Eastcoast43208
Member
This photo was taken in Coach M behind the powercar far end of the train.
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First Class "Boundary" onboard EC HST
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This photo was taken in Coach M behind the powercar far end of the train.
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musicking1306
Member
I found a sign on FGW HST in coach H (behind the power car with similar writing on it)
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Hello its me again, another general question for all.
in the doorway of all the First Class coaches on the MK3s there is a small sign that reads "Welcome to First Class" and a Small bit of Text Saying
"All areas beyond this notice including the Vestibule are for use by First Class Ticket holders only.
if you wish to travel in this area you will be charged the First Class fare for your Journey"
Now Here's the Question, if have a Standard class ticket and Boarded the train through the end door in Coach M, Behind the Powercar.
and I was only Travelling from Newcastle to Darlington for example, not a long Journey just under 30mins, Would i Be Breaking the rules ?
Ive had to do this a few times Boarding through a First Class door because the train was ready to depart and I dont mind standing on a Short Journey in this Little area where rarely anybody goes, plus Iam Behind the Powercar.
I Dont want to Disturb the Passengers in First class walking though so I usually would stay just there, in the past I would just walk Through to standard.
The only Issue is most Guards Dont mind me standing down there on a Short Journey, While other Guards have a really Big fit about it'
Now I completely understand that Because it is a first class coach, and i shouldn't really be there, But getting off at the next stop and doing no real harm, so Where is the Boundary or first class, the Sign or is just the Entire coach off limits ?
I have attached a Picture on the Sign
Feedback welcomed
Thanks guys.
Yes, obviously, you are breaking the rules. Buy a first class ticket if you want to travel in first class, even if you only want to stand up in first class.
The fact that the door is behind a power car or any other wibble is beside the point. IT IS A FIRST CLASS AREA. THE SIGN IS QUITE CLEAR. If you have a standard class ticket you travel in standard class or you pay the upgrade to first class.
oh and if you dont want to disturb the first class passengers, and here is a revolutionary idea for a standard class ticket holders, GET ON THE TRAIN IN STANDARD CLASS!
I also laugh at this I had to get on at that door because the train was leaving stuff. However, whilst there was insufficient time to board in standard class there was just enough time for you to get all the way down the platform, wibble about the power car, snap a few pics and jump on as the doors closed. You were very lucky not to miss it!
Finally; the rules apply to everyone. You do not get a special pass for being a spotter or HST nerd.
Thank you for your cooperation
heart-of-wessex
Established Member
I don't get on behind powercars due to the MTU, but before I would never class myself as 'needing a valenta pass' or something for my short 11-mile stint. If guards didn't want anything then fine that's up to them, but I always did offer a free first class voucher or part upgrade if need be.
As for joining coaches to get powercar numbers, I actually found there is enough time to get to standard class after anyway. Vice versa for Class 91 sets as the locos at the rear, but obviously there is no issues walking through standard to get to First Class, that was my choice.
The main victims when I'm in FC is at Paddington, time to relax but only then 1-2 minutes pre-departure, one massive hoard of late runners come through, panting and bashing bags all over the place, all heading through to standard...
As for joining coaches to get powercar numbers, I actually found there is enough time to get to standard class after anyway. Vice versa for Class 91 sets as the locos at the rear, but obviously there is no issues walking through standard to get to First Class, that was my choice.
The main victims when I'm in FC is at Paddington, time to relax but only then 1-2 minutes pre-departure, one massive hoard of late runners come through, panting and bashing bags all over the place, all heading through to standard...
Of course the sign also says 'beyond' it and so means any area past,they are by the entry door so mean anywhere inside the coach and VERY clearly say this includes the vestibules. I pay for First Class and I expect this to mean I get the service of that, which (unless there has been some problem and there are 1st class standing - very rare) means larger seats, wider aisles and clear vestibules. I do not expect people to stand/sit on bags etc in the areas I am paying more for. I have seen people on the ECML trying this and being moved on - I expect this to be the normal way such travelers are dealt with and not only by 'some guards'.
My thoughts exactly. I don't see the need to get into a debate on this issue, the rules are simple, a vestibule in a First Class carriage requites a First Class ticket. It rather 'derails' the atmosphere, and the point of paying to upgrade, if you've got people standing or sitting around outside.
The pun was not intentional!
Eastcoast43208
Member
Thank you all again, learn something new everyday as they say well I now know for future travelling and bashing no messing about in the first class vestibules, unless your travelling first class of course 
thank you again.
thank you again.
