First Greater Glasgow

[PaulMc7]

First services are due to return to Pre covid schedules from next week. Although still with limited capacity.

Yeah that's what I'm referring to. Would expect limited capacity to be in place til the funding stops in November

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Would expect limited capacity to be in place til the funding stops in November

The limited capacity will be in place until the Scottish Government decide that the virus is suppressed enough to remove the physical distancing measures in place. That could be months yet.

 

[PaulMc7]

The limited capacity will be in place until the Scottish Government decide that the virus is suppressed enough to remove the physical distancing measures in place. That could be months yet.

As much as I'm a fan of the Scottish government it needs to be sooner rather than later if funding stops. Without going off topic because it's been discussed in covid forums to death once demand hits half capacity it'll cause a world of problems for First here with complaints etc let alone financial impact

The only thing that could maybe lead to cuts being avoided is if First can secure a sale of the US businesses and get a large chunk of money in for it although again that's probably for another forum.

 

[Zakforbes4]

I don't know if this is a bit off topic but I'm surprised the Dumbarton depot hasn't been shut due to how many buses it has are like 20

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As much as I'm a fan of the Scottish government it needs to be sooner rather than later if funding stops. Without going off topic because it's been discussed in covid forums to death once demand hits half capacity it'll cause a world of problems for First here with complaints etc let alone financial impact

The only thing that could maybe lead to cuts being avoided is if First can secure a sale of the US businesses and get a large chunk of money in for it although again that's probably for another forum.

The proceeds of any US sales will be used to pay down debt and provide some recompense to the shareholders. It won't be to prop up services in Greater Glasgow or anywhere else for that matter.

If the Scottish Government (or Westminster or any other devolved administrations) decide to put a cap on buses for social distancing whilst not providing assistance, you will see dozens of services scrapped. Hence we will see a continuation of funding IMO.

What you may also see is that the Glasgow LEZ to be pushed back, reducing the impact on bus companies (in terms of new vehicle investment) with overall reduced traffic and pollution being cited as the reason.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2020 ==

idk if this is a bit off topic but I'm surprised the Dumbarton depot hasn't been shut due to how many buses it has are like 20

Is that right? I know Covid times reduce things but I thought it had an allocation of about 60?

 

[PaulMc7]

idk if this is a bit off topic but I'm surprised the Dumbarton depot hasn't been shut due to how many buses it has are like 20

The 1s themselves are way more than 20 to be fair. I think it's also not a big loss maker because of the profit the 1s generate

 

[awsnews]

idk if this is a bit off topic but I'm surprised the Dumbarton depot hasn't been shut due to how many buses it has are like 20

Dumbarton is in the region of 50 vehicles.

 

[Zakforbes4]

I was just using 20 as a guess I didn’t know exactly how many

 

[route101]

Not been out an awful lot lately but when I have been the buses near where I stay have looked considerably busier and going by the app there's been a lot more "bus full" displayed than previous weeks. Do think the increases are needed to be fair

Was out today. Id say off peak is back to normal. Peak time loadings not on routes ive been on. Not seen any bus fulls of late.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2020 ==

There is a free link bus 398 that runs and is free if you have s train ticket

I just walk, usually quicker.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I was just using 20 as a guess I didn’t know exactly how many

The fleetlist would give a clearer indication of the size.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Perhaps unpopular opinion but I think FIG is too big and unorganised for the amount of branded buses they have. The fleet can be quite scattered over time which means buses are turning up on all different routes. I genuinely think having buses all in a uniform livery makes much more sense.

This has been magnified by the current pandemic and all the buses being moved around but honestly only a select few core routes should be branded if any.

 

[PaulMc7]

Perhaps unpopular opinion but I think FIG is too big and unorganised for the amount of branded buses they have. The fleet can be quite scattered over time which means buses are turning up on all different routes. I genuinely think having buses all in a uniform livery makes much more sense.

This has been magnified by the current pandemic and all the buses being moved around but honestly only a select few core routes should be branded if any.

I'm definitely in agreement of this to be fair. Unless it's being used in a major promotional sense for a service then I'm not a big fan of branding as much as we've had. The buses from the 75 pre-covid especially were pretty common on the 87/88/89 and the X3/X85/X87 too. As much as I think the livery is incredibly plain I also think too much branding doesn't help and actually takes away from the uniqueness of it. I get using it for express services as they're meant to stand out but I don't think anything else really needs it.

