel and Drumry Rd East in particular, this would probably be my solution, i would have the M60 continue down it as it does tend to be smaller buses that are used and have the 60 go into the retail park, i get that there is very little demand for this part but it prevents buses running late because of getting caught up on a narrow road etc

I would also have to think that it is a bit of a pain in the backside to try and get doubles through most of the time even though it is managed,

Unrelated to this,, though a similar situation, i have always sort of wondered about the need for so many buses to go up and down Barns St/East Barns St in Whitecrook, i have always thought the 1 services should continue along Dumbarton/Glasgow road into Clydebank to make it that bit more like an express service as most people are going from the town into Clydebank for that section and just have the 2 and the 6 continue to serve this road, although i am aware there are a number of people who use the 1 and get on or off at this road (me being 1 at one point point)

 

[PaulMc7]

Just reflecting on what had been discussed about Drumchapel and Drumry Rd East in particular, this would probably be my solution, i would have the M60 continue down it as it does tend to be smaller buses that are used and have the 60 go into the retail park, i get that there is very little demand for this part but it prevents buses running late because of getting caught up on a narrow road etc

I would also have to think that it is a bit of a pain in the backside to try and get doubles through most of the time even though it is managed,

Unrelated to this,, though a similar situation, i have always sort of wondered about the need for so many buses to go up and down Barns St/East Barns St in Whitecrook, i have always thought the 1 services should continue along Dumbarton/Glasgow road into Clydebank to make it that bit more like an express service as most people are going from the town into Clydebank for that section and just have the 2 and the 6 continue to serve this road, although i am aware there are a number of people who use the 1 and get on or off at this road (me being 1 at one point point)

I fully agree with what you've said about the 60. As for the 1s, I'd definitely make the 1/1A/1B/1E go along Glasgow Road but leave the 1D going through Whitecrook. The main issue you'd have though is that you'd need to put on more 1Ds at certain times as there is an absolutely massive gap between 1Ds that go to the City Centre from Mountblow on a Saturday morning. According to the timetable from Mountblow, it's 7:33 then 10:01 for City Centre 1Ds. Every single one in-between is Mountblow to Clydebank only.

For me, the main issues with the 1s are the A82 and how tight the timetable is between Clydebank and the City Centre. Yesterday I got a 1A that was 25 minutes late and it came with a 1B that was 35 minutes late and a 1 that was 15 minutes late. The problem is that the time of day doesn't matter when it comes to them being late either. It can happen at any time.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

I fully agree with what you've said about the 60. As for the 1s, I'd definitely make the 1/1A/1B/1E go along Glasgow Road but leave the 1D going through Whitecrook. The main issue you'd have though is that you'd need to put on more 1Ds at certain times as there is an absolutely massive gap between 1Ds that go to the City Centre from Mountblow on a Saturday morning. According to the timetable from Mountblow, it's 7:33 then 10:01 for City Centre 1Ds. Every single one in-between is Mountblow to Clydebank only.

For me, the main issues with the 1s are the A82 and how tight the timetable is between Clydebank and the City Centre. Yesterday I got a 1A that was 25 minutes late and it came with a 1B that was 35 minutes late and a 1 that was 15 minutes late. The problem is that the time of day doesn't matter when it comes to them being late either. It can happen at any time.

Does the 1 use much of the A82?

 

[PaulMc7]

Does the 1 use much of the A82?

The 1 and 1B don't use much of it but Dunglass Roundabout causes a lot of hold ups in both directions. The 1A uses a bit more of it due to it going through Bellsmyre by turning at Garshake Road.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

The 1 and 1B don't use much of it but Dunglass Roundabout causes a lot of hold ups in both directions. The 1A uses a bit more of it due to it going through Bellsmyre by turning at Garshake Road.

Thanks, surprised it causes many problems though as it's dual carriageway. Is it the traffic lights at Garshake that are the problem? The Dunglass roundabout could certainly be improved by perhaps introducing a bus lane to enter the A82 from Bowling especially with the redevelopment that's going on there. Don't know why it should cause much grief heading towards Glasgow though, slight hold up maybe but shouldn't be anything major but then I'm not down that way much so perhaps I'm not best placed to comment.

 

[PaulMc7]

Thanks, surprised it causes many problems though as it's dual carriageway. Is it the traffic lights at Garshake that are the problem? The Dunglass roundabout could certainly be improved by perhaps introducing a bus lane to enter the A82 from Bowling especially with the redevelopment that's going on there. Don't know why it should cause much grief heading towards Glasgow though, slight hold up maybe but shouldn't be anything major but then I'm not down that way much so perhaps I'm not best placed to comment.

