First Greater Glasgow

[smtglasgow]

I suspect that the current network works OK. Individual routes – or sections of route – might be struggling a bit, but the fact that First can keep on grinding out £10m a year in profits in the current environment probably means they shouldn’t be shaking things up.

Unfortunately, if anything is going to happen it will probably be cuts at the edges or more frequency reductions. Hard to see where growth is going to come from, but there is a lot of new housing going up in places like Cathkin or Robroyston. There’s also lots of new build in the East End – the gap sites that have been there forever are gradually getting filled. There’s a huge development next to Dalmarnock Bridge that’s going to make the 18 even busier and a lot of new flats at Parkhead (and plans to build 140 houses on the old Parkhead depot site).

Hopefully a new owner might be a bit bolder about trying to build up services from the newer estates – always get the feeling that First find Robroyston too difficult.

 

[PaulMc7]

I suspect that the current network works OK. Individual routes – or sections of route – might be struggling a bit, but the fact that First can keep on grinding out £10m a year in profits in the current environment probably means they shouldn’t be shaking things up.

Unfortunately, if anything is going to happen it will probably be cuts at the edges or more frequency reductions. Hard to see where growth is going to come from, but there is a lot of new housing going up in places like Cathkin or Robroyston. There’s also lots of new build in the East End – the gap sites that have been there forever are gradually getting filled. There’s a huge development next to Dalmarnock Bridge that’s going to make the 18 even busier and a lot of new flats at Parkhead (and plans to build 140 houses on the old Parkhead depot site).

Hopefully a new owner might be a bit bolder about trying to build up services from the newer estates – always get the feeling that First find Robroyston too difficult.

I think one of the main things First also lack is consistent promotional skills. They've been great with the newest sets of buses but even going back to when Simplicity came in and even 'the one' before that they just kinda happened with not too much explanation. I remember leaving for college and being confused as to why my bus said a 1 and was a double decker and I remember many other passengers being the same and then taking a while to realise the difference between the 1 and 1A routes.

 

[route101]

On a note though, when we do we think the next major set of changes will come? Simplicity has worked to an extent but when will be the next type of thing like that? I think it depends on the sale more than anything

Always thought simplicity was half baked , they changed come numbers but not all .

 

[route101]

I think the First Glasgow network is fine the way it is. For example the 60-60A-61 makes up a 5 minutes service from Gallowgate to Maryhill and the 38 family of routes running frequently from Shawlands to Alexandra Parade. These are pretty good services which a number of UK cities would be happy with.

It would be nice if they could extend more in the likes of Renfrewshire or North Lanarkshire but for economic reasons that might not be wise.

They used to have more services out to Renfrewshire like the x6 and 9 to Linwood .

 

[route101]

Seen a few articles of people being fuming by the cuts to the 2 and 16 in particular and it got me thinking. Why do these services have dwindling numbers of passengers if so many people are outraged? The cut to the 4 from Knightswood back to Broomhill and what happened after the X4 started are the biggest cases of this I remember. A lot of people in Knightswood wanted an express bus instead of a long bus to town yet when they got it it's so quiet out with peak times. I feel like a lot of people clearly don't know what they want or don't appreciate the service that they have at times

Yeah have noticed the x4 being quiet , though i usually see it only over St Enochs . Been on a few buses last few days and ive quite often been the only non concession person on it , tend to find that on the wee routes.

 

[route101]

I remember when The Overground was launched in 1999 they said the routes wouldn't change for at least 10 years but that only lasted for a couple of years before they started to change them. I think it would be next to impossible for any bus operator, big or small, to have a route left unchanged for 10 years, so many circumstances and factors change over the years, even months.

There is routes that never change in Glasgow like the 5 and 61 .

 

[PaulMc7]

Yeah have noticed the x4 being quiet , though i usually see it only over St Enochs . Been on a few buses last few days and ive quite often been the only non concession person on it , tend to find that on the wee routes.

Yeah I've been on it into the city centre from Lincoln Avenue and very often there's been 10 people or less on it. Can genuinely see it going to 1 an hour soon enough if nothing changes. Not surprised with the 16 cut too as the 3 and 6A are frequent enough to cover the Drumchapel to Blairdardie section

 

[JumpinTrainz]

They used to have more services out to Renfrewshire like the x6 and 9 to Linwood .

