First Class Dispute

[ScobbyDoo]

Good morning

Thank you for allowing me to join the forum. This is my first post so please forgive me if this is not the correct area, although I did read the forum guide and it seemed the most appropriate. I am looking for some advice. Here is the tale.

I commute three times a week from a small station at Broughty Ferry, just outside of Dundee, into Dundee itself. Specifically I travel on the 0839 from Broughty Ferry to Dundee, which takes all of about 5 minutes. Approximately 6 months ago by my best guess, the trains on this service which were a bit shabby were replaced by what I understand is called an "Inter7city".

As a commuter, and given there is no ticket purchase facility at Broughty Ferry, I use the Scotrail app to buy a return ticket which is then scanned by the conductor on board using the barcode. Unlike many other trains that stop at Broughty Ferry, when this particular train stops, only one door opens. That door is on a carriage marked with a green line on the outside which I believe is intended for disabled access.

Every day I do the same thing. I suspect photos will help, which unfortunately I do not have, but can take next time I board. I enter the carriage and turn right. I pass through at least one carriage, sometimes more depending on whether there are 4 or 7 carriages. The reason I do this is that the train only takes a few minutes, and I am trying to get to the exit of train which is closest to the entrance to the station so I can depart and get to work by 9. In any event, after passing through these carriages, I then pass the (closed) buffet and a single saloon style door which indicates the first class section.

A small but necessary diversion to my story here. When I first boarded this train, I sat in the first class section holding a standard class ticket. Against the rules, no doubt, but in my defence I used to do this on the older trains, and the conductors never seemed to mind. On this occasion (first time on the new train) I was politely and professionally advised that I was not permitted to sit there and I should make my way to the vestibule. I rose from my seat, made my way to the vestibule -after- the end of the first class carriage and stood in that area. The train conductor opened the door and I left without any issue.

Returning to my story. Since that day, I have always, when boarding this train proceeded through the entire length of the first class carriage, and stood beyond it. I may be using the wrong terminology (not a train expert) so to be clear - I walk into the first class carriage, I walk through the first class carriage, I walk out of the other door signifying the end of the first class carriage, I leave the footprint of that carriage entirely, and stand in what appears to be a dead space between the physical carriage. Beyond that there is no access, only a window into what seems to be a dark and empty "storage" part of the train connected to what I presume is the engine (again, not a train expert!).

I have done this for many months without issue. On every occasion the conductor stands next to me, opens the panel, opens the doors, and I always wait for the nod from them to depart, so I don't interrupt what they're attending to. No issue has ever been had. As you've probably gathered, today was different...

I stood in my usual spot, and saw the conductor approaching. Admittedly, not a conductor I'd met before. I offered him my barcode. The conversation proceeded as follows:

Conductor: [pointing to nearest door for passengers to use to embark train] You should not use this door to get on the train unless you have a first class ticket

Me: I did not use that door. I used the other door [pointing down carriages to "green door"] and then walked here

Conductor: That doesn't matter, you should not be stood -here- unless you have a first class ticket

Me: Is that so? I have to say that is surprising because I travel on this train 3 times a week, I always stand here, and no conductor has ever indicated that I should not be stood here.

Conductor: Well I don't know why that would be, because you shouldn't be stood here unless you have bought a first class ticket.

Now, another small divergence. You'll recall me saying there are no ticket purchase facilities at BFY, and that I use the app. It is not possible to buy a first class ticket from broughty ferry to Dundee on the app. I have queried this with train station staff at Dundee before, who have advised me this is correct, and by virtue of some oversight or anomaly it simply does not exist. Back to my conversation:

Me: I cannot buy a first class ticket, it doesn't exist

Conductor : Yes it does [checks handheld device for a few minutes]. Ok, you're right, it doesn't, but I can upgrade you for £15.

Now at this point I bit my tongue, but what I wanted to say was that I did not want to upgrade a ticket, I wanted to buy a single first class ticket. To my mind, if I board with no ticket (again NB there are no ticket purchase facilities at BFY), and if they cannot sell me a ticket, I don't really see how that's my problem.

My question then is this:

1. Who is in the right here? I have read conflicting opinions on whether where I was standing was part of the first class carriage or not. I can follow with photos, but my layman's view is that I was not, as I had left that space entirely and -remained- stood on the "dead space" carriage.