It's the amount of cars that use the road more than anything that causes most of the issues but then as soon as the weather is bad it causes all sorts of issues on top of that. There are normally queues of cars on Glasgow Road towards Glasgow a lot of the time too which adds to the mess. Ideally if it could be done, a second road is badly needed but it's probably unlikely.

The A82 was shut towards Old Kilpatrick from Dunglass Roundabout due to a landslip recently for example and on that day, First had to tell passengers to use any bus into Dumbarton because some were cut to Balloch/Helensburgh to Dumbarton only.

The ones on that day that did run into Glasgow were sometimes 90-120 minutes late by the time they got into the city centre.

I've not been down that way for a while but it is a road I've always heard drivers moan about on a fairly regular basis.

It's also why I'm surprised that any interworking happens at all between the Dumbarton buses and the 1C because it results in the 1C becoming so unreliable at certain times too and on a Sunday there can be times with 2 or 3 1Cs in close proximity due to the buses being late from Balloch and Helensburgh.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

It's the amount of cars that use the road more than anything that causes most of the issues but then as soon as the weather is bad it causes all sorts of issues on top of that. There are normally queues of cars on Glasgow Road towards Glasgow a lot of the time too which adds to the mess. Ideally if it could be done, a second road is badly needed but it's probably unlikely.

The A82 was shut towards Old Kilpatrick from Dunglass Roundabout due to a landslip recently for example and on that day, First had to tell passengers to use any bus into Dumbarton because some were cut to Balloch/Helensburgh to Dumbarton only.

The ones on that day that did run into Glasgow were sometimes 90-120 minutes late by the time they got into the city centre.

I've not been down that way for a while but it is a road I've always heard drivers moan about on a fairly regular basis.

It's also why I'm surprised that any interworking happens at all between the Dumbarton buses and the 1C because it results in the 1C becoming so unreliable at certain times too and on a Sunday there can be times with 2 or 3 1Cs in close proximity due to the buses being late from Balloch and Helensburgh.

A relief road using the derelict railway line would be the answer but in today's economic climate that's never going to happen. I remember about 40 years ago there were proposals to build a road running along the riverside parallel to the A814 between Clydebank, Scotstoun and Partick eventually connecting to the expressway using part of this railway line which would have solved a lot of the traffic problems in Glasgow/Dumbarton Road but this ran into a lot of protests from the anti-car factions and was quietly dropped and the land has now been used for housing. Imagine that had been built, it would have been a godsend.

Just had a look online at this development, looks like they might be putting a new road in

Former oil terminal in Bowling gets green light for redevelopment

Glasgow City Region City Deal project will see the ExxonMobil site transformed into a mixed-use development

www.insider.co.uk

 

[PaulMc7]

The SPT related changes for the 4th of February are now registered:

• PM0000001/626 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Bearsden Road, Anniesland to Partick Bus Station
  Service number: M4
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000006/366 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Wiahaw General Hospital to Larkhall via Waterloo, Overtown
  Service number: 251
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000006/278 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Wishaw General Hospital to Larkhall via Waterloo Overtown
  Service number: 251
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000006/277 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Forgewood to North Lodge via Mothwerwell
  Service number: 244
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000006/431 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Law Village to Wishaw General Hospital via Wishaw
  Service number: 210
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000001/665 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Govan Bus Station to Govan Bus Station via Partick, Springburn, Parkhead, Rutherglen
  Service number: 189 (190)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000006/270 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Parkside or Coltness to Pather or Netherton via Wishaw
  Service number: 193 (93)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000001/628 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Mosspark, Ashdale Drive to Oswald Street, Glasgow via Dumbreck
  Service number: 59
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000001/627 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Govan Bus Station to Southpark Village via Pollok, Silverburn, South Nitshill
  Service number: 49
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

 

[Rory N]

YX72 OJO has arrived at Caledonia. It is an E400 MMC and replaces 32657 which burned down at Glasgow Fort about 2 years ago. It will probably be the last E400 MMC delivered to Glasgow.

 

[PaulMc7]

I know the above E400MMC is due to insurance but I do wonder if First should have made another mass order of E400MMCs before fully committing to electric and whether they would have gone down that route had Covid not happened. Obviously, Brexit has had more of an impact on driver numbers than Covid but it's interesting to try and picture what the network would have been like in Glasgow if everything carried on as normal.

I still think cuts would have been made to some services though just to try and get rid of some of the older buses.

