First Greater Glasgow

[PaulMc7]

Yeah Barrhead seems to have missed the First bus , they used to run the 103 evening service.

Yeah I can vaguely remember that. Mcgills are there for the taking tbh. Even Erskine has been problematic and they're the only company there. The ticket pricing of the XP23 didn't help them though

 

[route101]

I think the 38 is definitely up there with the worst buses for bunching up but I think that's the frequency more than anything. The 1s are also bad for it. Today there was a 1,1A,1B and a 1D all due within a minute and a 1C due a stop away too

I think they had bunching on the 75 too , might be due to the doors e400mmcs.

 

[PaulMc7]

Dont get the impression the 90 is reliable . It is well used around peak times .A decker is on it 3 -4 to go on it at peak time , im sure it used to be more frequent too.

Seen a blue branded b9tl on 60a today , not 61 branded.

Yeah the 90 is very often late. Understandable though as I've heard drivers say even Byres Road itself can add 15mins at busy times. Yeah I've seen a few with the 61 branding and a few without it

 

[route101]

Yeah the 90 is very often late. Understandable though as I've heard drivers say even Byres Road itself can add 15mins at busy times. Yeah I've seen a few with the 61 branding and a few without it

There was a pink 68 full size e200mmc on the 65 too .

 

[Scott mac]

I think they had bunching on the 75 too , might be due to the doors e400mmcs.

77 is bad for that as well

 

[PaulMc7]

77 is bad for that as well

Yeah the amount of traffic lights along Bath Street and Dumbarton Road can cause that with the 77 plus getting out of Buchanan Bus Station is horrendously busy

 

[156478]

I think the thing that could break Mcgills hold there is definitely new buses on the 9s. If they ever did feel like challenging though it's got to be using Silverburn as a route through to Barrhead. Mcgills 3 is only every 30mins and the 395 is 1 an hour. An extension to the 10 could be used for that

Part of me says new buses for the 9/9A yes, but part of me says no.

YES-
Competitive advantage, however McGills already have a very decent service with a mix of well presented Wright Eclipses and Mercs.
Customer creature comforts, USB chargers would come in handy as its a slow bus journey along Paisley Road.
Those pink Eclipses are tired, the seats are well worn. Wrights Body work and a good well tuned and maintained Volvo engine are a good combination, but they can't go on forever.

NO
Cost- high costs of purchase in a very tough financial climate.
Competition- McGills and First are currently offering cheaper Day or Return tickets- this must be eating away at the profit margins of both companies. Theres other routes they could put brand new expensive buses on and recoup costs quicker to please the accountants. The myth of people thinking a bus is making money because it's half full needs to be broken. The harsh economics of running buses is lost on a significant amount of the general public.
Your run of the mill customer will not care if the bus is brand new or not. The refurbished Geminis on the 61 show that you can take a timeless design- the Gemini and heavily refurbish it, put private plates on them and fool a lot of people into thinking they are new at a fraction of the cost of new. How many customers really care about the age of the bus? As long as its getting them from A to B, the average customer who wont care about whether its an MMC or a B10BLE or a PS TYPE, ALX400, an ex London Trident or a Gemini Mark 2. If the Eclipses for the 9/9A at the same time of the cosmetic external work had the interior refurb of the Geminis you would undoubtedly have got a better end product on the 9/9A- but would it be justified especially by the bean counters and trying to justify the expense to Group HQ?



At this stage of competiton on this route - it's very mature and goes right back to deregulation and even before that.
You will have people who will travel with McGills because they like getting change and travel on other McGills services in Renfrewshire, and people who will travel with First who travel on other First services in Glasgow and like the marginally quicker journey due to the use of vaults. Some will choose First as they also run the N9 and First can get you into Glasgow from Paisley much earlier first thing in the morning than the 38 and the last 9 from Glasgow is later than the last 38 and there's the N9 at the weekend, some will choose McGills because they are more frequent between Paisley and Glasgow. Others will stick to one operator as they dont like the other operator for whatever reason. First customers will use First as they have always used First and might have used Strathclyde Buses years ago, McGills Customers could have used Arriva or Dicksons of Erskine in the past.

Its one of the very few routes in Scotland where competition has survived- and long may it continue.

 

[PaulMc7]

Part of me says new buses for the 9/9A yes, but part of me says no.