2. Supposing next time I board without any ticket, take a seat in first class (which, unrelated, is always 90% empty) and ask the conductor to sell me a first class ticket (which I know they cannot). Where do I stand (pardon the pun) when they cannot do so?

Thanks in advance!

SD

 

[John R]

What you are standing in is known as the vestibule, and it does indeed form part of the first class accommodation, particularly as there is no standard class beyond it to blur the exact diving line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, all of the first class vehicle is first class, including the doorways. You're fortunate that you're in Scotland otherwise this exchange may well have resulted in you having to fend off a prosecution (these are effectively not possible in Scotland).

 

[Haywain]

The train is advertised as conveying first class accommodation, and therefore you need a first class ticket in order to remain there. The fact that a first class ticket is not available for your journey does not alter that.

 

[Watershed]

Welcome to the forum.

1) It depends on the signage in the carriage. A carriage has to be labeled as first class for restrictions to apply; some operators have specific wording indicating that the vestibules are also considered to be first class accommodation, whilst others leave that element vague. I would suggest the fact that there are no more standard class carriages beyond there (just the locomotive) means it's probably deemed a first class coach though.

2) It's a very fair question. This is far from the only journey where there are trains with first class accommodation, but no first class fares. It's probably an oversight by ScotRail (you could ask them to introduce first class fares), having overlooked the fact that rolling stock changes mean there are now first class services for this journey.

In the meantime, from a legal perspective, the fact that no prices are shown at stations would suggest this might fall under section 51 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015. This dictates that where no specific price is agreed before a contract for services (e.g. train travel) is entered into:

the contract is to be treated as including a term that the consumer must pay a reasonable price for the service, and no more ... What is a reasonable price is a question of fact.

It would ultimately come down to a Court to determine whether the price that any conductor decides to charge you (e.g. by selling you a standard class single and a defined upgrade fare from a previous station) is "reasonable".

I'd suggest that for a journey which costs £3.20 for a return, charging an extra £15 for a one-way first class upgrade is clearly nowhere near "reasonable". If you look at other similar journeys, such as Haymarket to Edinburgh where the standard class fare is £4.60 return, the first class fare is £6.50. In fact, for a single journey the difference is even less - £3.40 first vs £3.00 standard. That gives a clear guide as to the kind of supplement that could be regarded as "reasonable".

Of course, there's not much point having an argument about the Consumer Rights Act onboard the train - but it does give you some recourse if another conductor has the same approach as the one you encountered today, and insists on charging you £15 for a 5-minute upgrade.

 

[LucyP]

You encountered a stickler for the rules. There is a way around this. You can buy a Standard Class ticket from Arbroath for £7.50, or a First Class for £9.80 (which makes a mockery of the conductor trying to charge you £15.00 to upgrade on a 8 minute journey from Broughty Ferry, when it is only £2.30 more for a 26 minute journey from Arbroath).

How can you be prosecuted for not having a ticket that you cannot buy, when you tried to buy the correct ticket. That prosecution would never stand.

Arbroath is the last station that you can buy a First Class ticket to Dundee. They are not available from Carnoustie, or Monifieth either.

 

[janb]

Re question 2, Arbroath to Dundee is £9.80 single First Class, and £18.50 day return. Not saying that qualifies as 'reasonable' but is more reasonable than £15.

 

[ScobbyDoo]

Can I just say a quick thank you to everyone who has taken the trouble to reply. You really are a helpful bunch!

I do still feel I'm not explaining the position very well vis-a-vis where I was standing so I'll try to grab some photos next week (assuming it's a conductor I know). More likely taking all your helpful information on board perhaps I'll realise that I am in the wrong, and very clearly stood in the wrong place!

The irony is that this first class coach does seem to have drinks, tea / coffee, etc, so I'd happily pay an extra quid for the comfort and a free cuppa on my commute, and still be winning!

 

[AlterEgo]

How can you be prosecuted for not having a ticket that you cannot buy, when you tried to buy the correct ticket. That prosecution would never stand.

It would, actually. It's a strict liability matter, although this was in Scotland so there would be no private prosecution.

Arbroath is the last station that you can buy a First Class ticket to Dundee. They are not available from Carnoustie, or Monifieth either.

Not relevant. That a fare isn't available is not grounds to be in first class accommodation without a valid first class ticket.

