First Greater Glasgow

[smtglasgow]

Same with Dumbarton to be honest. The 1s are very successful and the 206 is fairly busy too so it would be difficult to run them from Scotstoun. I'm just up the road from Scotstoun and Balloch/Helensburgh is 18/19 miles so doing that just to start buses from there would be a non starter

That was my point. They’ve banked all the easy wins – running the Dumbarton routes from Scotstoun would be madness. With passenger numbers declining, the only alternatives are to keep on jacking up the fares and/or service reductions. I’d imagine Andrew Jarvis is under huge pressure to keep the profits at £10m+, so cuts it is.

 

[PaulMc7]

That was my point. They’ve banked all the easy wins – running the Dumbarton routes from Scotstoun would be madness. With passenger numbers declining, the only alternatives are to keep on jacking up the fares and/or service reductions. I’d imagine Andrew Jarvis is under huge pressure to keep the profits at £10m+, so cuts it is.

Definitely. I think the problem buses have is the time it takes to get from one destination to the other for most people's journeys. In 2019, I'm surprised there's so many people who prefer journey time over cost but I can also understand it with how poorly congestion is handled in Glasgow. I looked up so many journey costs for trains from my house and it's only cheaper than bus if you go around 2/3 stops at most but when train takes 5/10mins over say 25/30 mins for a bus then it's a simple choice. Only way bus always wins for me is down to how many I get a day when I'm out. When I'm back working I will probably cut down but even then I will still always do stuff at the weekend so the value is still there. It's such a catch 22 for most people so I can understand the decline in passenger numbers. The subway is also still a great success too so it takes so many short journey passengers from the areas it covers too

 

[lastbus]

Surely the lease would simply be novated to any purchaser?

I would imagine so.

I meant the Overtown depot in its current form. Non expansion etc obviously due to not owning the depot/land. They should have built an depot in the ravenscraig and combined Blantyre and Overtown into one and that way they could run the cumbernauld services from there also.

In terms of prospective buyers for Glasgow as an whole, it throws a spanner in the works as they would need to buy the business and then try and discuss terms with the lease holder for running an large portion of Lanarkshire.

Ravenscraig depot has been rumoured for years but your suggestion to run Cumbernauld express from here is bonkers IMO.

There is a bus station in the plans for the Ravenscraig regeneration.

 

[PaulMc7]

I would imagine so.


Ravenscraig depot has been rumoured for years but your suggestion to run Cumbernauld express from here is bonkers IMO.

There is a bus station in the plans for the Ravenscraig regeneration.

Ravenscraig would definitely be handy for the likes of the Wishaw, Cleland, Overtown, Newarthill, Newmains services etc. I don't really think there is a cost-effective way of running the X3 tbh unless you had buses start earlier from the city centre first instead of heading citybound first. The only problem would be that there wouldn't be enough demand plus for the earliest Cumbernauld buses you'd probably need a half 5 bus outwards to currently feed into the X3 timetable as it stands

 

[SarahDFIG]

I would imagine so.

Ravenscraig depot has been rumoured for years but your suggestion to run Cumbernauld express from here is bonkers IMO.

There is a bus station in the plans for the Ravenscraig regeneration.

How is it bonkers ? ... There is potential for increase in services in Lanarkshire and plotting an depot at the Ravenscraig would have made perfect sense as easily accessible to the M8/M74. Run services to Cumbernauld from Wishaw/Motherwell via Coatbridge/Airdrie. Express service could easily start from the craig as another route over to Cumbernauld then start express service and same at end of day. Ran exactly like the setup as X11/266. This idea would link up an large portion of Lanarkshire.

 

[PaulMc7]

How is it bonkers ? ... There is potential for increase in services in Lanarkshire and plotting an depot at the Ravenscraig would have made perfect sense as easily accessible to the M8/M74. Run services to Cumbernauld from Wishaw/Motherwell via Coatbridge/Airdrie. Express service could easily start from the craig as another route over to Cumbernauld then start express service and same at end of day. Ran exactly like the setup as X11/266. This idea would link up an large portion of Lanarkshire.

