First Greater Glasgow

[sannox]

I love your faith in SPT. Personally, I think the tendered network is a bit of a mess and the responsibility for that lies entirely with SPT. It’s grown on an ad-hoc basis over the years, responding to the piecemeal cuts from First & McGills (mainly). Every time a ‘vital’ service has been cut, the local councillors have made a fuss and SPT have cobbled something together. What we’ve ended up with is an incoherent mess. Keeping on topic, this matters as more cuts from First are almost nailed on – can see some evening/Sunday services disappearing. If SPT are as broke as they say, it’ll be interesting to see how they deal with the inevitable calls to ‘do something’.

I agree, but I don't think it's completely SPT's fault- they've cobbled together a cheap route network designed for coverage and low vehicle requirements.

I'm sure many in there would like to change routes, but can't because of commercial competition and costs. The 31 is an example of this along with the McGill's 1/2 services in Bridge of Weir show this as they cover everyone but don't serve the actual links.

 

[lastbus]

SPT pay for routes that carry fresh air. They should review the network and get rid of the routes that have a high cost per passenger journey. Then with the money saved they can actually cover the routes that are vital. Maybe they should have more dial a bus services rather than fresh air expresses then they would get better value for money.

 

[adrock1976]

Ideally SPT should be in charge of all the local bus services within the PTE area with mixed packages of both the busy routes and some quieter routes let out as franchises, as is done in London.

That way, everybody has access to a bus service throughout the day.

 

[overthewater]

Heaven's no... That would he even worse then now.

 

[GusB]

While SPT tenders are of relevance to this thread when First are running them, please keep general discussion of SPT routes in the proper place:

SPT Tendered Routes

*Mod note* Posts 1-34 were originally in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/first-greater-glasgow.164437/ https://www.firstgroup.com/greater-glasgow/news-and-service-updates/planned-changes/changes-spt-tendered-services-sunday-12 SPT changes announced too now. 31 absolutely...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[PaulMc7]

To be fair to First they still cover an amazingly high percentage of Glasgow and the outskirts even if you take out the SPT tenders.

I would expect services to be on a shaky peg here and there though so it could get interesting over the next few months

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

I've noticed a bus turning area has just been finished off at Robroyston Station then again could be for whenever there's a replacement bus service for the railway

 

[PaulMc7]

I've noticed a bus turning area has just been finished off at Robroyston Station then again could be for whenever there's a replacement bus service for the railway

Probably the most likely reason is for a replacement bus service when needed. Only train station I can think of in Glasgow with a proper bus terminus is Drumchapel. Been used by First for years as a terminus

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Probably the most likely reason is for a replacement bus service. Only train station I can think of in Glasgow with a proper bus terminus is Drumchapel. Been used by First for years as a terminus

Aye the 9 used the Drum for years and then it changed to the 3 and the 16 used it for a while as well

 

[PaulMc7]

Aye the 9 used the Drum for years and then it changed to the 3 and the 16 used it for a while as well

Yeah pretty sure the 42 had a shot of it too. It's actually been a surprise that there's not been more terminus flips in Drumchapel considering different buses had swapped around previously. Monymusk Place and the train station was always the go to swap for First

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Yeah pretty sure the 42 had a shot of it too. It's actually been a surprise that there's not been more terminus flips in Drumchapel considering different buses had swapped around previously. Monymusk Place and the train station was always the go to swap for First

Think Peel Glen Road was a terminus for the 42 at one point don't quote me on that though lol.

 

[PaulMc7]

Think Peel Glen Road was a terminus for the 42 at one point don't quote me on that though lol.

I know the 41 was there at one point and the 20. Can understand why the new terminus up from Peel Glen Road for the 6A is preferable though compared to the old one. Still quite a lot of trouble up there plus it was an area where drivers were attacked on occasion

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

I know the 41 was there at one point and the 20. Can understand why the new terminus up from Peel Glen Road for the 6A is preferable though compared to the old one. Still quite a lot of trouble up there plus it was an area where drivers were attacked on occasion

Aye the Drum was a nightmare for drivers being attacked and buses being damaged back in the day.

