First Greater Glasgow

[PaulMc7]

The 38B is needed as its the only service from Greenfield and Springboig to city centre. Its also the only service on Warriston Street.

The 46 provides a service from Castlemilk to Rutherglen and Parkhead, Bridgeton to Denistoun and Parkhead and Cranhill (its only bus service) and Greenfield/Springboig to Parkhead and The Fort.

These are important routes with very long established links but given the pressures on the bus industry these days you couldn't rule out some of these links being broken especially after whats happened to service 2. Hopefully it wont come to that.

I think the 38B and 46 are pretty solid services tbh. 38B is always been fairly busy and it's also the only link from Barlanark to Carntyne, bottom of Riddrie etc. The 46 has always been really busy too when I've been on it. Bit slow from Rutherglen to Parkhead but as it's the south part of Abercromby Streets only bus I highly doubt it'll go. Need to have at least 1 bus an area arguably and the 46 does a lot of areas with nothing much else outside of the middle of the route

 

[EMU303]

Are F Glasgow reducing the pvr because there’s too many buses or because they want to squeeze out more profit margin to make it more attractive to sell the company?

 

[PaulMc7]

Are F Glasgow reducing the pvr because there’s too many buses or because they want to squeeze out more profit margin to make it more attractive to sell the company?

I see it as a bit of both tbh. Could phase out old stock more and if there's services that aren't making enough profit they should go. I'm surprised the X4 still exists tbh. Never seen it busy outside peaks

 

[Volvodart]

I mentioned before the December 2019 deadline for 40% LEZ compliant buses in the zone and no more new buses coming by then.

 

[overthewater]

How much of the fleet in Glasgow is compliant?

New money making service:

PM0000001/634 Registered
FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
Route: City Centre, West Regent Street to S.E.C / The SSE Hydro via Congress Road, Congress Way, Lancefield Quay, Anderston Quay, Broomielaw, Oswald Street, Hope Street, West Regent Street.
Service number: X5 ()
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 27 Sep 2019
Service will operate on selected events taking place at S.E.C or The SSE Hydro. Upto 90 minutes prior to event commencing and at intervals of every 10 minutes or less. Return journeys will operate at intervals of every 10 minutes or less after the event finishes for upto a period of 90 minutes.

 

[CM]

How much of the fleet in Glasgow is compliant?

New money making service:

PM0000001/634 Registered
FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
Route: City Centre, West Regent Street to S.E.C / The SSE Hydro via Congress Road, Congress Way, Lancefield Quay, Anderston Quay, Broomielaw, Oswald Street, Hope Street, West Regent Street.
Service number: X5 ()
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 27 Sep 2019
Service will operate on selected events taking place at S.E.C or The SSE Hydro. Upto 90 minutes prior to event commencing and at intervals of every 10 minutes or less. Return journeys will operate at intervals of every 10 minutes or less after the event finishes for upto a period of 90 minutes.

It'll make about £3. They keep trying a shuttle between the City Centre and the S.E.C.C. and every time it lasts about a week before it gets pulled.

 

[Jordan Adam]

It'll make about £3. They keep trying a shuttle between the City Centre and the S.E.C.C. and every time it lasts about a week before it gets pulled.

I'd suspect the service is probably in partnership with the SECC and as such partially (or fully) subsidised.

 

[CM]

I'd suspect the service is probably in partnership with the SECC and as such partially (or fully) subsidised.

I very much doubt it as I'm pretty sure it hasn't been subsidised by the S.E.C.C. in the past which is why the service has never lasted.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I honestly think scaling back services (particularly non profitable routes) may actually be the way to go. First Glasgow have a rather large fleet and many of those buses are not LEZ compliment. There are still B7Ls about not to mention a huge number of B7Ls about, 03/53 plate tridents/Gemini’s, B7RLEs and the oldest B9TLs will be 15 by the time 2022 arrives. As much as a lot of new stock has arrived in a short space of time, there is still a massive part of the fleet that needs replacing.

On a separate note thought I saw an ex-airport E200MMC in new blue colours parked outside the depot.

 

[SarahDFIG]

Please remember only routes running into the city centre need to be E6 to meet the LEZ. Not every vehicle in the network needs to be E6.

2 more large orders of doubles and singles would easily cover the LEZ requirements.

9/9a will receive new vehicles in the next order. I do not know what other services will get new vehicles just yet.