Promote services by other means and avoid having branding on virtually every new bus that's bought in

 

[Zakforbes4]

I'm definitely in agreement of this to be fair. Unless it's being used in a major promotional sense for a service then I'm not a big fan of branding as much as we've had. The buses from the 75 pre-covid especially were pretty common on the 87/88/89 and the X3/X85/X87 too. As much as I think the livery is incredibly plain I also think too much branding doesn't help and actually takes away from the uniqueness of it. I get using it for express services as they're meant to stand out but I don't think anything else really needs it.

Promote services by other means and avoid having branding on virtually every new bus that's bought in

Aye but it's cool having the biggest first operation lol

 

[ScotRail158725]

Perhaps unpopular opinion but I think FIG is too big and unorganised for the amount of branded buses they have. The fleet can be quite scattered over time which means buses are turning up on all different routes. I genuinely think having buses all in a uniform livery makes much more sense.

This has been magnified by the current pandemic and all the buses being moved around but honestly only a select few core routes should be branded if any.

other than 75 branded buses on Caledonia Express routes and 87/88/89s theres not too much branded buses straying off route. covid makes it look worse but when the new timetable kicks in i doubt it will be as bad

 

[JumpinTrainz]

other than 75 branded buses on Caledonia Express routes and 87/88/89s theres not too much branded buses straying off route. covid makes it look worse but when the new timetable kicks in i doubt it will be as bad

I disagree. The 38 branded buses were always off route as were the 75. First Glasgow are renown for their lack of management when it comes to keeping branded buses on their said route. It’s been happening since the overground days. That said they do have a rather large operation so I guess it’s only expected hence why I said branding doesn’t work for Glasgow.

 

[Zakforbes4]

I seen the other day a 240 bus on the M11 and the M60 someone has got a bit lost lol

 

[PaulMc7]

Been a 240 bus on the 11 when I've seen that a couple of times and the 71A has had quite the variation of buses since it's been a First bus. 34/34A branded bus the first time I seen it and the 2nd time was a 75 branded decker

 

[Jordan Adam]

Aye but it's cool having the biggest first operation lol

First West Yorkshire is larger.

 

[route101]

I seen the other day a 240 bus on the M11 and the M60 someone has got a bit lost lol

Yes, i have noticed that too. The bus is on loan.

 

[Zakforbes4]

First West Yorkshire is larger.

If you remove school routes is it?

 

[Jordan Adam]

If you remove school routes is it?

Probably. Glasgow is only about 830 vehicles, West Yorkshire if i'm not mistaken is well over 1,000.

 

[PaulMc7]

Will be interesting to see how reliability is after the changes over the weekend. Noticed where I stay that the 1s have generally been okay although today there's 1s here n there pretty late compared to the rest of the week. Pre-covid the 1s were strangely more reliable at peak times into Glasgow than off peak

Also one last note on branding. The 90 would be a great route for branding because of what the route involves.

Covers 3 of the 4 Glasgow football stadiums and doesn't go too far from the 4th(Firhill) as Bilsland Drive is just up from it and also covers 3 hospitals

 

[156478]

I disagree. The 38 branded buses were always off route as were the 75. First Glasgow are renown for their lack of management when it comes to keeping branded buses on their said route. It’s been happening since the overground days. That said they do have a rather large operation so I guess it’s only expected hence why I said branding doesn’t work for Glasgow.

These are still very new buses and they will want as much bang for the buck out of them. Buses are just like cars- as soon as you drive it off the forecourt its value drops but your have still paid up front for it and it has to be accounted for in the books through what is called "depreciation".

However it is always amusing to drive up the M80 and see all the yellow 75s heading to Cumbernauld and the Campsies and when driving around Glasgow its a fun game of "spot the branded bus well away from its intended route".

The usual problems of vandalism, breakdowns, MOTs and other operational problems will of course pop up and throw off allocations. But they have unfortunately got form, and a lot of it for branded buses turning up on routes they are not supposed to be on.

Other operators over the years I have read are very strict about branded buses being on the correct routes and I know of a few operators where very Senior management and/ or the MD find out every day if the wrong buses end up on the wrong route and they will want a very justifiable explanation. But then again none of those operators operate in such a harsh environment as Glasgow- so comparing one to another is a bit of a minefield.

But ultimately it is agreed, branded buses are a terrible idea for Glasgow. Glasgow needs one consistent brand and consistent quality. Remember the early years of First ownership where the fortunate people got the brand new Barbie buses and the rest got the red liveried dregs? Same applies today, but subtly different, the buses are almost all in the same livery but with branding and other bits and pieces but under the covers its still nice leather seats for some and threadbare fabric seats for the others.

 

[Jordan Adam]

These are still very new buses and they will want as much bang for the buck out of them. Buses are just like cars- as soon as you drive it off the forecourt its value drops but your have still paid up front for it and it has to be accounted for in the books through what is called "depreciation".

