First Greater Glasgow

[JumpinTrainz]

Think we will definitely see a lot of reshuffling going on with the fleet across different operations as they begin to wind down.

Already seems to be a lot of reshuffling going on with what buses appear on which services. The danger First have especially in Glasgow is that if they don't treat the customers well it'll make it harder to sell

I did think with LEZ coming up we would start to see a few reshuffles from down South to bring some up the buses more up-to-date without buying them all from completely new. It would be nice if they would bring up some Streetdeckers but I doubt that will happen.

Seems odd they’re getting rid of the Streetlites but in turn having been bringing more up.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I did think with LEZ coming up we would start to see a few reshuffles from down South to bring some up the buses more up-to-date without buying them all from completely new. It would be nice if they would bring up some Streetdeckers but I doubt that will happen.

Seems odd they’re getting rid of the Streetlites but in turn having been bringing more up.

As I've pointed out before, it's difficult for First as they have a lot of other operations that are also having to comply with low emission zones across the UK. Places like Southampton and Leicester are having to comply. Interms of Leicester, they had a number of B7L/B7RLE that had to be replaced and they have to be fully compliant by the end of 2020. So Glasgow being phased means that work has to be done but Leicester has a certain priority. If the plan outlined by the Midlands MD comes to fruition, they're getting 2015 Streetlites from Worcester that will, in turn, be replaced by 2007 Citaros.

There's a lot of operations that could actually do with new vehicles and are profitable (e.g. Cymru, Leicester) but because money is tight, they have to rely on the 3-4 year old vehicles from around the patch. Of course, First West of England aren't great fans of their Streetlites so they're incrementally offloading them, with a number already headed north of the border. In time, you might get a few more of them. As for the swaps, it might be dependent on size or tech spec.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

As I've pointed out before, it's difficult for First as they have a lot of other operations that are also having to comply with low emission zones across the UK. Places like Southampton and Leicester are having to comply. Interms of Leicester, they had a number of B7L/B7RLE that had to be replaced and they have to be fully compliant by the end of 2020. So Glasgow being phased means that work has to be done but Leicester has a certain priority. If the plan outlined by the Midlands MD comes to fruition, they're getting 2015 Streetlites from Worcester that will, in turn, be replaced by 2007 Citaros.

There's a lot of operations that could actually do with new vehicles and are profitable (e.g. Cymru, Leicester) but because money is tight, they have to rely on the 3-4 year old vehicles from around the patch. Of course, First West of England aren't great fans of their Streetlites so they're incrementally offloading them, with a number already headed north of the border. In time, you might get a few more of them. As for the swaps, it might be dependent on size or tech spec.

I agree with you it’s sad that First is in a sorry state and has to prioritise who gets new stock and other divisions have to persevere with older stock.

In regards to Glasgow it’s hard to ignore the years of neglect it also went through in terms of new buses which landed us in a sorry state when the tridents arrived from London. I would say only now are Glasgow really recovering from that. LEZ has been good as it’s encouraged a lot of new stock and wiped out a lot of the old. There’s still work to be done but that doesn’t shy away from the fact that First as a whole have other operations also screaming out for buses. That would be the same with any operator.

However I can’t help but blame First at their lack of buying new buses and investing in their fleet which has left them with a much higher bill because of the amount of buses which need replaced.

 

[Bradley]

Does anyone know if Bristol will get 32550 and 32552 to complete with the batch.

 

[SarahDFIG]

As much as no one likes the Streetlites unfortunately Glasgow will soon be home to more.

Overtown depot should be seeing another few 63/64 plate streetlites added to the fleet in the coming months which will see the darts moved over to Caley depot. Darts are then to be moved over to Dumbarton to see off the B10BLEs. Caetano darts to remain at caley on reserve ?

 

[SarahDFIG]

Does anyone know if Bristol will get 32550 and 32552 to complete with the batch.

Not marked to be leaving just yet.

 

[Bradley]

Thanks SarahDFIG and also do you know if any of a bus type is expected to move to Bristol?.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I agree with you it’s sad that First is in a sorry state and has to prioritise who gets new stock and other divisions have to persevere with older stock.

In regards to Glasgow it’s hard to ignore the years of neglect it also went through in terms of new buses which landed us in a sorry state when the tridents arrived from London. I would say only now are Glasgow really recovering from that. LEZ has been good as it’s encouraged a lot of new stock and wiped out a lot of the old. There’s still work to be done but that doesn’t shy away from the fact that First as a whole have other operations also screaming out for buses. That would be the same with any operator.

However I can’t help but blame First at their lack of buying new buses and investing in their fleet which has left them with a much higher bill because of the amount of buses which need replaced.

The challenges of the various LEZs are common to many operators though First have perhaps more urban operations than the larger groups.