First just don’t really seem to like taking on the competition. I mean Cumbernauld is the prime example. They could also easily extend out into Renfrewshire again. The 9 at one stage went to Linwood then was cut back. They seem to be keeping things more compact.

The 9 will hopefully receive new branded buses in the next order. WiFi, power sockets and stopping announcements is a massive improvement to the current B7RLEs. That would put up a fight towards McGills.

 

[PaulMc7]

First just don’t really seem to like taking on the competition. I mean Cumbernauld is the prime example. They could also easily extend out into Renfrewshire again. The 9 at one stage went to Linwood then was cut back. They seem to be keeping things more compact.

The 9 will hopefully receive new branded buses in the next order. WiFi, power sockets and stopping announcements is a massive improvement to the current B7RLEs. That would put up a fight towards McGills.

The only company First seem to have fought for anything was JMB with the 240 and the North Lanarkshire all day deal. They could easily win over some of renfrewshire and I think the new buses on the 9/9A could definitely make a difference. Could compete with the 7 for Linwood again or even to Johnstone with the 9 too. I don't see any of that happening but it's a thought lol

 

[Bus Lightyear]

The only reason we can assume why First don't run the X6 to Bridge of Weir and the 9 to Linwood is because there wasn't enough demand.

The 9 hasn't had any new buses on it for a good number of years which likely tells us it isn't making a good enough return but the routes that First have been recently allocating new buses like the 18 and 65 hadn't received any for a long time so you never know.

 

[PaulMc7]

The only reason we can assume why First don't run the X6 to Bridge of Weir and the 9 to Linwood is because there wasn't enough demand.

The 9 hasn't had any new buses on it for a good number of years which likely tells us it isn't making a good enough return but the routes that First have been recently allocating new buses like the 18 and 65 hadn't received any for a long time so you never know.

Would think the likes of the 1s, 2, 3 and maybe 6 would be up for new buses at some point soon to allow them to move around some of their buses. Would be interesting to figure how they decide which routes get the new buses because with what routes have them just now it's hard to tell.

 

[route101]

Would think the likes of the 1s, 2, 3 and maybe 6 would be up for new buses at some point soon to allow them to move around some of their buses. Would be interesting to figure how they decide which routes get the new buses because with what routes have them just now it's hard to tell.

Dont think the 6 is going to get new buses soon , seen a few e200mmc on it of late.

 

[PaulMc7]

Dont think the 6 is going to get new buses soon , seen a few e200mmc on it of late.

Yeah I've seen a couple of them too

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Would think the likes of the 1s, 2, 3 and maybe 6 would be up for new buses at some point soon to allow them to move around some of their buses. Would be interesting to figure how they decide which routes get the new buses because with what routes have them just now it's hard to tell.

I’d say that’s a good call. The 1, 2, 3 and 6 are busy routes.

The E300s/E200MMCs could be cascaded on to other routes to retire the remaining B10BLEs, B7Ls, ex-London tridents. Also it could probably start to see the withdrawal or cascade of some of the B7RLEs.

It would be nice to see the E400s receive a mid life refurb and cascaded on to other services perhaps out of Caledonia to oust some of the B7TLs. They have been straying as of the past few years now on to other routes so perhaps the 6 doesn’t require decker capacity anymore.

 

[PaulMc7]

I’d say that’s a good call. The 1, 2, 3 and 6 are busy routes.

The E300s/E200MMCs could be cascaded on to other routes to retire the remaining B10BLEs, B7Ls, ex-London tridents. Also it could probably start to see the withdrawal or cascade of some of the B7RLEs.

It would be nice to see the E400s receive a mid life refurb and cascaded on to other services perhaps out of Caledonia to oust some of the B7TLs. They have been straying as of the past few years now on to other routes so perhaps the 6 doesn’t require decker capacity anymore.

Yeah I've seen the deckers from the 6 pop up on even the likes of the 57 and 60A in particular. I think the 6 would definitely still require deckers at peak time but out with then the 10 min frequency with singles could probably work.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Why are First repainting 53 plate Solar L94s when there are buses screaming out for a new paint job. Even the 65 plate E200MMCs and E400MMCs are starting to look a little grubby. Plus the branding needs to be reapplied for the express services and did properly.

 

[PaulMc7]

Why are First repainting 53 plate Solar L94s when there are buses screaming out for a new paint job. Even the 65 plate E200MMCs and E400MMCs are starting to look a little grubby. Plus the branding needs to be reapplied for the express services and did properly.