However it is always amusing to drive up the M80 and see all the yellow 75s heading to Cumbernauld and the Campsies and when driving around Glasgow its a fun game of "spot the branded bus well away from its intended route".

The usual problems of vandalism, breakdowns, MOTs and other operational problems will of course pop up and throw off allocations. But they have unfortunately got form, and a lot of it for branded buses turning up on routes they are not supposed to be on.

Other operators over the years I have read are very strict about branded buses being on the correct routes and I know of a few operators where very Senior management and/ or the MD find out every day if the wrong buses end up on the wrong route and they will want a very justifiable explanation. But then again none of those operators operate in such a harsh environment as Glasgow- so comparing one to another is a bit of a minefield.

But ultimately it is agreed, branded buses are a terrible idea for Glasgow. Glasgow needs one consistent brand and consistent quality. Remember the early years of First ownership where the fortunate people got the brand new Barbie buses and the rest got the red liveried dregs? Same applies today, but subtly different, the buses are almost all in the same livery but with branding and other bits and pieces but under the covers its still nice leather seats for some and threadbare fabric seats for the others.

Branded buses are not the issue, the issue is they branded too many. It was stupid branding the PVR of a service. Ideally you should only brand somewhere between 50% and 70% of the off peak vehicle requirement of a route, if a route requires 25 buses off peak brand 15 of them, not 25 like they did with the 75!

 

[92002]

Yes, i have noticed that too. The bus is on loan.

Think there probably is 3 or 4.on loan from Lanarkshire. They have been there a number of Months. However second hand Streeylites have now arrived. So perhaps the Lanarkshire loan will be getting sent back. With the new services timetable starting from today.

 

[tbtc]

The 90 would be a great route for branding because of what the route involves.

Covers 3 of the 4 Glasgow football stadiums and doesn't go too far from the 4th(Firhill) as Bilsland Drive is just up from it and also covers 3 hospitals

IIRC the 89/90 used to be a grey line on the Overground map, maybe twenty years ago, even though it was nowhere near frequent enough (Solos every twenty minutes?) - made sense as it provide orbital links to a lot of important places as you say - I think that First could do with promoting the "secondary" routes in a number of towns/cities - the networks look great for getting a bus to the centre and back home again for everyday commuters/shoppers etc, but if you need to do a rare trip like to a hospital then you might have no idea how to get there by bus.

 

[PaulMc7]

IIRC the 89/90 used to be a grey line on the Overground map, maybe twenty years ago, even though it was nowhere near frequent enough (Solos every twenty minutes?) - made sense as it provide orbital links to a lot of important places as you say - I think that First could do with promoting the "secondary" routes in a number of towns/cities - the networks look great for getting a bus to the centre and back home again for everyday commuters/shoppers etc, but if you need to do a rare trip like to a hospital then you might have no idea how to get there by bus.

The secondary routes definitely aren't known as well as they should be imo. Can think of plenty of occasions when I've been asked by people where such and such a place is or street and how to get there. Can count at least 4/5 for the 8 and 90 each as well as others

 

[Brimfulofasha]

I often pass the 90 in Springburn. I'm surprised there's continued demand for an outer circle, considering the majority of routes cut through the city centre or start/end there, but it often seems fairly well-used. Came across this article from 2019 by a bus enthusiast who describes his trip on the 90 after trying out other UK cities' circular bus routes. I was particularly impressed by the passenger statistics he kept, including a total of 145 different passengers on that particular service:

Ninety round Glasgow - BusAndTrainUser

 

[route101]

I often pass the 90 in Springburn. I'm surprised there's continued demand for an outer circle, considering the majority of routes cut through the city centre or start/end there, but it often seems fairly well-used. Came across this article from 2019 by a bus enthusiast who describes his trip on the 90 after trying out other UK cities' circular bus routes. I was particularly impressed by the passenger statistics he kept, including a total of 145 different passengers on that particular service:

Ninety round Glasgow - BusAndTrainUser

Yeah i read that. I have noticed a lot of part route on the 90. Partick to Springburn.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I often pass the 90 in Springburn. I'm surprised there's continued demand for an outer circle, considering the majority of routes cut through the city centre or start/end there, but it often seems fairly well-used. Came across this article from 2019 by a bus enthusiast who describes his trip on the 90 after trying out other UK cities' circular bus routes. I was particularly impressed by the passenger statistics he kept, including a total of 145 different passengers on that particular service:

Ninety round Glasgow - BusAndTrainUser

Interesting article, i hadn't realised the 90 was that well used. Although it's not really a true "circular".