Thank you all again, learn something new everyday as they say well I now know for future travelling and bashing no messing about in the first class vestibules, unless your travelling first class of course
If you really want to stand in that First Class vesitbule you could always buy a First Class ticket. The seats aren't that bad either!
GNER 91128
Member
I find it very annoying when people do this on EC esp when leaving KGX.
Butts
Veteran Member
Yes there should be access to the roof by ladder and they should be forced to walk along the roof and back into 2nd class thus not sullying our peace and quiet
I think you might find the results of that, on quite a large portion of East Coasts route, to be quite 'shocking'.
Butts
Veteran Member
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Yes there should be access to the roof by ladder and they should be forced to walk along the roof and back into 2nd class thus not sullying our peace and quiet
To balance things out:
I say those in first class should be marched from the train somewhere near Doncaster , shot in the back of the head and dumped in an unmarked grave.
Their valuables shall be shared amongst the needy and their seats used, on a rota basis, by those of us in cattle class. Thier complimentary refreshments, which seem to bring them such pain and unhappiness will be shared amongst the greatful hungry poor oppressed workers in second class.
The class traitors on cheap rate super advanced bourgeoisie tickets shall be deleted first!
Yes there should be access to the roof by ladder and they should be forced to walk along the roof and back into 2nd class thus not sullying our peace and quiet
A little extreme. Bowing and doffing one's cap when one encounters a 1st class passenger should be adequate, after all we should know our place - and evidently that place is not to be in sight of 1st class passengers on any part of the journey.
AndyLandy
Established Member
In an ideal world, you'd arrive in good time for your train. Of course, sometimes this just doesn't work out. There have been the odd couple of occasions when I've only just made a train and jumped on at the First Class end. I just make my way quickly and quietly through to Standard accommodation.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I have little sympathy here. On an East Coast train the first class section is at the front end of the train. Other than Kings Cross i cant think of any other station on the route where you would need to board in first class at the last possible moment.
To get to first, unless the train is in reverse formation, you would have to walk past every second class coach. It is wibble, pure and simple.
Butts
Veteran Member
To balance things out:
The class traitors on cheap rate super advanced bourgeoisie tickets shall be deleted first!
A guy could develop a complex you know.....
GNER 91128
Member
The class traitors on cheap rate super advanced bourgeoisie tickets shall be deleted first!
Oh
I quite enjoy my Advanced FC when I go to EDB and back!
AndyLandy
Established Member
My specific example was catching a 444 from Waterloo. A delayed tube connection meant I was only just in time to catch my train. To ensure I caught my train, I jumped on at the First Class end and made my way down to Standard. I will only do this in exceptional circumstances and to date I believe I've only ever done it twice.
As for other stations, are you sure that all stations along the East Coast don't have the station entrance adjacent to the first class end of the platform?
Also, EC trains have 1st class at the Country end of the train? Really? This surprises me. I thought that being right up at the barriers in London was one of the perks of First?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
This thread is about East Coast not SWT, however you illustrate the point. At the terminal is the only time i can think of getting on in FC in an imminent departure situation.
Thinking about the EC stations i know well, i would say all have access near standard class. The first class is always going to be at the extreme end of one
platform.
(I should have said London End not front end. I was, however, referring to the OP when he said he traveling from Newcastle to Darlington, hence front)
The only other one I can think of is Edinburgh platforms nineteen and eleven.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I dont know Edinburgh well i am afraid. Looking at the plans you could be right
Using the example given by the OP you would have to pass every carriage to get to his favoured standing point. Hardly realistic if you were dashing for a train
calc7
Established Member
- Joined
- 8 Aug 2011
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Wakefield Westgate has First Class by the entrance/exit to both platforms, as do Darlington and Durham.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Only northbound at Darlington. But i did neglect to think of connecting services - which was silly because you could well have to dive off one service onto the East Coast at almost any station.
Now I look quite stupid - however my point about the OP description stands
Now I look quite stupid - however my point about the OP description stands
AndyLandy
Established Member
Only northbound at Darlington. But i did neglect to think of connecting services - which was silly because you could well have to dive off one service onto the East Coast at almost any station.
Now I look quite stupid - however my point about the OP description stands
I think we're all agreed however that one should not board via a First Class carriage unless there is a very good reason for it. There are some edge cases when it's understandable, but one should always walk along the train to Standard wherever possible (unless of course, one is travelling First)
DarloRich
Veteran Member
seconded.
How could I forget my own station
It is annoying in 'pleb' class at Darlington when you get off having to traipse so far to get to the gateline only to walk the same distance back in the direction you've just come from to get out of the station.
GNER 91128
Member
How could I forget my own station
Enjoy the exercise, it's good for you!
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