 

[PaulMc7]

Aye the Drum was a nightmare for drivers being attacked and buses being damaged back in the day.

Quite luckily not heard anything recently. Shopping centre area is still a bit intimidating to get a bus from despite how many times I've done it but the rest of the area doesn't seem as bad. Still really well bussed and they're all well used too

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Quite luckily not heard anything recently. Shopping centre area is still a bit intimidating to get a bus from despite how many times I've done it but the rest of the area doesn't seem as bad. Still really well bussed and they're all well used too

Do the 60 on the odd occasion through the Drum see the usual clientele hanging about the shops lol.

 

[PaulMc7]

Do the 60 on the odd occasion through the Drum see the usual clientele hanging about the shops lol.

Yeah it's never really changed. One of the only town centres that's held together pretty well since online shopping has become more of a thing although there's not a lot that you could do online from there. Food shopping is the only one really

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Yeah it's never really changed. One of the only town centres that's held together pretty well since online shopping has become more of a thing although there's not a lot that you could do online from there. Food shopping is the only one really

Aye it's a busy wee place the majority of the time.

 

[PaulMc7]

Aye it's a busy wee place the majority of the time.

Can remember one time being on the 1C at night up to get the 60 to Bearsden and it got to the shopping centre and the driver jumped off to go into the bookies because the bus was early. Think it was also for a toilet too to be fair to him although he was speaking to me about football as I got off

 

[GusB]

Aye the Drum was a nightmare for drivers being attacked and buses being damaged back in the day.

Please explain "the Drum" to a wider audience. Thanks

 

[PaulMc7]

Please explain "the Drum" to a wider audience. Thanks

Would it not be clear from Drumchapel being mentioned so much? Just curious

 

[cnjb8]

Would it not be clear from Drumchapel being mentioned so much? Just curious

Being from England, no it is not clear. Sorry

 

[PaulMc7]

Being from England, no it is not clear. Sorry

That's fair enough. I can understand it when abbreviations are first used with no place being mentioned but when the first time it was used was on a post sandwiched between 2 posts that say Drumchapel it just seems a bit more obvious

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That's fair enough. I can understand it when abbreviations are first used with no place being mentioned but when the first time it was used was on a post sandwiched between 2 posts that say Drumchapel it just seems a bit more obvious

To be fair, for those without the detailed local knowledge, Drumchapel and The Drum may seem like totally separate things.

It's no big issue and we're all guilty of it at times. Were someone to mention Lawrence Weston and El Dub in Bristol, that might be similar.

 

[PaulMc7]

Was having a think about letter variants vs numbers and how easy it is to remember them for which variant goes where.

Would having a network of completely numbers be easier for people who aren't regular users of a bus to remember?

I could imagine with certain buses that it would be easier. For example the 1s and 38s probably aren't ideal for someone who isn't familiar because there's more than 1 variant.

I'd imagine though that it's easier in certain areas for example like Lanarkshire where there's actually not been too much in the ways of number changes. The likes of the 201, 240, 267 etc have all been the same since I was a young boy 20 years ago

 

[Jordan Adam]

Was having a think about letter variants vs numbers and how easy it is to remember them for which variant goes where.

Would having a network of completely numbers be easier for people who aren't regular users of a bus to remember?

I could imagine with certain buses that it would be easier. For example the 1s and 38s probably aren't ideal for someone who isn't familiar because there's more than 1 variant.

I'd imagine though that it's easier in certain areas for example like Lanarkshire where there's actually not been too much in the ways of number changes. The likes of the 201, 240, 267 etc have all been the same since I was a young boy 20 years ago

Possibly, but i'm not against the user of suffix/prefix letters. I do agree though the 1 and 38 can get rather confusing.

 

[PaulMc7]

Possibly, but i'm not against the user of suffix/prefix letters. I do agree though the 1 and 38 can get rather confusing.

Yeah I'm okay with it when there's only 1 variant with a letter. Anything more gets a bit harder to keep up with.