 

[Haywain]

I do still feel I'm not explaining the position very well vis-a-vis where I was standing so I'll try to grab some photos next week (assuming it's a conductor I know). More likely taking all your helpful information on board perhaps I'll realise that I am in the wrong, and very clearly stood in the wrong place!

If you've gone through the first class section to the end of the train the vestibule and everything up to the locked door still counts as first class.

 

[AlterEgo]

I walk into the first class carriage, I walk through the first class carriage, I walk out of the other door signifying the end of the first class carriage, I leave the footprint of that carriage entirely, and stand in what appears to be a dead space between the physical carriage. Beyond that there is no access, only a window into what seems to be a dark and empty "storage" part of the train connected to what I presume is the engine (again not a train expert!).

You are standing between first class and the power car (locomotive) then?

 

[furlong]

1) Take pictures showing the locations of the notices and the exact wording on them. That's the only thing that defines first class. When a conductor deals with someone in first class who shouldn't be, they should always point out the specific notice that is being contravened (and ideally take photos if they are considering prosecution, or make a contemporaneous record that the passenger has seen the notice so its presence can't be disputed later).

"Except with permission from an authorised person, no person shall remain in any seat, berth or any part of a train where a notice indicates that it is reserved for a specified ticket holder or holders of tickets of a specific class, except the holder of a valid ticket entitling him to be in that particular place."

"No person shall be subject to any penalty for breach of any of the Byelaws by disobeying a notice unless it is proved to the satisfaction of the Court before whom the complaint is laid that the notice referred to in the particular Byelaw was displayed."

2) As for what is a "reasonable" fare for the company to charge, I can think of three approaches. One would be to continue to apply the old rule of adding 50% to the standard fare in these situations. Another alternative would be to take the shortest journey that has a first class fare and includes your journey within it and reduce that fare proportionately according to the extra distance not travelled. Another alternative would be to look at the standard class to first class price ratio for that longer journey and apply the same ratio to the fare for your actual journey. And of course an alternative option would be not to charge anything extra, but they certainly can charge if they wish.

 

[LucyP]

As for a prosecution, the defendant has the defence of impossibility. How can he be required to purchase a ticket that is impossible to purchase? As I said, the prosecution would never stand.

Strict liability merely means that the prosecution do not have to prove intention.

 

[AlterEgo]

As for a prosecution, the defendant has the defence of impossibility. How can he be required to purchase a ticket that is impossible to purchase?

The offence does not require that a ticket fail to be purchased, only that the accused doesn't hold a valid one. It's not "the offence is that you could have bought this ticket but chose not to", simply this:

Except with permission from an authorised person, no person shall remain in any seat, berth or any part of a train where a notice indicates that it is reserved for a specified ticket holder or holders of tickets of a specific class, except the holder of a valid ticket entitling him to be in that particular place.

That a first class ticket is unavailable for a flow is immaterial and does not provide a defence in law to occupying the accommodation without the right ticket. There is no "defence of impossibility", which means "compliance with the law is literally impossible" - it's very simple: no first class ticket = don't occupy the accommodation. That is how one complies with it.

If you are going to insist that a prosecution "not stand", please show how, in relation to that Bylaw.

 

[JBuchananGB]

There is apparently a 7 day 1st class season from Balmossie to Dundee for £19.80, which works out at £6.60 per day for the 3 days per week which the OP travels. Can no doubt be purchased at Dundee. Whether or not this represents good value only the OP can judge.

 

[matchmaker]

You are standing between first class and the power car (locomotive) then?

It will be. That coach has the conductors office and buffet (if it's open...), the first class section and then the vestible adjoining the power car,

 

[furlong]

It will be.

Only if there is a notice there that conforms to the byelaw. And one answer for the OP is to travel in standard class but to time the walk to their desired exit so as never to "remain" in any area with the requisite notice.

 

[ott]

I understand your frustration, but in this case, the conductor was absolutely correct to ask you not to stand in that area.

First-class tickets come with added benefits such as comfort, privacy, and a quieter, less crowded space. Part of that experience includes easier boarding and alighting for first-class passengers. Allowing standard-class passengers to occupy vestibules in the first-class carriage defeats the purpose of that exclusivity. If everyone did this, first-class would no longer feel premium, and those who paid extra for a quieter and less stressful journey would not get what they paid for.