YES-
Competitive advantage, however McGills already have a very decent service with a mix of well presented Wright Eclipses and Mercs.
Customer creature comforts, USB chargers would come in handy as its a slow bus journey along Paisley Road.
Those pink Eclipses are tired, the seats are well worn. Wrights Body work and a good well tuned and maintained Volvo engine are a good combination, but they can't go on forever.

NO
Cost- high costs of purchase in a very tough financial climate.
Competition- McGills and First are currently offering cheaper Day or Return tickets- this must be eating away at the profit margins of both companies. Theres other routes they could put brand new expensive buses on and recoup costs quicker to please the accountants. The myth of people thinking a bus is making money because it's half full needs to be broken. The harsh economics of running buses is lost on a significant amount of the general public.
Your run of the mill customer will not care if the bus is brand new or not. The refurbished Geminis on the 61 show that you can take a timeless design- the Gemini and heavily refurbish it, put private plates on them and fool a lot of people into thinking they are new at a fraction of the cost of new. How many customers really care about the age of the bus? As long as its getting them from A to B, the average customer who wont care about whether its an MMC or a B10BLE or a PS TYPE, ALX400, an ex London Trident or a Gemini Mark 2. If the Eclipses for the 9/9A at the same time of the cosmetic external work had the interior refurb of the Geminis you would undoubtedly have got a better end product on the 9/9A- but would it be justified especially by the bean counters and trying to justify the expense to Group HQ?



At this stage of competiton on this route - it's very mature and goes right back to deregulation and even before that.
You will have people who will travel with McGills because they like getting change and travel on other McGills services in Renfrewshire, and people who will travel with First who travel on other First services in Glasgow and like the marginally quicker journey due to the use of vaults. Some will choose First as they also run the N9 and First can get you into Glasgow from Paisley much earlier first thing in the morning than the 38 and the last 9 from Glasgow is later than the last 38 and there's the N9 at the weekend, some will choose McGills because they are more frequent between Paisley and Glasgow. Others will stick to one operator as they dont like the other operator for whatever reason. First customers will use First as they have always used First and might have used Strathclyde Buses years ago, McGills Customers could have used Arriva or Dicksons of Erskine in the past.

Its one of the very few routes in Scotland where competition has survived- and long may it continue.

Yeah the main reason I'd upgrade the buses is more to do with the condition of the current buses. The competition aspect has been great tbh. I'd definitely say that anytime I've seen a 9/9A they do tend to busier especially between Cardonald and Glasgow City Centre. I can understand that though as Mcgills dominate Paisley purely because of how greatly positioned Johnstone Depot and Inchinnan Depot are for the routes that start in Paisley. I definitely think First could make use of their depot positions a bit more by adding a city centre link through to Drumchapel like the old 42 route because the 1C certainly wouldn't suit everyone and not everyone likes a change of bus in their journey plus the stock on the 400 that Avondale operate is horrendous. Could even use the 81 as a way of going against Avondale for Parkhall too by having different routes. There's plenty of other things they could do tbh and I'm sure between us all we could rebuild their entire network as effectively as possible. Would be intriguing to know the finances involved around a lot of the routes

 

[PaulMc7]

Another thing I always wonder about is if First could bring back some customers who ditched their buses due to reliability issues. I feel like there's some services that will always be at major risk of being late almost all day. The buses between Clydebank and Scotstoun are very bad for being on time at Clydebank then nearly 10mins late by Scotstoun purely because most of them are supposed to take 3 or 4 minutes from Mill Road to Scotstoun

 

[christopherrfc]

United buses are extending their 13 service to Baillieston to replace service 2

Bus registration details

• Registration number
  PM1074566/7
• Licence Number
  PM1074566

• Variation number
  0

• Status
  New

• Service number.
  13,

• Service type
  Normal Stopping

• Start point
  Baillieston, South Scott Street
• Finish point
  Coatbridge, South Circular Road
• Via
  Bargeddie, Dykehead Road

• Date received
  01 Aug 2019
• Effective date
  18 Aug 2019
• End date

• Supported by subsidies?
  No

• Local authorities covered by route
  Strathclyde Partnership for Transport

• TAOs covered by route
  Scotland

Registration history
PM1074566/7 0 New Manual 01 Aug 2019 18 Aug 2019

 

[PaulMc7]

