First Greater Glasgow

[Joerf21]

I don't have it at the top of my head but the 6, 8 and 90 are definitely 3 of them. The 201 is also over 2 hours long. The 60 might be another. The likes of the 1, 1A, 1B, 2, 7A and 240 aren't miles off either.

We have an awkward setup here where a lot of routes were cut in length with Simplicity and other changes but there are still a fair load of 80-100 minute routes in length.

Thanks, will be watching how electrics do on them

 

[PaulMc7]

Thanks, will be watching how electrics do on them

At the weekend, it's quite common to get an electric double decker on the 60 and with Scotstoun getting electric singles in 2023, it'll be interesting to see how long it takes them to stray from the 2 and 3.

I do wonder when Overtown, Blantyre and Dumbarton will get the facilities for electric vehicles. So far on here there is nothing rumoured but with First you just never know.

Going by the cancellations seemingly dropping a bit at Scotstoun too I wouldn't rule out them having enough drivers to cover everything by the time the electric buses get there. Caledonia is the only one I see being a big struggle for the foreseeable although the early part of the week is improving slowly but surely. Capacity as well as range will be a big issue with the electric vehicles although it's the double decker ones that have a bigger drop in capacity compared to diesel options here currently.

 

[lastbus]

At the weekend, it's quite common to get an electric double decker on the 60 and with Scotstoun getting electric singles in 2023, it'll be interesting to see how long it takes them to stray from the 2 and 3.

I do wonder when Overtown, Blantyre and Dumbarton will get the facilities for electric vehicles. So far on here there is nothing rumoured but with First you just never know.

Going by the cancellations seemingly dropping a bit at Scotstoun too I wouldn't rule out them having enough drivers to cover everything by the time the electric buses get there. Caledonia is the only one I see being a big struggle for the foreseeable although the early part of the week is improving slowly but surely. Capacity as well as range will be a big issue with the electric vehicles although it's the double decker ones that have a bigger drop in capacity compared to diesel options here currently.

Given First don’t own Overtown depot then I don’t think it will ever go electric. I believe Blantyre is the next depot to go electric after Scotstoun.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I wonder if there will be any aim to electrify the Lanarkshire local services with either E200EVs or E100EVs. Especially if the rumours are true that the E200MMCs are to be cascaded down South.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I wonder if there will be any aim to electrify the Lanarkshire local services with either E200EVs or E100EVs. Especially if the rumours are true that the E200MMCs are to be cascaded down South.

They’re not rumors those are the current plans

 

[PaulMc7]

Are there any services expected to increase in frequency when resources allow for that? I've been pleasantly surprised by how much the passenger loads have been growing by across the network.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

They’re not rumors those are the current plans

Manchester I believe these are off if I'm correct in thinking that.

 

[lastbus]

They’re not rumors those are the current plans

They are going “if” First win a contract they are in for in Manchester.

 

[Rory N]

They’re not rumors those are the current plans

Do you know exactly what E200 MMCs that are supposed to be going down south?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Do you know exactly what E200 MMCs that are supposed to be going down south?

Based on the internal document:

9 B9TLs (37238-45 & 37278) to South West
9 E400MMCs (33431-35/39-42) to Essex
16 Enviro200MMCs (44663-78) to Manchester
9 Enviro300s (67806-14) to Aberdeen
51 Enviro300s (67833-883) to return off lease
16 Enviro200MMCs (67020-35) to Manchester

 

[Transco]

Based on the internal document:

9 B9TLs (37238-45 & 37278) to South West
9 E400MMCs (33431-35/39-42) to Essex
16 Enviro200MMCs (44663-78) to Manchester
9 Enviro300s (67806-14) to Aberdeen
51 Enviro300s (67833-883) to return off lease
16 Enviro200MMCs (67020-35) to Manchester

Does this internal document show what will replace 44663-44678 at Overtown if they go?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

That pretty much wipes out all the E200MMCs which were new to Glasgow in 2018. I get as more new stuff moves into Glasgow, newer stuff has to move out but that’s a large chunk of Blantyre/Overtown’s fleet. Not to mention all the E300s that will be leaving Dumbarton.

 

[Volvodart]

Based on the document referred to above, there are 18, I think, E200s coming in to be held in reserve, at present. Also diesel 34402 is coming should be this month.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Based on the internal document:

9 B9TLs (37238-45 & 37278) to South West
9 E400MMCs (33431-35/39-42) to Essex
16 Enviro200MMCs (44663-78) to Manchester
9 Enviro300s (67806-14) to Aberdeen
51 Enviro300s (67833-883) to return off lease
16 Enviro200MMCs (67020-35) to Manchester

You live and learn - didn't know some of the e300s were leased.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Based on the document referred to above, there are 18, I think, E200s coming in to be held in reserve, at present. Also diesel 34402 is coming should be this month.

Presumably 34402 is an insurance replacement to one of the E400MMCs lost to a thermal incident.

You live and learn - didn't know some of the e300s were leased.

Nor did I - although they have leased buses in the past. Notably the Nordics and Enviro500s the latter of which were later bought outright, if I'm not mistaken some Geminis were originally leased too?

 

[Joerf21]

That pretty much wipes out all the E200MMCs which were new to Glasgow in 2018. I get as more new stuff moves into Glasgow, newer stuff has to move out but that’s a large chunk of Blantyre/Overtown’s fleet. Not to mention all the E300s that will be leaving Dumbarton.

If dumbartons E200s go then what would they get as replacement, as that is the bulk of their fleet

 

[PaulMc7]

It'll be interesting to see what Dumbarton ends up with considering that the 1s have really only seen E300s since they've been a service other than the beginning of Covid when capacity was limited and then the occasional older bus on peak runs.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

If dumbartons E200s go then what would they get as replacement, as that is the bulk of their fleet

From the list it’s mainly 13/63 plates going but that’s still quite a chunk of Dumbarton’s fleet. I assume the remainder of Scotstoun’s E300s will cascade to Dumbarton but in all honestly Dumbarton could be doing with some new or refurbished stock.