Other services outside the LEZ will be getting new vehicles just like Lanarkshire.

We are slowly getting the older vehicles retired with the all B7Ls & most Scania's now off frontline services with less than a handful on the spare/reserve fleet. B10BLEs will be staying at Dumbarton for the time being. I Think they are trying to stop replacing tired vehicles with tired vehicles as it turns into an endless circle which is the reason why the B7Ls and Scania's have not replaced them and the fact the B10BLEs maintenance record is amazing for their age compared to the other vehicles.

Not sure if any the ex hutchison Scania's will be saved but I am guessing at least one will be.

 

[overthewater]

One problem most of the crap routes are outside the LEZ zone....

edit: Snap.

 

[SarahDFIG]

Noticed a 65 plate E400mmc that had been repainted .

I am pretty sure I seen one last week in bodyshop getting new panels fitted. If so then this would have got the new livery applied. There was an streetlight sitting as well with new panels possibly an Blantyre vehicle.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Please remember only routes running into the city centre need to be E6 to meet the LEZ. Not every vehicle in the network needs to be E6.

2 more large orders of doubles and singles would easily cover the LEZ requirements.

9/9a will receive new vehicles in the next order. I do not know what other services will get new vehicles just yet.

Other services outside the LEZ will be getting new vehicles just like Lanarkshire.

We are slowly getting the older vehicles retired with the all B7Ls & most Scania's now off frontline services with less than a handful on the spare/reserve fleet. B10BLEs will be staying at Dumbarton for the time being. I Think they are trying to stop replacing tired vehicles with tired vehicles as it turns into an endless circle which is the reason why the B7Ls and Scania's have not replaced them and the fact the B10BLEs maintenance record is amazing for their age compared to the other vehicles.

Not sure if any the ex hutchison Scania's will be saved but I am guessing at least one will be.

The 60/60A and 41 has a number of B7TLs and B7RLEs on it daily. The 61 is mainly covered by B9TLs but as of recent I’ve seen more B7TLs on it with the occasional B7RLE as for some reason they’ve been using the branded B9s on the Kirky routes. The 57 also mainly has B7TLs on it.

It’ll be interesting to see what they plan to do. If they are going to try and transfer the B7RLEs and B7TLs or whether they’ll just replace them. I’ve said it before but I think if they were really sensible they would pull this off no problem. Replacing the E300s (which baring in mind are about 7 years old now) on the 1, 2 and 3 services would release not only E300s but E200MMCs which could be used on Kirky routes, Caledonia routes which could oust the remainder of B7Ls and start to withdraw the B7RLEs. As for deckers they’re going to need a good number to oust the remaining tridents and B7TLs.

I get not everywhere is affected by by LEZ but there’s still a lot of buses which aren’t LEZ compliment/aren’t being converted.

 

[PaulMc7]

The 60/60A and 41 has a number of B7TLs and B7RLEs on it daily. The 61 is mainly covered by B9TLs but as of recent I’ve seen more B7TLs on it with the occasional B7RLE as for some reason they’ve been using the branded B9s on the Kirky routes. The 57 also mainly has B7TLs on it.

It’ll be interesting to see what they plan to do. If they are going to try and transfer the B7RLEs and B7TLs or whether they’ll just replace them. I’ve said it before but I think if they were really sensible they would pull this off no problem. Replacing the E300s (which baring in mind are about 7 years old now) on the 1, 2 and 3 services would release not only E300s but E200MMCs which could be used on Kirky routes, Caledonia routes which could oust the remainder of B7Ls and start to withdraw the B7RLEs. As for deckers they’re going to need a good number to oust the remaining tridents and B7TLs.

I get not everywhere is affected by by LEZ but there’s still a lot of buses which aren’t LEZ compliment/aren’t being converted.

I'd definitely get new buses in for the 1s and 2s in particular. Would free up a lot of stock to go onto other routes with older buses. The buses on the 1s lately haven't seemed to be in great condition and I've seen all sorts on the X4 too. Not surprising though as the expressway takes a lot out of anything on it

 

[CM]

I'd definitely get new buses in for the 1s and 2s in particular. Would free up a lot of stock to go onto other routes with older buses. The buses on the 1s lately haven't seemed to be in great condition and I've seen all sorts on the X4 too. Not surprising though as the expressway takes a lot out of anything on it

The expressway has a speed limit of 50mph on it which these days, most buses can sit at that without much effort. If anything "takes it out" of a bus on the 1 series of routes it'll be the length of the services themselves, especially the Helensburgh runs. If anything the Helensburgh runs should be cut back to Dumbarton, reduced in frequency and smaller vehicles used as I seriously doubt there is enough passengers using that section to warrant vehicles the size of the E300s. Those freed up E300s could then be used on other 1 series routes to improve reliability.