I know exactly where you’re referring to, and if I remember correctly, that vestibule is still within the first-class carriage, with clear branding both on the outside of the train and inside. There’s no reason to be in that section unless you hold a first-class ticket. The door you’ve been using to board is intended for first-class passengers, and standing in that vestibule effectively defeats the purpose of having First Class purchasable on trains
(in no way am I assuming that you are a big party-goer at near 9AM in the morning.. but think about if everybody does what you do, it no longer becomes quiet and peaceful for the community who have decided to use first class as a more enjoyable and relaxing experience.)

While I understand that you’re trying to save a couple of minutes when exiting, at the end of the day, that’s a minor convenience compared to the value that first-class passengers expect. The conductor was right to enforce the rule, and if anything, you’ve likely just been lucky that others haven’t said anything before. If you want to use that section, the fair thing to do would be to purchase a first-class ticket (if one is available).

Hope that clarifies things!

 

[yorkie]

... the fair thing to do would be to purchase a first-class ticket (if one is available)...

Can you advise on the fare for that?

 

[Ziggiesden]

Good morning

Thank you for allowing me to join the forum. This is my first post so please forgive me if this is not the correct area, although I did read the forum guide and it seemed the most appropriate. I am looking for some advice. Here is the tale.

I commute three times a week from a small station at Broughty Ferry, just outside of Dundee, into Dundee itself. Specifically I travel on the 0839 from Broughty Ferry to Dundee, which takes all of about 5 minutes. Approximately 6 months ago by my best guess, the trains on this service which were a bit shabby were replaced by what I understand is called an "Inter7city".

As a commuter, and given there is no ticket purchase facility at Broughty Ferry, I use the Scotrail app to buy a return ticket which is then scanned by the conductor on board using the barcode. Unlike many other trains that stop at Broughty Ferry, when this particular train stops, only one door opens. That door is on a carriage marked with a green line on the outside which I believe is intended for disabled access.

Every day I do the same thing. I suspect photos will help, which unfortunately I do not have, but can take next time I board. I enter the carriage and turn right. I pass through at least one carriage, sometimes more depending on whether there are 4 or 7 carriages. The reason I do this is that the train only takes a few minutes, and I am trying to get to the exit of train which is closest to the entrance to the station so I can depart and get to work by 9. In any event, after passing through these carriages, I then pass the (closed) buffet and a single saloon style door which indicates the first class section.

A small but necessary diversion to my story here. When I first boarded this train, I sat in the first class section holding a standard class ticket. Against the rules, no doubt, but in my defence I used to do this on the older trains, and the conductors never seemed to mind. On this occasion (first time on the new train) I was politely and professionally advised that I was not permitted to sit there and I should make my way to the vestibule. I rose from my seat, made my way to the vestibule -after- the end of the first class carriage and stood in that area. The train conductor opened the door and I left without any issue.

Returning to my story. Since that day, I have always, when boarding this train proceeded through the entire length of the first class carriage, and stood beyond it. I may be using the wrong terminology (not a train expert) so to be clear - I walk into the first class carriage, I walk through the first class carriage, I walk out of the other door signifying the end of the first class carriage, I leave the footprint of that carriage entirely, and stand in what appears to be a dead space between the physical carriage. Beyond that there is no access, only a window into what seems to be a dark and empty "storage" part of the train connected to what I presume is the engine (again not a train expert!).

I have done this for many months without issue. On every occasion the conductor stands next to me, opens the panel, opens the doors, and I always wait for the nod from them to depart, so I don't interrupt what they're attending to. No issue has ever been had. As you've probably gathered today was different...

I stood in my usual spot, and saw the conductor approaching. Admittedly, not a conductor I'd met before. I offered him my barcode. The conversation proceeded as follows:

Conductor: [pointing to nearest door for passengers to use to embark train] You should not use this door to get on the train unless you have a first class ticket

Me: I did not use that door. I used the other door [pointing down carriages to "green door"] and then walked here

Conductor: That doesn't matter, you should not be stood -here- unless you have a first class ticket

Me: Is that so? I have to say that is surprising because I travel on this train 3 times a week, I always stand here and no conductor has ever indicated that I should not be stood here.

Conductor: Well I don't know why that would be, because you shouldn't be stood here unless you have bought a first class ticket.