United buses are extending their 13 service to Baillieston to replace service 2

Bus registration details

• Registration number
  PM1074566/7
• Licence Number
  PM1074566

• Variation number
  0

• Status
  New

• Service number.
  13,

• Service type
  Normal Stopping

• Start point
  Baillieston, South Scott Street
• Finish point
  Coatbridge, South Circular Road
• Via
  Bargeddie, Dykehead Road

• Date received
  01 Aug 2019
• Effective date
  18 Aug 2019
• End date

• Supported by subsidies?
  No

• Local authorities covered by route
  Strathclyde Partnership for Transport

• TAOs covered by route
  Scotland

Registration history
PM1074566/7 0 New Manual 01 Aug 2019 18 Aug 2019

Smart move tbh. Only annoying thing for a lot of people I've seen mention the reaction to the 2 going is that a lot of the people who used the 2 used it beyond Baillieston. Extra cost too as it's 2 different operators if they require beyond Baillieston

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Part of me says new buses for the 9/9A yes, but part of me says no.

YES-
Competitive advantage, however McGills already have a very decent service with a mix of well presented Wright Eclipses and Mercs.
Customer creature comforts, USB chargers would come in handy as its a slow bus journey along Paisley Road.
Those pink Eclipses are tired, the seats are well worn. Wrights Body work and a good well tuned and maintained Volvo engine are a good combination, but they can't go on forever.

NO
Cost- high costs of purchase in a very tough financial climate.
Competition- McGills and First are currently offering cheaper Day or Return tickets- this must be eating away at the profit margins of both companies. Theres other routes they could put brand new expensive buses on and recoup costs quicker to please the accountants. The myth of people thinking a bus is making money because it's half full needs to be broken. The harsh economics of running buses is lost on a significant amount of the general public.
Your run of the mill customer will not care if the bus is brand new or not. The refurbished Geminis on the 61 show that you can take a timeless design- the Gemini and heavily refurbish it, put private plates on them and fool a lot of people into thinking they are new at a fraction of the cost of new. How many customers really care about the age of the bus? As long as its getting them from A to B, the average customer who wont care about whether its an MMC or a B10BLE or a PS TYPE, ALX400, an ex London Trident or a Gemini Mark 2. If the Eclipses for the 9/9A at the same time of the cosmetic external work had the interior refurb of the Geminis you would undoubtedly have got a better end product on the 9/9A- but would it be justified especially by the bean counters and trying to justify the expense to Group HQ?



At this stage of competiton on this route - it's very mature and goes right back to deregulation and even before that.
You will have people who will travel with McGills because they like getting change and travel on other McGills services in Renfrewshire, and people who will travel with First who travel on other First services in Glasgow and like the marginally quicker journey due to the use of vaults. Some will choose First as they also run the N9 and First can get you into Glasgow from Paisley much earlier first thing in the morning than the 38 and the last 9 from Glasgow is later than the last 38 and there's the N9 at the weekend, some will choose McGills because they are more frequent between Paisley and Glasgow. Others will stick to one operator as they dont like the other operator for whatever reason. First customers will use First as they have always used First and might have used Strathclyde Buses years ago, McGills Customers could have used Arriva or Dicksons of Erskine in the past.

Its one of the very few routes in Scotland where competition has survived- and long may it continue.

Interesting discussion, I still think First are in a stronger position than McGills, surely first could hurt mcgills much more if they pushed west into paisley centre and especially with the unpopular change mcgills made to the 23 erskine bus.

McGills eclipse don't appeal to be any such quality over firsts eclipses, I understand first do have some old doubles which were done up and they do feel nicer inside, but the older eclipse on firsts 9 are rather poor indeed.

For a major city the public transport integration is rather poor, there's been rumours about glasgow that spt will buy First Glasgow buses, is this true? Would that mean that a day ticket bought on the bus could also be used on the subway?

After visiting Edinburgh last Christmas edinburgh have a really good team going and very nice buses

 

[PaulMc7]

Interesting discussion, I still think First are in a stronger position than McGills, surely first could hurt mcgills much more if they pushed west into paisley centre and especially with the unpopular change mcgills made to the 23 erskine bus.

McGills eclipse don't appeal to be any such quality over firsts eclipses, I understand first do have some old doubles which were done up and they do feel nicer inside, but the older eclipse on firsts 9 are rather poor indeed.

