First Greater Glasgow

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Yes I don’t think the Geminis or Eclipses have ever received a proper refresh. It’s the same interior from when I was younger.

One thing I don’t like on the Eclipses are those hideous blue adverts all over the saloon.

A relatively cheap way to “try” and advertise your services.

Being a regular user of the EVs on the 9s there's still issues even with new buses such as panels not screwed in properly after maintenance

This is true, it has been found that the flat strip that lays at the bottom of the side windows facing towards the interior has became loose through the bus hitting ruts & potholes, the fitment being poor on the single decker EV’s.

The cooling fans on the B7TL and fan belt screech are just noises the bus makes that you’ll hear on the same vehicle makes right across the country, they’re nothing to do with poor maintenance by First Glasgow

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Apr 2022 ==


The OP mentioned it was one of the old Eclipses not an EV

I’ll apologise in advance, The words of enthusiasts…

Any B7TL, given there age, the screeching belts are due to either the belt itself becoming “stretched” due to age not to mention a belt pulley or tensioner becoming seized or just weak.

An engine belt screeching is not normal & can be sorted.

 

[Stan Drews]

The cooling fans on the B7TL and fan belt screech are just noises the bus makes that you’ll hear on the same vehicle makes right across the country, they’re nothing to do with poor maintenance by First Glasgow

It may well be quite common, but it’s still down to poor/lack of maintenance. A quote from another forum from 2007, provides what I understand to be the basic issue… “the main culprit of noisy B7TL's is the engine cooling fan motor which is hydraulically driven and has a built in temperature sensor. The sensor fails causing the fan to run at max speed even when cold hence the noise.”

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

The OP mentioned it was one of the old Eclipses not an EV

Yes but the op mentioned his hope that maintenance was better on the newer buses and my comment was that there are maintaince issues on even the newest buses that seem to be caused by sheer laziness

 

[LT02 NVV]

I seen a response on Twitter regarding the 60/M60 regarding the need for the M60 as the 60 covers most of it and it made me wonder if the following would work especially as the 60 is predominantly double decker:

60-Clydebank to Easterhouse every 20 mins
60A-Milngavie to City Centre every 30 mins
M60-Axed

It kinda reverts to the 40/119 type format but on a slightly lower scale. I sense another reduction of some sort given how littered with cancellations the 60/60A/61 seem to be on a daily basis even on lower frequencies than pre-covid.

I've suggested similar with the 7/7A before too for balancing out the timetable while shortening one variant. For me, when there's multiple services that follow a similar core route section that's where the cuts should be made. Areas with 1 bus that isn't as frequent is when it becomes an issue although to be fair reductions would probably be accepted just now if it meant less buses failing to turn up.

The M60 is much more frequent than the 60 between Clydebank & Drumchapel, so axing it would mean that the only First Glasgow service between Drumchapel & Clydebank would only run every 20 minutes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Apr 2022 ==

For me it's not even so much the age of any particular vehicle but the fact that First Glasgow doesn't seem to bother with any kind of mid life interior refurb and hence their fleet looks run down far sooner than it ought to. Take the B7 Geminis for example. I can't recall them ever getting any kind of interior refresh whatsoever (apart from perhaps having a damaged seat cover replaced ect). The Eclipse single deckers seem equally as run down.
A few days ago I travelled into town on a B7 Gemini operated service 19 and got a 9/9A branded service 87 home and the condition of these vehicles was somewhat shocking. The seat covers on both where practically threadbare, the moquette was all mismatched, and the noise that they where making was truly horrendous (the usual fan howl on the 19 and a loose fan belt type screech on the 87).
I would like to think that maintenance practices at First Glasgow where slowly improving and that the B9's and Enviros will be better looked after than their predecessors. Judging by the condition of some of the Enviro 300's I am not so sure that is the case though.

32626 (SF54 TMV) got a full seat re-trim sometime ago, and it’s honesty much nicer to be on. It’s the only B7tl I can think of getting a complete re-trim.

 

[Volvodart]

Some of the Volvo B7RLEs were done too.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

I will categorically not defend any operator on their maintenance regimes, it's just one area where money can be saved and also an area where individual engineers are sloppy with their own standards.