Could also set up a new link for the new Monklands site when the new hospital is built and give Wishaw etc links to Coatbridge/Airdrie etc. Could lead to a service like Mcgills 247 too. Further afield links between Kirkintilloch/Cumbernauld to Airdrie/Coatbridge etc

 

[lastbus]

How is it bonkers ? ... There is potential for increase in services in Lanarkshire and plotting an depot at the Ravenscraig would have made perfect sense as easily accessible to the M8/M74. Run services to Cumbernauld from Wishaw/Motherwell via Coatbridge/Airdrie. Express service could easily start from the craig as another route over to Cumbernauld then start express service and same at end of day. Ran exactly like the setup as X11/266. This idea would link up an large portion of Lanarkshire.

Your forgetting a pretty important thing here driver changeovers. Yes it may be accessible to Cumbernauld but where is the changeover going to be when the driver is based in ravenscraig. Caledonia’s change over for X3 is in BBS ten minutes from the depot and on a cycle with all ex Cumbernauld routes. I stand by what I said it’s bonkers.

There is no demand for a Motherwell to Cumbernauld bus service. The journey can be done by train in 20 minutes why would anyone want to take a bus?

 

[PaulMc7]

Your forgetting a pretty important thing here driver changeovers. Yes it may be accessible to Cumbernauld but where is the changeover going to be when the driver is based in ravenscraig. Caledonia’s change over for X3 is in BBS ten minutes from the depot and on a cycle with all ex Cumbernauld routes. I stand by what I said it’s bonkers.

There is no demand for a Motherwell to Cumbernauld bus service. The journey can be done by train in 20 minutes why would anyone want to take a bus?

I agree with the issue with changeovers for the X3 but demand for a Motherwell to Cumbernauld service could definitely be a possibility if a route was carefully and smartly thought out. Are those trains not 1 an hour too? If a bus service was cheaper with a route that offered solid connections it could definitely be a viable option for the future

 

[lastbus]

I agree with the issue with changeovers for the X3 but demand for a Motherwell to Cumbernauld service could definitely be a possibility if a route was carefully and smartly thought out. Are those trains not 1 an hour too? If a bus service was cheaper with a route that offered solid connections it could definitely be a viable option for the future

And what would your suggestion for the route be? IMO it’s a non starter

 

[PaulMc7]

And what would your suggestion for the route be? IMO it’s a non starter

Could extend some of the 254s from Newarthill or even the 242 from Holytown. At current times yes it's definitely a non starter. One for the future possibly

 

[alangla]

Presumably if you were to do that it would be up the A73, but that doesn’t look like particularly fertile ground for a route. Wouldn’t be surprised if going M8, M73, M80 is actually quicker, albeit longer.

 

[PaulMc7]

The A73 isn't a particularly great road north of Airdrie tbh from what I've experienced. It would definitely be a tough one to work out. Anyone got any other ideas for Ravenscraig related services?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Just saw a 75 branded E400MMC on the 60A and even more rare a 34/34A branded E200MMC on the 2! They seem to have given up on branded buses staying on particular routes in recent weeks. Glasgow is so big that they have a history of following the branding codes at first then as time goes on it becomes a struggle and the branding disappears.

 

[PaulMc7]

Just saw a 75 branded E400MMC on the 60A and even more rare a 34/34A branded E200MMC on the 2! They seem to have given up on branded buses staying on particular routes in recent weeks. Glasgow is so big that they have a history of following the branding codes at first then as time goes on it becomes a struggle and the branding disappears.

Beginning to look like the branding on new buses was a bit of a waste tbh. Even the 9 branded buses pop up loads of services. The new buses without branding look good so I think they should just bring them and scatter them around on different services instead of just focusing them all on a handful of routes

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Beginning to look like the branding on new buses was a bit of a waste tbh. Even the 9 branded buses pop up loads of services. The new buses without branding look good so I think they should just bring them and scatter them around on different services instead of just focusing them all on a handful of routes

I like the branding, I think it makes the liveries look less bland. The older stock suits the new livery so much more compared to the Enviro buses with the huge purple panel at the front. It’ll be interesting to see how Aberdeen’s coloured front will look against the green livery.

Going back to Overground days that eventually fizzled out after time as it was too hard to keep buses confined to the one route.

