First Greater Glasgow

[Jordan Adam]

First Glasgow has been awarded funding to convert 165 buses to Euro VI standard emissions. For some reason they are getting a lot more money than Lothian (Euro IV buses getting converted?). No mention of funding for the First Aberdeen buses currently getting converted, unless they are included here.

https://www.transport.gov.scot/publ...ottish-bus-emissions-abatement-retrofit-fund/

Aberdeen's LEZ zone seems to have been put on hold so perhaps funding will come in the next phase?

The difference in price is likely because Lothians conversions will mostly be Euro 5 buses whereas Glasgow will have more Euro 4s. I'd assume Euro 4s cost more to convert?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Aberdeen's LEZ zone seems to have been put on hold so perhaps funding will come in the next phase?

The difference in price is likely because Lothians conversions will mostly be Euro 5 buses whereas Glasgow will have more Euro 4s. I'd assume Euro 4s cost more to convert?

I presume by about 2022 the oldest buses will be the newer B9TLs and the low height E400s. Other than that it’ll be all enviro stock and Streetlites.

 

[Volvodart]

Whatever is getting funding for conversion is supposed to be used for 5 years thereafter.

 

[PaulMc7]

Anything from 06/07 onwards then makes a lot of sense with vehicles older than that going out of the fleet. Get to 2026/27 and there will have been vehicles used for 20/21 years. Definitely possible as long as nothing goes wrong

 

[Jordan Adam]

Anything from 06/07 onwards then makes a lot of sense with vehicles older than that going out of the fleet. Get to 2026/27 and there will have been vehicles used for 20/21 years. Definitely possible as long as nothing goes wrong

It has been mentioned before that some B7RLEs will be retained for the out of city routes such as in Dumbarton, Keep in mind only the routes that actually go in to the city need to be LEZ compliant. Hence for that reason i can see the 201/266 fleet not getting conversions and retaining the existing fleet.

 

[route101]

When will the odler BT7Ls and Eclipses start to leave the fleet? As i presume new buses will have to replace them.

 

[Jordan Adam]

When will the odler BT7Ls and Eclipses start to leave the fleet? As i presume new buses will have to replace them.

New buses were due to be getting delivered around now but the order has been delayed (i believe until early next year).

 

[PaulMc7]

It has been mentioned before that some B7RLEs will be retained for the out of city routes such as in Dumbarton, Keep in mind only the routes that actually go in to the city need to be LEZ compliant. Hence for that reason i can see the 201/266 fleet not getting conversions and retaining the existing fleet.

Yeah there's definitely a few routes First will be glad don't require LEZ compliant buses and those are definitely 2 of them. It'll probably work out pretty comfortably anyway considering demand could end up leading to some services dropping frequency

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Bit of a change to the current topic but having been doing more cross city travel it has hit me that glasgow us very good at East West routes
North South
But is pretty chap at
East South routes
With only the 38s really doing east south and they bearly cover the Southside
Could a route along the lines of
Easterhouse - cranhill - gartcraig - carntyne - parkhead - duke st - City - partick - queh hospital - govan - silverburn- south Park village
Would allow you to cut the 89 / 8 /90 to partick terminus
3 could be terminated at silverburn
49 could be scrapped
Reduce the frequency of the 60 easterhouse to city end
And provide a major new route that connects east west south

 

[Jordan Adam]

Bit of a change to the current topic but having been doing more cross city travel it has hit me that glasgow us very good at East West routes
North South
But is pretty chap at
East South routes
With only the 38s really doing east south and they bearly cover the Southside
Could a route along the lines of
Easterhouse - cranhill - gartcraig - carntyne - parkhead - duke st - City - partick - queh hospital - govan - silverburn- south Park village
Would allow you to cut the 89 / 8 /90 to partick terminus
3 could be terminated at silverburn
49 could be scrapped
Reduce the frequency of the 60 easterhouse to city end
And provide a major new route that connects east west south

Cross city routes helps reduce PVR and congestion as you don't have buses terminating and overlapping in the city centre.

 

[PaulMc7]

I like the idea of cuts coming from new routes tbh especially if it takes buses from terminating in the city centre. Something different just to freshen up the network might go down well with people to be fair

Obviously keep the core branded routes as they are but a bit of work could be done with the rest

 

[sannox]

Bit of a change to the current topic but having been doing more cross city travel it has hit me that glasgow us very good at East West routes
North South
But is pretty chap at
East South routes
With only the 38s really doing east south and they bearly cover the Southside
Could a route along the lines of
Easterhouse - cranhill - gartcraig - carntyne - parkhead - duke st - City - partick - queh hospital - govan - silverburn- south Park village
Would allow you to cut the 89 / 8 /90 to partick terminus
3 could be terminated at silverburn
49 could be scrapped
Reduce the frequency of the 60 easterhouse to city end
And provide a major new route that connects east west south

In SBL days there was more. The 39 from Linwood to Garthamlock, now long gone, off the top of my head is one.