First are an odd company when it comes to their maintenance spend. A few years ago I was supplying a part for the Dennis Trident to every operator - big and small - except First. The original part had been discontinued and I got a replacement manufactured and became the only supplier of it in the world. ADL specified a conversion kit which cost around £1500.00 but my alternative was £425.00 and was a direct fit. Despite the cost difference First wouldn't buy it. Stagecoach alone bought over 100 of them from me saving themselves over £100k.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

First’s vehicles could be much nicer with a mid life refurbishment. The refurb that was done on the 61 branded B9TLs brought them up as good as new. It seems they don’t want to spend money refurbing the buses until they really have to and people complain about it. A B7RLE was refurbed in Aberdeen because its shabby appearance was picked up on by passengers.

If they had a programme to refurb their buses mid life they could last so much longer but they don’t. Some of the B7RLEs were in horrible condition before being withdrawn and some continue on with threadbare seats. I noticed FSE retrimmed some of them when they passed over a few months back but this should have been done in Glasgow years ago.

 

[Busman84]

It may well be quite common, but it’s still down to poor/lack of maintenance. A quote from another forum from 2007, provides what I understand to be the basic issue… “the main culprit of noisy B7TL's is the engine cooling fan motor which is hydraulically driven and has a built in temperature sensor. The sensor fails causing the fan to run at max speed even when cold hence the noise.”

It may well be quite common, but it’s still down to poor/lack of maintenance. A quote from another forum from 2007, provides what I understand to be the basic issue… “the main culprit of noisy B7TL's is the engine cooling fan motor which is hydraulically driven and has a built in temperature sensor. The sensor fails causing the fan to run at max speed even when cold hence the noise.”

This was why TFL banned new Volvo’s entering service due to the B7TL fan issue. TFL were bombarded with complaints due to the noise particularly during the summer months with buses roaring down roads right through the night on 24hr/nightbuses.
That’s why the earliest B9TLs are Gemini 2s (59 plates) due to the ban on Volvos from 2006.. The companies with the B7TLs had to get new fan blades due to this issue and Volvo were told the B9TLs better be ok or they won’t be entering service in London. Arriva appeared to get B7TLs nationwide fixed. First only done the London buses and didn’t bother about outside of London.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Perhaps with Duncan Cameron now in place as managing director for First Scotland we'll maybe see a refurb program in the near future? When he was MD for First Aberdeen around 1/3rd of the fleet went to Thornton Brothers and had extensive interior refurbishments with all the interior fittings being repainted, new seats and new engine insulation among other things, the B7RLEs also had the interior lights changed to LEDs, improved brakes and next stop announcements.

A B7RLE was refurbed in Aberdeen because its shabby appearance was picked up on by passengers.

It was only picked up as an "industry insider" tweeted directly to the MD about it, at that point it had significant oil stains and bubbling to the rear panels while the interior was damp and mouldy, even then said vehicle (69124) was withdrawn and converted in to a trainer 18 months later, meanwhile it's very shabby sister vehicle (69123) is still in frontline service with it's original 16 year old seats and hasn't had a repaint since August 2012... The thing is they've shown they can do it before, the entire Aberdeen B10BLE fleet had the interiors retrimmed in 2018.

 

[route101]

Talking about how First is slacking on maintenance levels, how's this for public service buses in Clydebank today? I saw a 1 livery on a 6, a 2 livery on a 6 , a 77 livery on a 1, and a 77 livery on a 2. A great way to confuse the public lol

The 2 branded E300s on the 6 are pretty much a permanent fixture now. I did notice a E400MMC on the 18 that has been debranded leaving only the red base.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Apr 2022 ==

Some of the Volvo B7RLEs were done too.

Yes, plus the eclipses from down south with the e leather seats.

 

[PaulMc7]

The M60 is much more frequent than the 60 between Clydebank & Drumchapel, so axing it would mean that the only First Glasgow service between Drumchapel & Clydebank would only run every 20 minutes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Apr 2022 ==


32626 (SF54 TMV) got a full seat re-trim sometime ago, and it’s honesty much nicer to be on. It’s the only B7tl I can think of getting a complete re-trim.

Which given that the M60 isn't that busy off peak would be completely fine IMO plus the additional capacity would be there as the 60 is predominantly double decker.