However, as has been discussed in great detail, First pursued a very dubious business strategy and have been architects of their own problems. In the mid 1990s, they were created through a merger (with quite a level of debt) and then went on a spending spree to become the biggest. They made some big and arguably sensible purchases in GM Buses North, Mainline and SB Holdings but those were fleets that also required quite a level of investment. Instead, they carried on buying (at inflated figures) firms like Centrewest, Capital Citybus and Cawlett. That was bad enough but then they bought Laidlaw and that remains the one thing that has fundamentally blighted UK Bus (and the rest of the group). It swallowed up cash AND the debt repayments meant that new vehicle investment was severely curtailed between 2009-12 except to support London tenders. Glasgow got very little new fleet - other places got nothing at all. That has massively impacted the UK bus business.

When the shareholders bailed out the business in 2012/3, there was a very real possibility of not hitting the various DDA deadlines. However, it has left a legacy of very skewed vehicle profiles that will take some time to unwind. However, they do seem to be pursuing a very definite policy of culling B7Ls across the country as they are some of the oldest and thirstiest vehicles going.

Does anyone know if Bristol will get 32550 and 32552 to complete with the batch.

Not marked to be leaving just yet.

Nice, neat and tidy batches may appeal to some but there are often reasons that mean "odd" vehicles are left out and never move, based on financial or other reasons At the end of the day, it's no big deal.

 

[SarahDFIG]

Thanks SarahDFIG and also do you know if any of a bus type is expected to move to Bristol?.

As it stands right now no. Plenty of rumours but I can't confirm anything.

 

[Bradley]

Ok thanks.

 

[overthewater]

As much as no one likes the Streetlites unfortunately Glasgow will soon be home to more.

Overtown depot should be seeing another few 63/64 plate streetlites added to the fleet in the coming months which will see the darts moved over to Caley depot. Darts are then to be moved over to Dumbarton to see off the B10BLEs. Caetano darts to remain at caley on reserve ?

Where are these streetlites coming from? Are all the darts moving?

The challenges of the various LEZs are common to many operators though First have perhaps more urban operations than the larger groups.

However, as has been discussed in great detail, First pursued a very dubious business strategy and have been architects of their own problems. In the mid 1990s, they were created through a merger (with quite a level of debt) and then went on a spending spree to become the biggest. They made some big and arguably sensible purchases in GM Buses North, Mainline and SB Holdings but those were fleets that also required quite a level of investment. Instead, they carried on buying (at inflated figures) firms like Centrewest, Capital Citybus and Cawlett. That was bad enough but then they bought Laidlaw and that remains the one thing that has fundamentally blighted UK Bus (and the rest of the group). It swallowed up cash AND the debt repayments meant that new vehicle investment was severely curtailed between 2009-12 except to support London tenders. Glasgow got very little new fleet - other places got nothing at all. That has massively impacted the UK bus business.

Which is a shame, if there had a simple policy of 50 new buses per year (or 100 every 2 years) then of course this mess would not have happened, heck . Of course back in 2012 there had great idea if getting in refurb to replaced older stock. Again what happened to that idea? most of them are still in service.

 

[CM]

Perhaps they should bring back the Bus Grant from the 70s/80s where the Government/Local Authority covered 50%(I belive) of the cost of a new vehicle but the new vehicle had to meet certain critera.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Perhaps they should bring back the Bus Grant from the 70s/80s where the Government/Local Authority covered 50%(I belive) of the cost of a new vehicle but the new vehicle had to meet certain critera.

Would never work in todays world sadly. Perhaps it would be better if the GOV funded the concession passes properly!

As much as no one likes the Streetlites unfortunately Glasgow will soon be home to more.

I send my condolences to all residents of Glasgow.

 

[cnjb8]

As much as no one likes the Streetlites unfortunately Glasgow will soon be home to more.

I send my condolences to all residents of Glasgow.

I've never ridden a StreetLite. Luckily they don't operate in Nottingham

 

[Bus Lightyear]

It would be nice if they would bring up some Streetdeckers but I doubt that will happen.

Why would they want to add more bus types to their engineering requirements? Dual sourcing isn't always the best way to go from a training and cost point of view so they're probably best staying with the Enviro 400.

 

[Jordan Adam]

It would be nice if they would bring up some Streetdeckers but I doubt that will happen..

Why would anyone sane want that? Wrights are hard enough to get parts for as it is, not to mention the build quality on the Streetdeck is awful, all these years it's been in production and they've still not sorted the issues with water getting in where the fibreglass domes meet the roof. Additionally all the mechanics would have to be type trained, even the engine in them is totally different to anything in the Glasgow fleet. There's just no logic in that idea at all i'm afraid.

 

[SarahDFIG]

Where are these streetlites coming from? Are all the darts moving?

More from Bristol. Deckers going in return. Darts are staying in Glasgow fleet just moving depots.

I can confirm Glasgow won't be getting streetdecks. Gemini 2 will be the only non new deckers we should be seeing

 

[route101]

Noticed a fair few e300s on 5 , 34 and 57 etc , have caley lost deckers?