 

[PaulMc7]

I like the branding, I think it makes the liveries look less bland. The older stock suits the new livery so much more compared to the Enviro buses with the huge purple panel at the front. It’ll be interesting to see how Aberdeen’s coloured front will look against the green livery.

Going back to Overground days that eventually fizzled out after time as it was too hard to keep buses confined to the one route.

Yeah I remember the Overground days even though I was a kid at the time. Problem with the new branding is they need to use new colours and stick to them. Wouldn't want any repeat colours like the 18 and 241 have red already. Strange as well that considering Lanarkshire isn't affected by LEZ the 241,242 and 254 have new branded buses already. Would have thought all of the new buses would have went on Glasgow services

 

[route101]

I like the branding, I think it makes the liveries look less bland. The older stock suits the new livery so much more compared to the Enviro buses with the huge purple panel at the front. It’ll be interesting to see how Aberdeen’s coloured front will look against the green livery.

Going back to Overground days that eventually fizzled out after time as it was too hard to keep buses confined to the one route.

And simplicity fizzled out too , just a marketing thing.

 

[route101]

Just saw a 75 branded E400MMC on the 60A and even more rare a 34/34A branded E200MMC on the 2! They seem to have given up on branded buses staying on particular routes in recent weeks. Glasgow is so big that they have a history of following the branding codes at first then as time goes on it becomes a struggle and the branding disappears.

65 branded e200mmc on 7 other day , you think its easy to keep them on 65

 

[route101]

I agree with the issue with changeovers for the X3 but demand for a Motherwell to Cumbernauld service could definitely be a possibility if a route was carefully and smartly thought out. Are those trains not 1 an hour too? If a bus service was cheaper with a route that offered solid connections it could definitely be a viable option for the future

Must of been a good bit of dead running when Cumbernuald done some of the 18 .

Train is better value in a lot of cases , eg P shaws east £1.45 return to Glasgow with railcard .

 

[PaulMc7]

Must of been a good bit of dead running when Cumbernuald done some of the 18 .

Train is better value in a lot of cases , eg P shaws east £1.45 return to Glasgow with railcard .

Even now I still don't understand why Cumbernauld having any of the 18 made sense. Yeah definitely. I had a look at some old bus pictures earlier and all day tickets used to be £2/2.20 in the early 2000s. Was £4 when the 204/205/215/216 were still the Dumbarton buses so it actually shows in recent years the prices haven't actually gone up so much. £4.70 on the bus now for an all day and the 1s will have been a thing for 7 years at the beginning of November

 

[SarahDFIG]

Your forgetting a pretty important thing here driver changeovers. Yes it may be accessible to Cumbernauld but where is the changeover going to be when the driver is based in ravenscraig. Caledonia’s change over for X3 is in BBS ten minutes from the depot and on a cycle with all ex Cumbernauld routes. I stand by what I said it’s bonkers.

There is no demand for a Motherwell to Cumbernauld bus service. The journey can be done by train in 20 minutes why would anyone want to take a bus?

Where does the Blantyre drivers changeover for the X11, Motherwell Aldi right ? so that's roughly 15minutes if they have the van/minibus. Cumbernauld would be an extra 10 minutes for an driver to perform an changeover from the craig if they done it .. stand by my words "Not Bonkers".

In regards to the branding ... I am an firm believer in thinking that they branded the buses to make the fleet stand out for any potential buyers. First don't care about the punter. Fact

 

[Jordan Adam]

In regards to the branding ... I am an firm believer in thinking that they branded the buses to make the fleet stand out for any potential buyers. First don't care about the punter. Fact

Branding increases the profile of a service = more passengers.

 

[PaulMc7]

Branding increases the profile of a service = more passengers.

Have any of the services with branded buses had a big passenger increase? I'm not a regular user of any of the services with new buses that are branded but the likes of the 18, 38s and 75 etc were always very busy services even before branding

 

[Jordan Adam]

Have any of the services with branded buses had a big passenger increase? I'm not a regular user of any of the services with new buses that are branded but the likes of the 18, 38s and 75 etc were always very busy services even before branding

I couldn't comment, however it should be noted that branding is only part of the way to increase usage. Additionally having a colour coded network with colour coded buses also helps tourists and those new to the city. They see a red bus with a big number 18 and East Kilbride on the side, they then know the 18 goes to East Kilbride etc. Obviously some branding works better than others, First's is good however they should really include the 'key locations' on the offside too like they do on single deckers.