Now, another small divergence. You'll recall me saying there are no ticket purchase facilities at BFY, and that I use the app. It is not possible to buy a first class ticket from broughty ferry to dundee on the app. I have queried this with train station staff at Dundee before who have advised me this is correct, and by virtue of some oversight or anomaly it simply does not exist. Back to my conversation:

Me: I cannot buy a first class ticket, it doesn't exist

Conductor : Yes it does [checks handheld device for a few minutes]. Ok, you're right, it doesn't, but I can upgrade you for £15.

Now at this point I bit my tongue, but what I wanted to say was that I did not want to upgrade a ticket, I wanted to buy a single first class ticket. To my mind, if I board with no ticket (again NB there are no ticket purchase facilities at BFY), and if they cannot sell me a ticket, I don't really see how that's my problem.

My question then is this:

1. Who is in the right here? I have read conflicting opinions on whether where I was standing was part of the first class carriage or not. I can follow with photos but my layman's view is that I was not, as I had left that space entirely and -remained- stood on the "dead space" carriage.

2. Supposing next time I board without any ticket, take a seat in first class (which, unrelated is always 90% empty) and ask the conductor to sell me a first class ticket (which I know they cannot). Where do I stand (pardon the pun) when they cannot do so?

Thanks in advance!

SD

This is what is known as a training issue. Where there is no First Class Fare then you default to the instructions contained in the Retail Manual Part I, if the National Rail Manual (NRM) has no instruction (Rule created by the Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) when the NRM was created after privatisation). As an example, you take the SDS (Anytime Day Single) and then add 50%, using manual fares in your Ticket Issuing System issue the ticket, rounding as appropriate to 5p. To calculate other ticket types you use this guide, contained in the archived “The Manual”:

Transfer to First Class accommodation

National Rail Conditions of Carriage, Condition 39, allows a customer holding a ticket for travel in Standard accommodation to travel in First Class, on payment of an Excess fare. General principles for Excess fares are:

Single tickets

The difference between the price of the Single ticket held and price of the First Class Single ticket, available for immediate travel, for the journey being made.

Return tickets - change of class in both directions

The difference between the price of the Return ticket held and price of the First Class Return ticket, available for immediate travel, for the journey being made.

Return tickets - change of class in one direction

One of the following options, according to the ticket type held:

· Anytime/ Anytime Day Return = difference between the equivalent Standard and First Class Single fares;

· Off-Peak/Off-Peak Day, Super Off-Peak/Super Off-Peak Day = difference between the fare paid and the Standard Return plus the difference between the Standard Single and the First Class Single fare for the same route. If cheaper, the First Class Single fare.

Obviously, some promotional “upgrades” or a First Advance can beat this methodology as can SeatFrog for some operators, if you are buying in advance, depending on the journey.

Many in Train Operating Companies, and Rail Delivery Group itself, do not know this rule still exists as reorganisation has lost many an old Retail Instruction over the decades.

Yes, if you are in any part of First Class Accommodation, without authority, then a Standard Class ticket is invalid and you have joined the train without a valid ticket.

 

[Davester50]

You've been lucky in the past, and now know you don't have the correct ticket, so I'd just wait in the part of the train you do have a ticket for, problem solved!
I may very well be wrong, but it's my impression that the refreshment angle is what you're really after though, and not saving yourself the arduous 15 second walk.

 

[gray1404]

Walking through a first class carriage is fine. It's remaining in it that is the issue and that includes the areas by the doors.

 

[ott]

Can you advise on the fare for that?

If there isn’t a first class fare for that journey, then the train operating company has obviously acknowledged that it wouldn’t be feasible or reasonable to have a ticket (which would make complete sense for this very small journey)

 

[Ziggiesden]

This is what is known as a training issue. Where there is no First Class Fare then you default to the instructions contained in the Retail Manual Part I, if the National Rail Manual (NRM) has no instruction (Rule created by the Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) when the NRM was created after privatisation). As an example, you take the SDS (Anytime Day Single) and then add 50%, using manual fares in your Ticket Issuing System issue the ticket, rounding as appropriate to 5p. To calculate other ticket types you use this guide, contained in the archived “The Manual”:

Transfer to First Class accommodation

National Rail Conditions of Carriage, Condition 39, allows a customer holding a ticket for travel in Standard accommodation to travel in First Class, on payment of an Excess fare. General principles for Excess fares are:

Single tickets

The difference between the price of the Single ticket held and price of the First Class Single ticket, available for immediate travel, for the journey being made.