The 3 and 49 don't share much route at all, only a tiny section into each bus station! 49 no longer goes the longstanding direct route, used to have 2 operators every 10 mins via Braidcraft Road, but replaces the old '3' route now 153 via Brockburn Road and North Pollok.

I probably wouldn't split the 3 at Silverburn. It's a pretty long standing route on the southside, and it is busy with folk beyond Silverburn - you used to see that in the days Puma Coaches competed that many went beyond Pollok Centre. If anything the 3 is a bit long but it's difficult to split up effectively now. Southside-West End, Crookston-Shawlands, Cardonald-Govan, Partick-Drumchapel.

90 does terminate at Partick on most journeys but I actually thought the 90 would now be useful to complete the circle via QUEH and Braehead instead of terminating short. I suspect the 90 isn't very good commercially but is a very useful route!

 

[PaulMc7]

I'd love to see the figures for the 8 and 90 in particular. 2 very long routes that I've used a lot that are either very quiet or absolutely packed with passengers.

Don't think either probably make great money but they've both lasted pretty well

 

[route101]

Yes, there is not a route going along Paisley road West to the East End. Id like to see more routes joinig the spokes but it seems that no city routes dont do as well.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think there would be a lot more services going from one end of the city to another if the council actually done anything about congestion that worked. The problem is that too many people think their local bus isn't good although in most cases that's not the case.

Seen people complain about their buses being of short supply yet they've been every 10 mins or better on occasion

 

[Arriva Fan]

I think there would be a lot more services going from one end of the city to another if the council actually done anything about congestion that worked. The problem is that too many people think their local bus isn't good although in most cases that's not the case.

Seen people complain about their buses being of short supply yet they've been every 10 mins or better on occasion

That'll be because of regular 20 Minute plus waits due to bunching.

First can't solve that, only the ineffective government can do anything. LEZ is a joke if taxis, private cars and 1980s vintage DMUs continue to enter glasgow city centre.

 

[92002]

That'll be because of regular 20 Minute plus waits due to bunching.

First can't solve that, only the ineffective government can do anything. LEZ is a joke if taxis, private cars and 1980s vintage DMUs continue to enter glasgow city centre.

The LEZ zone in your eyes in Glasgow may be a joke. It however comes in on phases and there is more to come in the next couple of years.

First Glasgow gave a good number of new buses to get delivered on they time. Probably the diesel trains that you talk about will be replaced by electric ones. With the odd few given EU6 makeovers or replaced by hydrogen or LPG.

The example could be followed in many other cases and yes taxis are included top.

 

[Arriva Fan]

The LEZ zone in your eyes in Glasgow may be a joke. It however comes in on phases and there is more to come in the next couple of years.

First Glasgow gave a good number of new buses to get delivered on they time. Probably the diesel trains that you talk about will be replaced by electric ones. With the odd few given EU6 makeovers or replaced by hydrogen or LPG.

The example could be followed in many other cases and yes taxis are included top.

But why are Buses targeted first? You'd have cut pollution from 'dirty old buses' if they didn't have to sit idling in a poorly laid out, congested city.

Phase one should have been eradicating private cars. Removing taxis from stopping in Bus Lanes and Bus Priority traffic lights. LEZ is designed to look good. No substance whatsoever.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Had it not been for Covid First would've already been at a push, just look at the amount of Euro 3 buses still in the Glasgow fleet. The 2020/21 order is basically cancelled given that it's likely being delayed until next year, so that'll leave just the 2021/22 and 2022/23 financial years for new vehicles. There's still over 200 Euro 3 vehicles in the fleet not including all the Euro 4 B9TLs, some of which won't be eligible for funding due to their age. In short they'll need somewhere between 225 and 250 new vehicles, i just can't see that happening in a two year period, granted the 2018/19 order was for 150 vehicles but it has always been said that subsequent orders wouldn't be as big.

That's not including the fact that FSE will need LEZ compliant vehicles for the X10/X10A/X35/X36/X37 (assuming the X35 is extended back to Glasgow), currently the only LEZ compliant vehicles Midland have are the E400MMCs used on the Stirling University route. As for Aberdeen... basically the entire fleet will need replaced on converted as there's only 7 Euro 6 vehicles in the current fleet.