First need to get realistic with what they can run very quickly or they'll lose more passengers permanently.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I did notice a E400MMC on the 18 that has been debranded leaving only the red base.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Apr 2022 ==

None have been debranded. 33259 has a plain red front from an RTC and the branding was never reapplied, same with 33268 after its bridge strike

32626 (SF54 TMV) got a full seat re-trim sometime ago, and it’s honesty much nicer to be on. It’s the only B7tl I can think of getting a complete re-trim.

Some of the Blantyre 53 plates got the refurb too. A lot of the ones without seat retrims look better than 32626 as that seat trim fades a lot quicker than the older trim

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Think there needs to be someone at Buchanan Bus Station doing some regulation on the 9/A as again today 4 consecutive 9As from town failed to operate during morning peak. This is becoming increasingly common through out the day. With multiple 9As not operating,essentially cutting Penilee off and making travel from Paisley rd to Penilee and Braehead impossible.

 

[LT02 NVV]

It was every 15 minutes when it ran all the way out to Cumbernauld many moons ago.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33321...photolist-2j5ke65-fsgVfw-bqsDbe-eawE58-EWqfVP

Not my photo and credit to the photographer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Apr 2022 ==


I remember many things that happened in the 70s/80/90s but I have absolutely no recollection of a 92 or 159.

Yes, it did use to Cumbernauld, I found another photo of an 11 Service in Cumbernauld from the old Strathclyde days: https://victoryguy.smugmug.com/Strathclyde-Buses-Volvo/i-SLfqTrv/A

 

[PaulMc7]

Think there needs to be someone at Buchanan Bus Station doing some regulation on the 9/A as again today 4 consecutive 9As from town failed to operate during morning peak. This is becoming increasingly common through out the day. With multiple 9As not operating,essentially cutting Penilee off and making travel from Paisley rd to Penilee and Braehead impossible.

First need to just drop to what they can run to be fair. The 9s have always been dreadful but the current situation is bothering everyone and will only make First lose loads of passengers soon if it's not changed.

It feels like they're trying to make changes less often but in reality nothing has changed at all since March 13th when the last Caley focused changes were made regarding services that operate of it. Most of them seem to have a lot of issues. The 60/60A are individually every 30 mins and have buses missing every day.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Yes, it did use to Cumbernauld, I found another photo of an 11 Service in Cumbernauld from the old Strathclyde days: https://victoryguy.smugmug.com/Strathclyde-Buses-Volvo/i-SLfqTrv/A

Out of interest what would have been the running time for that service terminus to terminus.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

First need to just drop to what they can run to be fair. The 9s have always been dreadful but the current situation is bothering everyone and will only make First lose loads of passengers soon if it's not changed.

It feels like they're trying to make changes less often but in reality nothing has changed at all since March 13th when the last Caley focused changes were made regarding services that operate of it. Most of them seem to have a lot of issues. The 60/60A are individually every 30 mins and have buses missing every day.

The 9A does seem to somehow be the worst despite the interworking, have heard several people wonder if the 9 is getting priority as there's competition in that bit with McGill's

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Out of interest what would have been the running time for that service terminus to terminus.

I reckon it was 2 hours end to end. If it was still running today it would take over 30 minutes additional time as road traffic has increased since then and the reduction of some speed limits.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Apr 2022 ==

Yes, it did use to Cumbernauld, I found another photo of an 11 Service in Cumbernauld from the old Strathclyde days: https://victoryguy.smugmug.com/Strathclyde-Buses-Volvo/i-SLfqTrv/A

Lots of fantastic photos on that site with 11s to Cumbernauld, 39 to Bridge of Weir and 62 to Airdrie. The AH Volvo Citybuses which were the preferred type on these mid-distance routes as they were terrific machines and their performance would put the likes of the Volvo B7tl or Dennis Trident to shame which replaced them around 2005/06.

 

[92002]

Which given that the M60 isn't that busy off peak would be completely fine IMO plus the additional capacity would be there as the 60 is predominantly double decker.

First need to get realistic with what they can run very quickly or they'll lose more passengers permanently.

Travelled on a mid morning M60 today with standing room only.