 

[PaulMc7]

I couldn't comment, however it should be noted that branding is only part of the way to increase usage. Additionally having a colour coded network with colour coded buses also helps tourists and those new to the city. They see a red bus with a big number 18 and East Kilbride on the side, they then know the 18 goes to East Kilbride etc. Obviously some branding works better than others, First's is good however they should really include the 'key locations' on the offside too like they do on single deckers.

Yeah definitely. I think all of the core routes should be constantly branded tbh but the problem with that is that then branding needs changed if they make any frequency or route changes. Another thing I've heard from people is that they'd use the bus if it was more reliable. If congestion was handled by the council far more effectively then passenger numbers would increase. Frequency of a service is another thing I've heard mentioned as an off putter for potential customers. I can understand it but the problem with that is to get more frequent services people need to use them first. Cost is also another thing but I don't think the bus is that bad considering the price of fuel has went up 50/60p a litre since around 2000

 

[CM]

Where does the Blantyre drivers changeover for the X11, Motherwell Aldi right ? so that's roughly 15minutes if they have the van/minibus. Cumbernauld would be an extra 10 minutes for an driver to perform an changeover from the craig if they done it .. stand by my words "Not Bonkers".

In regards to the branding ... I am an firm believer in thinking that they branded the buses to make the fleet stand out for any potential buyers. First don't care about the punter. Fact

Why on earth would you run routes to/from Cumbernauld from a depot away down in Ravenscraig, have drivers belting up and down the M74 all day in a daft wee van when changeovers can be EASILY carried out at Buchanan Bus Station with services based at Caledonia which is only 10 minutes drive away. So yes, it IS bonkers.

 

[lastbus]

Where does the Blantyre drivers changeover for the X11, Motherwell Aldi right ? so that's roughly 15minutes if they have the van/minibus. Cumbernauld would be an extra 10 minutes for an driver to perform an changeover from the craig if they done it .. stand by my words "Not Bonkers".

In regards to the branding ... I am an firm believer in thinking that they branded the buses to make the fleet stand out for any potential buyers. First don't care about the punter. Fact

They don’t go to Motherwell by van so you clearly don’t know what your talking about. Do you know anything about scheduling or drivers rosters no?

 

[SarahDFIG]

not going to argue with you

Anyway back to current operations of the group.

201 branding has been reported suspended/cancelled **fleet movements suggested**
69041 - Now on running board at Scotstoun Depot (already been out past few days)
39142 - reported to be going back to ADL.
Enviro 400sLH will be converted to E6 for Glasgow operations.

Good day

 

[Jordan Adam]

not going to argue with you

Anyway back to current operations of the group.

201 branding has been reported suspended/cancelled **fleet movements suggested**
69041 - Now on running board at Scotstoun Depot (already been out past few days)
39142 - reported to be going back to ADL.
Enviro 400sLH will be converted to E6 for Glasgow operations.

Good day

Any chance you could send 26 E300s to Aberdeen, in return we can give you the lovely 63193 to 63218.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Where does the Blantyre drivers changeover for the X11, Motherwell Aldi right ? so that's roughly 15minutes if they have the van/minibus. Cumbernauld would be an extra 10 minutes for an driver to perform an changeover from the craig if they done it .. stand by my words "Not Bonkers".

In regards to the branding ... I am an firm believer in thinking that they branded the buses to make the fleet stand out for any potential buyers. First don't care about the punter. Fact

Sorry but I disagree. X3 is best operated by Caledonia with driver breaks and relief changes being done at Buchanan along with 88, X85 and so on. I suppose ideally all of the former Cumbernauld routes which other than the X3 run in the Strathkelvin area would be better operated from a depot in Kirkintilloch if they had one instead of Glasgow but we all know in today's financial climate there's no chance of committing to that investment.

The gold branding on express routes was applied 2-3 years ago long before the break up was announced.