For a major city the public transport integration is rather poor, there's been rumours about glasgow that spt will buy First Glasgow buses, is this true? Would that mean that a day ticket bought on the bus could also be used on the subway?

After visiting Edinburgh last Christmas edinburgh have a really good team going and very nice buses

I'd love for SPT to buy them over tbh. Could be smart because they'll probably cater more to poorly served areas that First currently don't. Yeah I'm surprised First have not attempted something in Erskine because the whole price increase to the XP23 when it was brought in and the constant cuts to the 23 have both been received badly

 

[route101]

Interesting discussion, I still think First are in a stronger position than McGills, surely first could hurt mcgills much more if they pushed west into paisley centre and especially with the unpopular change mcgills made to the 23 erskine bus.

McGills eclipse don't appeal to be any such quality over firsts eclipses, I understand first do have some old doubles which were done up and they do feel nicer inside, but the older eclipse on firsts 9 are rather poor indeed.

For a major city the public transport integration is rather poor, there's been rumours about glasgow that spt will buy First Glasgow buses, is this true? Would that mean that a day ticket bought on the bus could also be used on the subway?

After visiting Edinburgh last Christmas edinburgh have a really good team going and very nice buses

Yeah the first eclipses are tired . Grubby and stink . The McGills are are better nick , different ages of them up to 11 plate .

 

[route101]

Yeah the amount of traffic lights along Bath Street and Dumbarton Road can cause that with the 77 plus getting out of Buchanan Bus Station is horrendously busy

Coming out the new hospital at peak city bound can have bad delays too but welcomed deckers on the route .

 

[PaulMc7]

Coming out the new hospital at peak city bound can have bad delays too but welcomed deckers on the route .

Yeah the Clyde tunnel traffic from about half 3 til 6ish is horrendous. Can end up with 3 buses together just because of that

 

[PaulMc7]

What would you guys think First could do to compete more for Renfrewshire with Mcgills? I had the perfect forum designed for this stuff and what we do if we were in charge of routes etc but when I created one it got moved to an inactive one and there was 1 reply after it Could have gained so much traction plus I knew the other forum was inactive so that's why I created one in the first place

 

[KGGXXXY]

What would you guys think First could do to compete more for Renfrewshire with Mcgills? I had the perfect forum designed for this stuff and what we do if we were in charge of routes etc but when I created one it got moved to an inactive one and there was 1 reply after it Could have gained so much traction plus I knew the other forum was inactive so that's why I created one in the first place

I wouldn't call the other thread inactive, last had a post on Thursday, might just be that no one has any further ideas at present. I would post your above mcgills rival question in that thread too see if anyone replies.

 

[PaulMc7]

I wouldn't call the other thread inactive, last had a post on Thursday, might just be that no one has any further ideas at present. I would post your above mcgills rival question in that thread too see if anyone replies.

Yeah will do. Last time I checked the thread the last couple of posts in it were me lol

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Just saw a ALX400 at the QEUH. All the services round there are Scotstoun run now. It looked like it was in service but was too far away to be 100% sure. Anyone know if one may have been loaned to Scotstoun?

 

[christopherrfc]

Just saw a ALX400 at the QEUH. All the services round there are Scotstoun run now. It looked like it was in service but was too far away to be 100% sure. Anyone know if one may have been loaned to Scotstoun?

Isn’t the 34a still not at Caledonia depot might have been on that

 

[route101]

Just saw a ALX400 at the QEUH. All the services round there are Scotstoun run now. It looked like it was in service but was too far away to be 100% sure. Anyone know if one may have been loaned to Scotstoun?

90 , I've seen them on that ?

 

[route101]

Isn’t the 34a still not at Caledonia depot might have been on that

It is caley but can't run with decker s

 

[Jordan Adam]

Just saw a ALX400 at the QEUH. All the services round there are Scotstoun run now. It looked like it was in service but was too far away to be 100% sure. Anyone know if one may have been loaned to Scotstoun?

Possibly just on a maintenance run. None of the ALX400s were on services to/via QEUH today.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

What would you guys think First could do to compete more for Renfrewshire with Mcgills?