 

[mb3]

Talking about how First is slacking on maintenance levels, how's this for public service buses in Clydebank today? I saw a 1 livery on a 6, a 2 livery on a 6 , a 77 livery on a 1, and a 77 livery on a 2. A great way to confuse the public lol

If passengers are unable to read the front destination screen then that seems to be their own problem. However that is the problem with route branding, they tend to drift onto other routes making the branding seem a bit pointless

Travelled on a mid morning M60 today with standing room only.

aye the M60 is handy wee service for passengers between Drumchapel and Clydebank. Fairly well used and see no need for it to be withdrawn. Used it for 6 years as my old school is on the route and it was packed every morning and afternoon. So in my opinion it’s an important service.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

If passengers are unable to read the front destination screen then that seems to be their own problem. However that is the problem with route branding, they tend to drift onto other routes making the branding seem a bit pointless

aye the M60 is handy wee service for passengers between Drumchapel and Clydebank. Fairly well used and see no need for it to be withdrawn. Used it for 6 years as my old school is on the route and it was packed every morning and afternoon. So in my opinion it’s an important service.

Silly me, I didn't realise that having perfect vision was a requirement to catch a bus.

Can we also make it a requirement that every destination screen has to be in perfect working order and that two buses don't arrive at a stop at the same time so that the destination screen on the second bus is fully visible to any waiting passengers.

 

[92002]

Silly me, I didn't realise that having perfect vision was a requirement to catch a bus.

Can we also make it a requirement that every destination screen has to be in perfect working order and that two buses don't arrive at a stop at the same time so that the destination screen on the second bus is fully visible to any waiting passengers.

You should get a job in customer services.

One thing that's needed on these sunny days is an update in destination screens to the white on black screens fitted to the recent arrivals. They are much easier to read in these Summer Days. The earlier ones are near to impossible when the sun shines.

 

[stevenedin]

Once the fleet is replaced naturally the old orange and green screens will disappear.

 

[Brimfulofasha]

Think there needs to be someone at Buchanan Bus Station doing some regulation on the 9/A as again today 4 consecutive 9As from town failed to operate during morning peak. This is becoming increasingly common through out the day. With multiple 9As not operating,essentially cutting Penilee off and making travel from Paisley rd to Penilee and Braehead impossible.

I had a similar recent experience on the 87, waited for a full hour while numerous 88/89s ran as normal. It was a busy Saturday early evening. Also made the mistake of activating a single ticket on the app, which expired - a waste of £2.10! Although one eventually arrived, it didn't even do a quick turnaround, so another remaining passenger and I (most had transferred to the 88) walked to Cathedral Street to get the 57. Activated another ticket like an idiot, and the 57 drove past us full! (I eventually got the next one just before it expired) Customers have very little recourse - I tried querying 2 different drivers (88 and X87), one was very defensive stating I'd need to find an inspector!

 

[92002]

Once the fleet is replaced naturally the old orange and green screens will disappear.

Which could be a couple of years away. So not really a solution.

 

[stevenedin]

Which could be a couple of years away. So not really a solution.

The brightness can be turned up on them. It’s been seen before some screens are brighter than others.

 

[route101]

Once the fleet is replaced naturally the old orange and green screens will disappear.

Is there any flipdot screens left in the First Glasgow fleet? The last buses to feature this were the 53 plate B7TLs. They were heard to read even close up.

The white lettering/numbering on the E400cityevs appears bolder.

 

[stevenedin]

Is there any flipdot screens left in the First Glasgow fleet? The last buses to feature this were the 53 plate B7TLs. They were heard to read even close up.

The white lettering/numbering on the E400cityevs appears bolder.

I saw one a month or so ago but I’m not sure if it’s been withdrawn now. Not the best image but it’s in the distance.

 

[92002]

The brightness can be turned up on them. It’s been seen before some screens are brighter than others.

Think that probably achieved by cleaning the display during vehicle overhaul. They do not appear to think the issue is important.

 

[PaulMc7]

I can confirm as someone with eyesight that isn't great even having the same type of buses on routes that cover the same stops can be an absolute nightmare in the sun. I've almost got the wrong bus a few times thinking an E300 was a 1 and it turns out that the 1, 2 and 6 all come together.

It's going to be worse now given that the 6 is full of 2 branded E300s