I think the 1C and 1D should be the other way around although it's unfortunate because the 1C was a thing a while before the 1D was brought in. The 38s aren't easy either but it's unfortunate that 2 variants have terminus that begin with a B plus the Glasgow Fort ones are the main so it's not like that being the 38E wouldn't make too much sense

 

[Jordan Adam]

Yeah I'm okay with it when there's only 1 variant with a letter. Anything more gets a bit harder to keep up with.

I think the 1C and 1D should be the other way around although it's unfortunate because the 1C was a thing a while before the 1D was brought in. The 38s aren't easy either but it's unfortunate that 2 variants have terminus that begin with a B plus the Glasgow Fort ones are the main so it's not like that being the 38E wouldn't make too much sense

Where possible the suffix should try and reflect where it terminates or goes via, for example until recently in Aberdeen the 3A went via "Altens" while the 3G went to Gateway Business Park. I know it can be a controversial issue but X prefix/suffix's should only ever be used if a route is express or limited stop, otherwise it gets misleading, likewise with N for NightBuses.

I am fairly familiar with the Glasgow network but even i can't remember where the certain variations of the 1 and 38 go!

 

[PaulMc7]

Where possible the suffix should try and reflect where it terminates or goes via, for example until recently in Aberdeen the 3A went via "Altens" while the 3G went to Gateway Business Park. I know it can be a controversial issue but X prefix/suffix's should only ever be used if a route is express or limited stop, otherwise it gets misleading, likewise with N for NightBuses.

I am fairly familiar with the Glasgow network but even i can't remember where the certain variations of the 1 and 38 go!

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. It did take me quite a while to get used to it when the 1s first became a thing and I used them every day at the time so I'm not surprised. Also used the 38s a ton at first too after Simplicity and that wasn't easy to figure out

 

[AnnieslandJohn]

To be fair, for those without the detailed local knowledge, Drumchapel and The Drum may seem like totally separate things.

It's no big issue and we're all guilty of it at times. Were someone to mention Lawrence Weston and El Dub in Bristol, that might be similar.

The Drum could also refer to Bo'ness where there is a housing estate and a bus stop with a Lay-by (not to be confused with the Lawrence Weston Lay-by).
It helps if you went to school in Lawrence Weston, live in Anniesland, use the 6A regularly and go on lockdown walks in the Bearsden/Drumchapel area. I have seen Lawrence Weston referred to as El Dub on forums but it was never called that by the locals/Bristolians - is it a recent internet/youth generational thing?

 

[Volvodart]

First Glasgow has been awarded funding to convert 165 buses to Euro VI standard emissions. For some reason they are getting a lot more money than Lothian (Euro IV buses getting converted?). No mention of funding for the First Aberdeen buses currently getting converted, unless they are included here.

https://www.transport.gov.scot/publ...ottish-bus-emissions-abatement-retrofit-fund/

BEAR Phase 3 grants awarded in 2020/21 are:

Operator	Buses / Coaches	Total Grant awarded
Lothian Buses	188	£2,207,952
First Glasgow	165	£3,099,950
McGills	72	£1,301,790
Scottish Omnibuses Ltd (Stagecoach)	63	£1,148,976
Xplore Dundee (National Express)	21	£392,036
E&M Horsburgh Ltd	9	£171,000
Dochertys Midland Coaches	9	£169,955
Prentice Westwood	9	£171,000
Houstons Coaches	9	£171,000
Edinburgh Coachlines (1)	9	£171,000
Borders Buses Ltd (West Coast Motors)	8	£152,000
Shiel Buses	7	£121,690
Edinburgh Coachlines (2)	5	£91,651
McLeans Coaches	5	£95,000
MacPhails Coaches	4	£76,000
Moffat & Williamson Ltd	3	£57,000
Halls Coaches	3	£57,000
Silverdale Coaches	2	£38,000
Kevin's Coaches Ltd	2	£38,000
Red Bus Bistro Co Ltd	1	£19,000
Total	594	£9,757,000