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Noticed a fair few e300s on 5 , 34 and 57 etc , have caley lost deckers?

Led to believe some have been loaned to First Aberdeen for services for an event that's about to take place.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Led to believe some have been loaned to First Aberdeen for services for an event that's about to take place.

Only 3 E400MMCs (33993 & 34361/62) so nothing significant. Certainly if it's having a major impact then that's worrying!

 

[SarahDFIG]

Only 3 E400MMCs (33993 & 34361/62) so nothing significant. Certainly if it's having a major impact then that's worrying!

few deckers off the road at the moment. Warranty Work/General Maintenance. Nothing worrying as there was a few lying spare.

 

[PaulMc7]

Another X31 registration went on VOSA yesterday for the Scotland game on Friday. Along with the X5 for the start of the Still Game tour at the Hydro First could definitely make the most of concerts/football games etc

 

[smtglasgow]

Any word on industrial action? I’m guessing the unions were sabre-rattling, but they’ve got a decent argument: cutting running times and layovers isn’t going to help reliability and can only increase pressure on drivers.

When you think about it, Glasgow’s profits have been sustained over the last few years by series of major savings – Cumbernauld & Parkhead closures and the efficiencies from the new superdepot. They’ve probably reached the end of the line with these savings – if there was space for Overton’s buses elsewhere it might be under threat, but there isn’t. Running Vale of Leven services from Scotstoun would be costly. So, we’re now looking at service cuts and (possibly) an attack on staff terms and conditions to maintain profits.

Not great, but I can’t see any evidence they’ve stopped hemorrhaging passengers - and pushing the fares ever higher isn’t helping. Day returns on the train have been better value than a Firstday for ages, but now the gap between weekly tickets is narrowing too. The weekly from my local station into town is now just £2.40 dearer than a m-ticket Firstweek – and 15 mins v 40 mins on the bus. Guess which one is growing exponentially…

When you add in all the well-known factors - congestion, retail decline, fragile economy and the cost of meeting the LEZ – it starts to look a bit bleak. Are there *any* reasons to be cheerful (apart from the shiny new buses)?

 

[SarahDFIG]

TBH I am surprised Overtown depot has lasted as long as it has ... as far as I am aware Hutchison's lease to First Glasgow no2 and they don't actually own the depot or land which I think is the reason we haven't seen this depot grow. I can see that being an problem for FIG in the Lanarkshire side of things as Blantyre doesn't have the capacity to house Overtown vehicles.

 

[lastbus]

TBH I am surprised Overtown depot has lasted as long as it has ... as far as I am aware Hutchison's lease to First Glasgow no2 and they don't actually own the depot or land which I think is the reason we haven't seen this depot grow. I can see that being an problem for FIG in the Lanarkshire side of things as Blantyre doesn't have the capacity to house Overtown vehicles.

Still another 8 or 9 years on the lease so Overtown should remain for a while yet.

 

[PaulMc7]

I'm not surprised that Overtown still continues tbh. If everything Lanarkshire based was run from Blantyre it would be a very crowded depot and the constant mileage costs just to even get a bus to start it's daily operation would not be worth it. Same with Dumbarton to be honest. The 1s are very successful and the 206 is fairly busy too so it would be difficult to run them from Scotstoun. I'm just up the road from Scotstoun and Balloch/Helensburgh is 18/19 miles so doing that just to start buses from there would be a non starter

 

[SarahDFIG]

I meant the Overtown depot in its current form. Non expansion etc obviously due to not owning the depot/land. They should have built an depot in the ravenscraig and combined Blantyre and Overtown into one and that way they could run the cumbernauld services from there also.

In terms of prospective buyers for Glasgow as an whole, it throws a spanner in the works as they would need to buy the business and then try and discuss terms with the lease holder for running an large portion of Lanarkshire.

 

[PaulMc7]

I meant the Overtown depot in its current form. Non expansion etc obviously due to not owning the depot/land. They should have built an depot in the ravenscraig and combined Blantyre and Overtown into one and that way they could run the cumbernauld services from there also.

In terms of prospective buyers for Glasgow as an whole, it throws a spanner in the works as they would need to buy the business and then try and discuss terms with the lease holder for running an large portion of Lanarkshire.

If whoever bought First Glasgow could get a new depot built quick enough to replace Overtown it may not be so bad but Blantyre isn't big enough to take everything Lanarkshire based. I'm sure as long as there wasn't many things needing to be sorted the lease could easily be sorted out. Whoever buys will probably need to look into it asap though

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In terms of prospective buyers for Glasgow as an whole, it throws a spanner in the works as they would need to buy the business and then try and discuss terms with the lease holder for running an large portion of Lanarkshire.

Surely the lease would simply be novated to any purchaser?

 

[SarahDFIG]

Surely the lease would simply be novated to any purchaser?

Yes of course it would but who knows what hutchy & First have agreed too on the lease ... as I said it "could" throw an spanner in the works for any prospective buyers.