Return tickets - change of class in both directions

The difference between the price of the Return ticket held and price of the First Class Return ticket, available for immediate travel, for the journey being made.

Return tickets - change of class in one direction

One of the following options, according to the ticket type held:

· Anytime/ Anytime Day Return = difference between the equivalent Standard and First Class Single fares;

· Off-Peak/Off-Peak Day, Super Off-Peak/Super Off-Peak Day = difference between the fare paid and the Standard Return plus the difference between the Standard Single and the First Class Single fare for the same route. If cheaper, the First Class Single fare.

Obviously, some promotional “upgrades” or a First Advance can beat this methodology as can SeatFrog for some operators, if you are buying in advance, depending on the journey.

Many in Train Operating Companies, and Rail Delivery Group itself, do not know this rule still exists as reorganisation has lost many an old Retail Instruction over the decades.

Yes, if you are in any part of First Class Accommodation, without authority, then a Standard Class ticket is invalid and you have joined the train without a valid ticket.

I should point out that the "authority" is permission from the person in charge of the train or written authority from a Railway Officer. It should be noted that staff will generally offer to Excess you or ask you to move if you do not wish to pay.

 

[Dave_D]

There are might be a couple of areas where reasonable doubt might be a factor.

1) The regulation refers to remaining in first class accommodation. I’m not sure, if you were only there to use that particular door, would that count as remaining? If they don’t have cctv showing you remaining in first class, might bot look good for them.

Many people board trains at Euston, Kings X, Paddington and Liverpool Street and then walk though first class, has there ever been a notice or announcement prohibiting this?

2) What signage was there ? If you go through a sliding door to enter the 1st class accomodation, the door is clearly labelled first class, a reasonably person might consider that passing through a second, similar door marked first class, that you have then left the first class section.


3) Did the £15 upgrade apply on the day you travelled. If not l, I would have thought that they could only charge you the excess to a published fare. Surely they can’t just make up a fare?

Obviously it’s very easy to stand firm from behind a keyboard, in your shoes I would reply to their letter with these points. It’s either that, go to court or, offer to settle out of court.

It might also depend on what you have already said especially if you had admitted to remaining in first class.

Please note- I am not an expert.

 

[AlterEgo]

Obviously it’s very easy to stand firm from behind a keyboard, in your shoes I would reply to their letter with these points. It’s either that, go to court or, offer to settle out of court.

It might also depend on what you have already said especially if you had admitted to remaining in first class.

Please note- I am not an expert.

The OP isn't going to court. This is in Scotland.

 

[geoffkendall10]

There are might be a couple of areas where reasonable doubt might be a factor.

1) The regulation refers to remaining in first class accommodation. I’m not sure, if you were only there to use that particular door, would that count as remaining? If they don’t have cctv showing you remaining in first class, might bot look good for them.

Many people board trains at Euston, Kings X, Paddington and Liverpool Street and then walk though first class, has there ever been a notice or announcement prohibiting this?

2) What signage was there ? If you go through a sliding door to enter the 1st class accomodation, the door is clearly labelled first class, a reasonably person might consider that passing through a second, similar door marked first class, that you have then left the first class section.


3) Did the £15 upgrade apply on the day you travelled. If not l, I would have thought that they could only charge you the excess to a published fare. Surely they can’t just make up a fare?

Obviously it’s very easy to stand firm from behind a keyboard, in your shoes I would reply to their letter with these points. It’s either that, go to court or, offer to settle out of court.

It might also depend on what you have already said especially if you had admitted to remaining in first class.

Please note- I am not an expert.

No need for announcements at Euston etc as passenger is not "remaining" in the carriage

 

[Dave_D]

No need for announcements at Euston etc as passenger is not "remaining" in the carriage

That’s my point, the OP wasn’t remaining in the vestibule?

 

[LJA]

Is going right to the front of the train rather than just waiting in the furthest forward standard class carriage really making a material difference to the time it takes to exit the station

Although I recognise it’s sometimes more about the the principal and getting a “win” (from both the customer and staff members points of view…)

 

[Haywain]

Is going right to the front of the train rather than just waiting in the furthest forward standard class carriage really making a material difference to the time it takes to exit the station

Some people apparently think so.