 

[Whiteway215]

Based on the internal document:

9 B9TLs (37238-45 & 37278) to South West
9 E400MMCs (33431-35/39-42) to Essex
16 Enviro200MMCs (44663-78) to Manchester
9 Enviro300s (67806-14) to Aberdeen
51 Enviro300s (67833-883) to return off lease
16 Enviro200MMCs (67020-35) to Manchester

I would have thought Worcester would have benefited from some of these to replace their thirsty Citaros.

 

[PaulMc7]

From the list it’s mainly 13/63 plates going but that’s still quite a chunk of Dumbarton’s fleet. I assume the remainder of Scotstoun’s E300s will cascade to Dumbarton but in all honestly Dumbarton could be doing with some new or refurbished stock.

The seats are especially bad on E300s now to be honest. The E400s are the same too. It's actually quite rare to get one of either bus that's actually in a decent condition.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The seats are especially bad on E300s now to be honest. The E400s are the same too. It's actually quite rare to get one of either bus that's actually in a decent condition.

The E300s and E400s are good buses. They’d really benefit from an internal refurb to make them as good as new.

 

[cnjb8]

Based on the internal document:

9 B9TLs (37238-45 & 37278) to South West
9 E400MMCs (33431-35/39-42) to Essex
16 Enviro200MMCs (44663-78) to Manchester
9 Enviro300s (67806-14) to Aberdeen
51 Enviro300s (67833-883) to return off lease
16 Enviro200MMCs (67020-35) to Manchester

I guess those 9 E300s for Aberdeen are to replace the E200MMCs?

 

[EMU303]

Based on the internal document:

9 B9TLs (37238-45 & 37278) to South West
9 E400MMCs (33431-35/39-42) to Essex
16 Enviro200MMCs (44663-78) to Manchester
9 Enviro300s (67806-14) to Aberdeen
51 Enviro300s (67833-883) to return off lease
16 Enviro200MMCs (67020-35) to Manchester

Excuse my ignorance, but is this the current stream of EV that FG is receiving that means these can be released, or a combination of current EV influx and next years intake of 50? 110 buses moving out is quite a move.

 

[Volvodart]

The total above accounts for all buses ordered including 2023 delivery.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2022 ==

I guess those 9 E300s for Aberdeen are to replace the E200MMCs?

No the Euro 4s that did not have the exhaust modifications.

 

[Rory N]

Based on the internal document:

9 B9TLs (37238-45 & 37278) to South West
9 E400MMCs (33431-35/39-42) to Essex
16 Enviro200MMCs (44663-78) to Manchester
9 Enviro300s (67806-14) to Aberdeen
51 Enviro300s (67833-883) to return off lease
16 Enviro200MMCs (67020-35) to Manchester

Thanks for that. Do you by any chance know when the first of these will be going?

 

[PaulMc7]

The other thing that can sway vehicle requirements is service changes and 2023 will be a big year for them, depending on how well the driver shortage is dealt with. If it goes well we might need more vehicles but if First begin to lose a lot of drivers again, cuts will be following very quickly behind that.

So far, First actually seem to be doing alright at getting new staff in and it shows in the number of cancellations getting a bit lower each week, although Fridays and Saturdays seem to be a bigger struggle than the rest of the week.

Caledonia is the key depot in all of this though. It's the one struggling the most with driver shortages but if it can be fixed then First should be fine. The other depots all seem to be improving too at a quicker pace than Caledonia is.

They are definitely trying to get more too with more effort being put into it. There have been a lot of recruitment events for hiring drivers lately.

 

[WestieBus]

Does anyone have an idea to why First vehicles don't track in Scotland on bustimes.org?

 

[Volvodart]

Thanks for that. Do you by any chance know when the first of these will be going?

The way the form was laid out, South West should be when the current double decker order comes, with Essex and Aberdeen when the 50 single deckers order arrives, although the person responsible for transfers at First Bus said that this plan had changed.

 

[smtglasgow]

The other thing that can sway vehicle requirements is service changes and 2023 will be a big year for them

I struggle to see First having any big changes for a while yet. *If* the driver situation improves I guess we’ll see incremental changes – one service at a time – with frequencies boosted. But when you think of the routes that need extra capacity – I’m thinking 3, 6, 18 and 75 at least – that’s a lot of drivers.

Hopefully at some point they can look at running times as well. The amount of bunching and late running is a joke – I waited 40 minutes in the bus station for a 240 earlier. The first bus that arrived left out of service because it was 55 minutes late!

 

[PaulMc7]

I struggle to see First having any big changes for a while yet. *If* the driver situation improves I guess we’ll see incremental changes – one service at a time – with frequencies boosted. But when you think of the routes that need extra capacity – I’m thinking 3, 6, 18 and 75 at least – that’s a lot of drivers.

Hopefully at some point they can look at running times as well. The amount of bunching and late running is a joke – I waited 40 minutes in the bus station for a 240 earlier. The first bus that arrived left out of service because it was 55 minutes late!

I fully agree regarding the 3. They've all been full or close to it lately when I've used them. Running times is a far trickier one because there is far less they can do about it due to how many cars are on the road. The problem is that the council and government get away with avoiding criticism because everyone wrongly assumes First can do something about it.

I had someone try to phone me for a fight through messenger a few months back because their partner complained about the 2 being late and I told them about roadworks on the route causing lateness. I wouldn't be surprised if First reconsidered their social media approach as people are beginning to get more nasty in their complaints.