Seen one of those 53 plate buses on an 8 of all things earlier. Seen that the double deckers from the 61 with the light blue paint are on the 60/60A too and seen and been on a couple of 54 plate deckers on the 90 now too lately

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Seen one of those 53 plate buses on an 8 of all things earlier. Seen that the double deckers from the 61 with the light blue paint are on the 60/60A too and seen and been on a couple of 54 plate deckers on the 90 now too lately

Yes I’ve seen more deckers appear on the 90 too as of late. 9/10 they are almost empty at each place I’ve saw them around the city. It’s interesting how the 90 had new Streetlites on them then suddenly swapped to the 34/34A and replaced with older B7RLEs again... the 90 has received new buses twice and twice had them taken away shortly after introduction. Is the 90 a big money maker?

I’ve also saw the 61 branded B9TLs straying on to Kirky routes and mainly 60/60A. Are anymore B9TLs being refurbished as there’s still a few going around with the original colour schemes. Surely the ex-FSE B9TLs could be candidates for a good refurb. The 60/60A needs new buses.

 

[PaulMc7]

Yes I’ve seen more deckers appear on the 90 too as of late. 9/10 they are almost empty at each place I’ve saw them around the city. It’s interesting how the 90 had new Streetlites on them then suddenly swapped to the 34/34A and replaced with older B7RLEs again... the 90 has received new buses twice and twice had them taken away shortly after introduction. Is the 90 a big money maker?

I’ve also saw the 61 branded B9TLs straying on to Kirky routes and mainly 60/60A. Are anymore B9TLs being refurbished as there’s still a few going around with the original colour schemes. Surely the ex-FSE B9TLs could be candidates for a good refurb. The 60/60A needs new buses.

I think the 90 in certain areas would make decent money but because the route is absolutely massive it probably doesn't make much overall plus there are a lot of concession card users over the full route. Yeah the 60/60A could be improved considering it's very busy and another massive route. New buses would be great for it but there seems to be a theme with the new buses that the routes they appear on aren't any of the longest ones. Don't think we will get any on the 2 hour plus routes for a while yet although there's a few of those routes. 3,6,8,90 spring to mind

 

[alangla]

There’s all sorts of oddball stuff going on just now, seen 75 branded E400s on the X87, an NI plated but unbranded B9 on the X3, an 18 branded E400 on an X1 and a 242 branded E200 on an X11 and that’s just in the last day or so. Is there a lot of stuff off for MoTs or something?

 

[christopherrfc]

dont forget most services are still on the summer timetables thats why the branded buses will be used on other services

 

[lastbus]

There’s all sorts of oddball stuff going on just now, seen 75 branded E400s on the X87, an NI plated but unbranded B9 on the X3, an 18 branded E400 on an X1 and a 242 branded E200 on an X11 and that’s just in the last day or so. Is there a lot of stuff off for MoTs or something?

There is an 18 board that does an X1 am/pm peak. Also it was a branded 241 on the X11 not 242 this was covering a breakdown. It’s also an Overtown bus and the X11 is run by Blantyre so it was pulled from the 241 on street to cover the X11 from Cleland.

 

[PaulMc7]

dont forget most services are still on the summer timetables thats why the branded buses will be used on other services

Thankfully only another week of the summer timetable. Even on the every 12 mins schedule the 3 and 6 in particular tend to come in 2s or 3s

 

[156478]

The only reason we can assume why First don't run the X6 to Bridge of Weir and the 9 to Linwood is because there wasn't enough demand.

The 9 hasn't had any new buses on it for a good number of years which likely tells us it isn't making a good enough return but the routes that First have been recently allocating new buses like the 18 and 65 hadn't received any for a long time so you never know.

They don’t run the X6 as they never wanted to run the X6 and the X7 in the First place. Dart Buses collapsed- Dart went to Arriva and Stagecoach for help and both refused so First got a tip off things were wrong and jumped in to replace Dart Buses. The X6 and the X7 each ran hourly to Kilmacolm or BOW and unless you had a FirstCard- ah remember those, they also charged premium fares on them. There was even premium FirstDay tickets for the route.

They withdrew the X7 from Kilmacolm and barely batted an eyelid when Slaemuir ran on the X7.