Absolutely zero chance of this happening. Their predecessors Clydeside (McGills) and Strathclyde's buses (First) were in competition with each other throughout the 80s and 90s. Strathclyde extended to Erskine, Johnstone, Linwood, Bridge of Weir and Kilbarchan whereas Clydeside extended cross-city to Garthamlock and Balornock. They also had some routes to Darnley and Pollok Centre. Both operators eventually retreated with Strathclyde retaining a presence in Linwood until First withdrew from there in 2013. Clydeside (before Arriva took over) also ended up with the Govan to city centre market for themselves. I can only assume the reason for the retrenchment was because both operators were racking up losses whilst trying to compete.

First's priority in Glasgow is to meet LEZ requirements which will cost them a significant amount of money for the next few years. You've got to understand that running buses is a serious business and not a child's plaything. Funding from external income factors have reduced gradually over the years affecting all bus operators who have had to adjust their businesses to suit. What also doesn't help is the decline of the High Street and that is evident in a number of towns and the likes of Paisley and Johnstone are two examples of that.

 

[PaulMc7]

Absolutely zero chance of this happening. Their predecessors Clydeside (McGills) and Strathclyde's buses (First) were in competition with each other throughout the 80s and 90s. Strathclyde extended to Erskine, Johnstone, Linwood, Bridge of Weir and Kilbarchan whereas Clydeside extended cross-city to Garthamlock and Balornock. They also had some routes to Darnley and Pollok Centre. Both operators eventually retreated with Strathclyde retaining a presence in Linwood until First withdrew from there in 2013. Clydeside (before Arriva took over) also ended up with the Govan to city centre market for themselves. I can only assume the reason for the retrenchment was because both operators were racking up losses whilst trying to compete.

First's priority in Glasgow is to meet LEZ requirements which will cost them a significant amount of money for the next few years. You've got to understand that running buses is a serious business and not a child's plaything. Funding from external income factors have reduced gradually over the years affecting all bus operators who have had to adjust their businesses to suit. What also doesn't help is the decline of the High Street and that is evident in a number of towns and the likes of Paisley and Johnstone are two examples of that.

I was a business student btw so yeah I do understand. I merely suggested the idea never said it was definitely gonna happen and I know where the priority is and the millions it's gonna cost

 

[NorthClyde320]

The way McGill's is going at present with cuts and more cuts the next step could well be a sell out. Would the mmc allow Stagecoach to move further up the Clyde Coast to Inverclyde and Renfrewshire as I can't think of any other group that would be interested, except maybe WCM.

Apologies for going off topic.

 

[PaulMc7]

The way McGill's is going at present with cuts and more cuts the next step could well be a sell out. Would the mmc allow Stagecoach to move further up the Clyde Coast to Inverclyde and Renfrewshire as I can't think of any other group that would be interested, except maybe WCM.

Apologies for going off topic.

Wouldn't be surprised tbh. The speed ticket prices are going up too is pretty crazy. The only thing that could make Mcgills prices look reasonable is the fact the train to Renfrewshire/Inverclyde is very expensive. Train from Paisley to Largs last time I went was £12.80 a return but their all day on the 904 was £4.90. Would make Glasgow travel a bit uncertain though for which direction it was going if both First and Mcgills were up for sale

 

[ClydeCoaster]

Remember First Glasgow also took on McGills with their 901 and 901X services from Glasgow to Largs in 2008. First were using 07-plate distinctively branded B7TLs with the 901X cutting out Greenock town centre and instead running along Drumfrochar Road. The First buses were more prone to random acts of vandalism in the Greenock scheme than McGills, I believe...

As for McGills 904, it’s usually the domain of very tired Citaros and B7RLEs and I’d say at least once a month you’ll see one waiting for a recovery truck in Largs.

 

[PaulMc7]

Remember First Glasgow also took on McGills with their 901 and 901X services from Glasgow to Largs in 2008. First were using 07-plate distinctively branded B7TLs with the 901X cutting out Greenock town centre and instead running along Drumfrochar Road. The First buses were more prone to random acts of vandalism in the Greenock scheme than McGills, I believe...

As for McGills 904, it’s usually the domain of very tired Citaros and B7RLEs and I’d say at least once a month you’ll see one waiting for a recovery truck in Largs.

Yeah I think that's a big problem just now. A lot of stock is growing old and not performing as well quicker than companies can get the buses in. Was on a 1D earlier and the driver had to fully restart the bus at Stockwell Street as there was a loud beeping noise the full way from just before Anderston