 

[voidwxrranty]

The SPT related changes for the 4th of February are now registered:

• PM0000001/626 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Bearsden Road, Anniesland to Partick Bus Station
  Service number: M4
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000006/366 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Wiahaw General Hospital to Larkhall via Waterloo, Overtown
  Service number: 251
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000006/278 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Wishaw General Hospital to Larkhall via Waterloo Overtown
  Service number: 251
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000006/277 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Forgewood to North Lodge via Mothwerwell
  Service number: 244
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000006/431 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Law Village to Wishaw General Hospital via Wishaw
  Service number: 210
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000001/665 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Govan Bus Station to Govan Bus Station via Partick, Springburn, Parkhead, Rutherglen
  Service number: 189 (190)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000006/270 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Parkside or Coltness to Pather or Netherton via Wishaw
  Service number: 193 (93)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000001/628 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Mosspark, Ashdale Drive to Oswald Street, Glasgow via Dumbreck
  Service number: 59
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

• PM0000001/627 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Govan Bus Station to Southpark Village via Pollok, Silverburn, South Nitshill
  Service number: 49
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 04 Feb 2023

What are these changes for? apologies, i’m a bit out the loop when it comes to the SPT tenders

 

[PaulMc7]

What are these changes for? apologies, i’m a bit out the loop when it comes to the SPT tenders

First had subcontracted some of them due to the driver shortages (I'm not 100% sure on all of them) and are now handing them back earlier than the contract end dates. There was a list of them previously discussed in the thread.

 

[voidwxrranty]

First had subcontracted some of them due to the driver shortages (I'm not 100% sure on all of them) and are now handing them back earlier than the contract end dates. There was a list of them previously discussed in the thread.

Ah, yes i have read, the 189/190’s weren’t contracted out, but, as someone who can say they (semi-frequently use the 189/190) it’ll be weird to see it go, not hearing an E300 zoom by every night

 

[PaulMc7]

Ah, yes i have read, the 189/190’s weren’t contracted out, but, as someone who can say they (semi-frequently use the 189/190) it’ll be weird to see it go, not hearing an E300 zoom by every night

I used them a couple of times and unlike a lot of SPT services they were actually quite busy. It's just very unfortunate with the current driver situation that SPT tenders need to be thrown aside for First's commercial routes as some of them worked out okay for journeys I sometimes make. I'm surprised that there hasn't been any changes to the commercial services though although that could still happen at some point.

 

[voidwxrranty]

I used them a couple of times and unlike a lot of SPT services they were actually quite busy. It's just very unfortunate with the current driver situation that SPT tenders need to be thrown aside for First's commercial routes as some of them worked out okay for journeys I sometimes make. I'm surprised that there hasn't been any changes to the commercial services though although that could still happen at some point.

It makes commuting from say Springburn-Rutherglen easier because you can avoid the city centre, hopefully another operator takes the contract on though.

 

[SarahDFIG]

YX72 OJO has arrived at Caledonia. It is an E400 MMC and replaces 32657 which burned down at Glasgow Fort about 2 years ago. It will probably be the last E400 MMC delivered to Glasgow.

32657 was burnt in Caledonia depot. You are correct that this vehicle replaces this. The bus damaged at Glasgow Fort is/was being rebuilt I believe.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

YX72 OJO has arrived at Caledonia. It is an E400 MMC and replaces 32657 which burned down at Glasgow Fort about 2 years ago. It will probably be the last E400 MMC delivered to Glasgow.

It looks the same length as the 77 branded E400MMCs. Perhaps it’ll move over to Scotstoun and allow 34361 to return to Caledonia.

 

[route101]

With a VX72 number plate should be easier to spot!

Sampled some buses yesterday. Double Deckers are back on the 201. The evening service on the 267 out of Glasgow was terrible, E200MMC packed with people complaining they have been waiting an hour.

 

[PaulMc7]

With a VX72 number plate should be easier to spot!

Sampled some buses yesterday. Double Deckers are back on the 201. The evening service on the 267 out of Glasgow was terrible, E200MMC packed with people complaining they have been waiting an hour.

There seems to be a lot of cancellations around in the evening now and tracking issues on the app haven't helped this week. It seems to be working a bit better today but yesterday, certain services wouldn't show on the map at all despite some running. The 3 and 6 in particular were bad for it.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

With a VX72 number plate should be easier to spot!

Sampled some buses yesterday. Double Deckers are back on the 201. The evening service on the 267 out of Glasgow was terrible, E200MMC packed with people complaining they have been waiting an hour.

If it's running about with a VX no plate someone should be disciplined

 

[Murray J]

If it's running about with a VX no plate someone should be disciplined

It's a YX72 plate, VX is a typo.