Then all of a sudden when McGills took over from Slaemuir on a more frequent X7 that served Braehead that’s when there was finally a little bit of interest - First keeping the X6 to miss out Braehead and magically some newer buses with branding showed up- they then gave up as McGills we’re beating them on quality and it wasn’t a route they really wanted as it was operationally out on a limb.

Then McGills took over from Arriva and again people chose McGills and the 9 came off from Linwood. First have salted the earth in Linwood- they can’t go back, It’s McGills patch and it will be very hard to break the customer loyalty - McGills give change and have a good modern service there these days.

 

[PaulMc7]

They don’t run the X6 as they never wanted to run the X6 and the X7 in the First place. Dart Buses collapsed- Dart went to Arriva and Stagecoach for help and both refused so First got a tip off things were wrong and jumped in to replace Dart Buses. The X6 and the X7 each ran hourly to Kilmacolm or BOW and unless you had a FirstCard- ah remember those, they also charged premium fares on them. There was even premium FirstDay tickets for the route.

They withdrew the X7 from Kilmacolm and barely batted an eyelid when Slaemuir ran on the X7.

Then all of a sudden when McGills took over from Slaemuir on a more frequent X7 that served Braehead that’s when there was finally a little bit of interest - First keeping the X6 to miss out Braehead and magically some newer buses with branding showed up- they then gave up as McGills we’re beating them on quality and it wasn’t a route they really wanted as it was operationally out on a limb.

Then McGills took over from Arriva and again people chose McGills and the 9 came off from Linwood. First have salted the earth in Linwood- they can’t go back, It’s McGills patch and it will be very hard to break the customer loyalty - McGills give change and have a good modern service there these days.

I think the thing that could break Mcgills hold there is definitely new buses on the 9s. If they ever did feel like challenging though it's got to be using Silverburn as a route through to Barrhead. Mcgills 3 is only every 30mins and the 395 is 1 an hour. An extension to the 10 could be used for that

 

[route101]

Thankfully only another week of the summer timetable. Even on the every 12 mins schedule the 3 and 6 in particular tend to come in 2s or 3s

Yeah , seen that on the 6 , poor spacing . Also seen it on 38 recently with 4 38s in a row at the BAth St stop . I guess its hard on long routes.

Im going to use the 6 tomorrow to town , sometimes i just miss one then wait 20 mins for the next.

 

[route101]

I think the thing that could break Mcgills hold there is definitely new buses on the 9s. If they ever did feel like challenging though it's got to be using Silverburn as a route through to Barrhead. Mcgills 3 is only every 30mins and the 395 is 1 an hour. An extension to the 10 could be used for that

Yeah Barrhead seems to have missed the First bus , they used to run the 103 evening service.

 

[PaulMc7]

Yeah , seen that on the 6 , poor spacing . Also seen it on 38 recently with 4 38s in a row at the BAth St stop . I guess its hard on long routes.

Im going to use the 6 tomorrow to town , sometimes i just miss one then wait 20 mins for the next.

I think the 38 is definitely up there with the worst buses for bunching up but I think that's the frequency more than anything. The 1s are also bad for it. Today there was a 1,1A,1B and a 1D all due within a minute and a 1C due a stop away too

 

[route101]

I think the 90 in certain areas would make decent money but because the route is absolutely massive it probably doesn't make much overall plus there are a lot of concession card users over the full route. Yeah the 60/60A could be improved considering it's very busy and another massive route. New buses would be great for it but there seems to be a theme with the new buses that the routes they appear on aren't any of the longest ones. Don't think we will get any on the 2 hour plus routes for a while yet although there's a few of those routes. 3,6,8,90 spring to mind

Dont get the impression the 90 is reliable . It is well used around peak times .A decker is on it 3 -4 to go on it at peak time , im sure it used to be more frequent too.

Seen a blue branded b9tl on 60a today , not 61 branded.

 

[route101]

I’d say that’s a good call. The 1, 2, 3 and 6 are busy routes.

The E300s/E200MMCs could be cascaded on to other routes to retire the remaining B10BLEs, B7Ls, ex-London tridents. Also it could probably start to see the withdrawal or cascade of some of the B7RLEs.

It would be nice to see the E400s receive a mid life refurb and cascaded on to other services perhaps out of Caledonia to oust some of the B7TLs. They have been straying as of the past few years now on to other routes so perhaps the 6 doesn’t require decker capacity anymore.

6 for sure needs its deckers , can be some gaps at peaks .