I wouldn't get your hopes up regarding Trains, Hydrogen trains are a technology not currently developed enough and clearance issues on the West Highland Line will likely see the 156s last a good while yet. Taxis should be considered private cars and banned from bus only zones, they don't help reduce emissions or congestion. If anything i'd favour electric/Hydrogen powered cars being allowed in bus lanes over taxis.

 

[PaulMc7]

More does need to be done about congestion but I think it'll come at some point. Buses contribute a fair amount of pollution even when not stuck at traffic lights but the other big plus that's came with the LEZ is that First were forced to invest in the fleet here meaning we've had plenty of better quality vehicles in. Obviously covid changed plans but between the new vehicles bought in and ones transferred in from other operations we've had a significant wave of better quality

 

[92002]

But why are Buses targeted first? You'd have cut pollution from 'dirty old buses' if they didn't have to sit idling in a poorly laid out, congested city.

Phase one should have been eradicating private cars. Removing taxis from stopping in Bus Lanes and Bus Priority traffic lights. LEZ is designed to look good. No substance whatsoever.

You obviously have not seen the state of some of Firsts finest in Glasgow. Hope Street is the most polluted Street in the country. They don't tend to sit and idle these days. Most services are cross city. Newer buses shut down at the bus stops. With mostly taxis and buses allowed in Hope Street. The odd car doesn't really make a great deal of difference. Yes there are worse buses in the Greater Glasgow area, but only First and Mc Gills come to the City Centre. Others who go to the bus station are exempt from the LEZ zone.

Most Glasgow taxis are quite modern in any case. With electric taxis appearing more regularly now.

The city centre traffic light have been transport priority for many years.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Glasgow is laid out ridiculously. There is absolutely no bus priority. There should be bus lanes in use at all times which are built to skip traffic, Argyle Street where Marks and Spencer is should be converted to bus only so as to cut the ridiculously long route past St Enoch Centre. So much more could be done on the roads to encourage the use of public transport. Unfortunately the car is still the most desirable choice for most as it’s easy to park elsewhere and the buses are like the slow boat to China most of the time

 

[PaulMc7]

I think the only way to give buses priority is to make it so cars are completely banned from the city centre apart from if it's essential because of driver disability etc. Problem is that a lot of people will be left annoyed. It would require funding too in order to put on new buses but that would also cause a problem because you then need more drivers and buses on top of losing car parking charges

I also don't think Glasgow is helped by how close the motorway junctions are to the city centre. Even the expressway feeds straight into the city centre so it encourages heavy car use just by it being so straightforward

 

[GaryMcEwan]

You obviously have not seen the state of some of Firsts finest in Glasgow. Hope Street is the most polluted Street in the country. They don't tend to sit and idle these days. Most services are cross city. Newer buses shut down at the bus stops. With mostly taxis and buses allowed in Hope Street. The odd car doesn't really make a great deal of difference. Yes there are worse buses in the Greater Glasgow area, but only First and Mc Gills come to the City Centre. Others who go to the bus station are exempt from the LEZ zone.

Most Glasgow taxis are quite modern in any case. With electric taxis appearing more regularly now.

The city centre traffic light have been transport priority for many years.

Both Stagecoach and Glasgow Citybus also come into Glasgow City Centre. However most of their fleet that come into the City Centre are either Euro 5 or Euro 6 already.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Easterhouse - cranhill - gartcraig - carntyne - parkhead - duke st - City - partick - queh hospital - govan - silverburn- south Park village

That is a very indirect route which is already covered by various other services.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

That is a very indirect route which is already covered by various other services.

Yeah it is thats why i memtion the abiltybto cut or merge in other services while providing new links and removing terminating buses from the city center

 

[route101]

That is a very indirect route which is already covered by various other services.

Its basically the 46 , 2, 77, and 49 route fused.

 

[PaulMc7]

Noticed today that the buses seemed a bit busier than they have been previously. Noticed that every 1 I seen had a duplicate with it which with roadworks on the expressway did end up leading to a pile up of them

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Or you could merge the 10 and 41 but that would lose some of the new links like partick that the other bus would have

 

[PaulMc7]

To be fair considering how frequent the trains are along with the subway Partick is probably overbused if anything. It's one of those areas that's unavoidable really because of the places the buses go to.

There's the 2, 3, M4, 8, 16, 77 and 90 plus Mcgills have the 17 and 141 too and Avondale have the 400. It's crowded