 

[awsnews]

The expressway has a speed limit of 50mph on it which these days, most buses can sit at that without much effort. If anything "takes it out" of a bus on the 1 series of routes it'll be the length of the services themselves, especially the Helensburgh runs. If anything the Helensburgh runs should be cut back to Dumbarton, reduced in frequency and smaller vehicles used as I seriously doubt there is enough passengers using that section to warrant vehicles the size of the E300s. Those freed up E300s could then be used on other 1 series routes to improve reliability.

Depends if the sun is shining, on a nice day the 1B can get busy, almost as busy as when the trains go off! The savings from curtailing at Dumbarton would free up three buses at best from the 1/A/B but you would probably require two buses to comfortably achieve an hourly frequency on Helensburgh to Dumbarton. In times past McColl's did half hourly with two buses but it didn't take much to get delayed.
Outside of the peak there are already spare buses anyway, the biggest issue is congestion but that is by no means unique to 'the one' routes

 

[PaulMc7]

The expressway has a speed limit of 50mph on it which these days, most buses can sit at that without much effort. If anything "takes it out" of a bus on the 1 series of routes it'll be the length of the services themselves, especially the Helensburgh runs. If anything the Helensburgh runs should be cut back to Dumbarton, reduced in frequency and smaller vehicles used as I seriously doubt there is enough passengers using that section to warrant vehicles the size of the E300s. Those freed up E300s could then be used on other 1 series routes to improve reliability.

If the vehicles were there at Dumbarton I'd have all the 1/1A/1B go City Centre to Dumbarton and then extend some 206s to Helensburgh then cover the Balloch to Dumbarton route with a new service

The 1s are very often late so I'd definitely cut the route a bit to try and improve it

 

[route101]

I'd definitely get new buses in for the 1s and 2s in particular. Would free up a lot of stock to go onto other routes with older buses. The buses on the 1s lately haven't seemed to be in great condition and I've seen all sorts on the X4 too. Not surprising though as the expressway takes a lot out of anything on it

Seen more eclipses on the x4 of late , one of which yesterdy sounded like it was about to go kaput.
I see the pink fronted e200MMCs that were on the 2 have been let loose on other routes such as 7 , 64 , 65 and a rarity a 4 .

 

[route101]

I honestly think scaling back services (particularly non profitable routes) may actually be the way to go. First Glasgow have a rather large fleet and many of those buses are not LEZ compliment. There are still B7Ls about not to mention a huge number of B7Ls about, 03/53 plate tridents/Gemini’s, B7RLEs and the oldest B9TLs will be 15 by the time 2022 arrives. As much as a lot of new stock has arrived in a short space of time, there is still a massive part of the fleet that needs replacing.

On a separate note thought I saw an ex-airport E200MMC in new blue colours parked outside the depot.

Ex airport E200mmcs are going down south i think .

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Seen more eclipses on the x4 of late , one of which yesterdy sounded like it was about to go kaput.
I see the pink fronted e200MMCs that were on the 2 have been let loose on other routes such as 7 , 64 , 65 and a rarity a 4 .

I’ve saw them on the 61 and 60 numerous times too. It will be interesting to see if the 9 gets new buses whether they would be moved on to the 9 as their permanent home at Scotstoun.

Wonder when new buses will be announced and whether it will be in to 2020 now.

 

[PaulMc7]

Seen an unbranded 68 plate decker on a 2 earlier in the city centre. Could see the 2 going every 10 minutes with new deckers as it can be very busy a lot of the day

 

[lastbus]

Seen an unbranded 68 plate decker on a 2 earlier in the city centre. Could see the 2 going every 10 minutes with new deckers as it can be very busy a lot of the day

The 2 is far too busy to go every 10 minutes even with deckers.

From what I’ve been told there will be no more new buses this year apart from the electric E200s.

Should know more about upcoming service changes soon but there will be cuts to PVR especially in the city.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

From STV News - https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1440203-first-bus-drivers-in-glasgow-could-strike-over-cuts

'First bus drivers in Glasgow could strike over service cuts'
'Drivers believe slashing running times and recovery times will endanger the public's safety.'

First bus drivers in Glasgow could strike due to cuts in services.

Employees believe plans for running times and recovery times for drivers to be slashed, which are set to launch in October, will endanger the public's safety.

Unite the union also believes the move is aimed at increasing profits.


The organisation also believes there will be less buses available to the public.

The ballot will take place in September, with drivers expected to vote in favour of strike action.

Mick Dowds, Unite's national convener, said: "Unite members are furious that at a time when public safety is paramount and after Unite welcomed the speed awareness agreement alongside supporting other health and safety initiatives such as 'Destressing the Driver', First Glasgow is blatantly scurrying around with a new set of rosters.

"This will directly impact on drivers' well-being and could have a catastrophic effect on passengers and the public."

'This will directly impact on drivers' well-being and could have a catastrophic effect on passengers and the public.'
Mick Dowds, Unite's national convener
Andrew Jarvis, managing director of First Bus, said: "First Group announced some time ago that it intended to sell its passenger operations including its flagship First Glasgow company.

"This latest development highlights exactly why Unite has been calling on local authorities such as Glasgow to bring passenger services back into public and municipal ownership.

"This is essential to ensure services meet the needs of communities and those most vulnerable in society rather than having diminished services in the chase for profit."

"We are disappointed that our trade union colleagues have decided to go public with their concerns given we are at an early stage in the process. I can confirm that nothing as yet has been registered with the traffic commissioner's office and we are still very much in the consultation phase of the proposed network changes that Unite has raised concerns over.

"We are striving to make things better for the customer by making bus travel simple, speeding up bus boarding times, reducing journey times wherever possible, using data to make better operational decisions and developing a customer relationship as opposed to a transactional one. As part of this process, we are using data to assess our network performance across a number of areas including running time."

He added: "These proposals will be fully reviewed and tested as is our standard practice in this scenario and nothing as yet is set in stone. We would always seek the input of our trade union colleagues and staff in this scenario to ensure their feedback is taken into account.

"The safety of our staff, customers and other road users are our number one priority and this is something we will never compromise on. It is disappointing that our trade union colleagues have taken this decision at such an early stage in the process and we remain willing to discuss further to address their concerns."

 

[overthewater]

So I take it, its the very end of October these changes are planned for?

 

[smtglasgow]

The traffic is so variable there’s no ideal solution. I’m sure we’ve all been on buses that crawl along and sit at timing points – during the day you can get two or three buses at a time sitting at the Glasgow Cross stop waiting to go. But you still get bad bunching on long routes like the 1 or the 6. You get real oddities though. The 240 got extra running time within Glasgow last year and even in the peaks the buses can get to Parkhead minutes ahead of schedule so you get the mad situation of a full and standing bus sitting at a stop where no one can get on. Don’t suppose cutting recovery time will affect the service at quieter times, but at busy times – Friday afternoons – this is just asking for the service to collapse. Presumably this is where the PVR cuts are coming from?

 

[lastbus]

The traffic is so variable there’s no ideal solution. I’m sure we’ve all been on buses that crawl along and sit at timing points – during the day you can get two or three buses at a time sitting at the Glasgow Cross stop waiting to go. But you still get bad bunching on long routes like the 1 or the 6. You get real oddities though. The 240 got extra running time within Glasgow last year and even in the peaks the buses can get to Parkhead minutes ahead of schedule so you get the mad situation of a full and standing bus sitting at a stop where no one can get on. Don’t suppose cutting recovery time will affect the service at quieter times, but at busy times – Friday afternoons – this is just asking for the service to collapse. Presumably this is where the PVR cuts are coming from?

Yip this is a bonkers idea IMO unless they only cut it off peak.

 

[PaulMc7]

Yip this is a bonkers idea IMO unless they only cut it off peak.

The 1s by the time they get passed clydebank coming from Dumbarton can be 20 mins late off peak tbh so even then it's a risky game to play by cutting recovery time

 

[GaryMcEwan]

The 18 now sits outside The Crystal Bell on the Gallowgate for at least 3-5 minutes now, and there's been occasions where drivers on the buses behind have put passengers on the bus in front as they can't leave.

 

[PaulMc7]

As I was saying about the 1s, this pic is a daily occurrence at anytime tbh

 

[PaulMc7]

Caught another good example of bunching with the 1s