First Capital Connect Passenger "Mutiny"

[Evvy73]

Hi, this was sent to me by a colleague who travels on the Thameslink line: http://www.stalbanspeople.co.uk/new...er-Mutiny/article-1870012-detail/article.html

The article is only from a 'local community' type of web site rather than a National Newspaper so should probably be taken with a pinch of salt - I was just wondering if anyone else had heard about it, and if so, was it as 'heavy' as it sounds?

I find it hard to believe that any Train Company would re-instate a service just because of a bunch or angry commuters?!
It reminds me a bit of that 'The Day Today' sketch where angry commuters took over a train because a pigeon had got stuck in a (semaphore) signal which stopped them from getting home.

 

[Daniel]

It was more likely the train was being cancelled to enable the controller to reform the service. Customers refusing to get off the train meant it couldn't reverse via a shunt signal, so couldn't go anywhere. After the 30 mins or so of those passengers being on the platform, the failed train was most likely being moved into a siding, enabling the train to be put back into service - as there was no point in turning the train.

 

[SWT Driver]

"People power" sounds more like a load of horlix to me!

 

[Crossforth]

What ever happend to the police turning up?

 

[SWT Driver]

They will get there nest Tuesday, they are dealing with a bloke picking his nose while driver!

 

[Crossforth]

Was he by anychance parked in a car park with the hand brake on and engine off?

 

[SWT Driver]

I could not possibly comment further

 

[royaloak]

Its not stopped you before?

 

[SWT Driver]

Cheeky git!

 

[royaloak]

Kettle and pot spring to mind

 

[Mojo]

They will get there nest Tuesday, they are dealing with a bloke picking his nose while driver!

Actually he was blowing his nose

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8539682.stm

 

[Geezertronic]

Actually he was blowing his nose

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8539682.stm

As long as it was only his nose he was blowing

 

[philjo]

Can't remember where I heard about this but I was under the impression that there was a bloackage ahead so it was planned to terminate the service to send it back northbound. After the delay in trying to get the passengers off the train, the line ahead had cleared so the train was able continue on its normal route.

 

[asylumxl]

In all fairness, as a regular to FCC services, they have a tendency to changing services or cancelling them suddenly, without any consultation to the passengers.

And I'm sure this seems silly to some of you, but to the passengers, this was the difference between getting to work and not getting to work. I think they have every right to be disgruntled.

 

[thefab444]

In all fairness, as a regular to FCC services, they have a tendency to changing services or cancelling them suddenly, without any consultation to the passengers.

Consulting passengers is a bit pointless, what person is going to say "Oh yes, please cancel my train so other people aren't inconvenienced!"?

 

[90019]

Cheeky git!

Come along children, play nicely now.

 

[royaloak]

Well he started it!

Now where did that teddy land!

 

[asylumxl]

Consulting passengers is a bit pointless, what person is going to say "Oh yes, please cancel my train so other people aren't inconvenienced!"?

Excuse me?

I'm talking about things like, a Brighton trainturning into an all stations stopper just outside Radlett, giving passengers no option but to continue their journey on the same train.

Atleast coming Northbound, they usually declare it at St Pancras, which gives you the option to wait for another train.

 

[Daniel]

Can't remember where I heard about this but I was under the impression that there was a bloackage ahead so it was planned to terminate the service to send it back northbound. After the delay in trying to get the passengers off the train, the line ahead had cleared so the train was able continue on its normal route.

You perhaps heard it earlier in this thread?

It was more likely the train was being cancelled to enable the controller to reform the service. Customers refusing to get off the train meant it couldn't reverse via a shunt signal, so couldn't go anywhere. After the 30 mins or so of those passengers being on the platform, the failed train was most likely being moved into a siding, enabling the train to be put back into service - as there was no point in turning the train.

---

Excuse me?

I'm talking about things like, a Brighton trainturning into an all stations stopper just outside Radlett, giving passengers no option but to continue their journey on the same train.

Atleast coming Northbound, they usually declare it at St Pancras, which gives you the option to wait for another train.

I can understand peoples frustrations at short notice reformations on Thameslink.. but there is a relatively high frequency of trains in the central section, for an NR line anyway. When something goes wrong in the city you have to reform straight away. The FCCTL controllers do a bang up job - but whatever they do, people will complain. It's the nature of the job.

 

[Minstral25]

I am sure the FCCTL controllers do a lot of good work - although they do seem a bit North of London orientated in their fixes.

There problem is clear communication and with the level of some platform staff it is embarrassing and no surprise that passengers get fed up.

For example last night turned up at St Pancras at 17:38, train in platform, went to well marked out FCC station staff member - is that the train for Redhill? answer Never heard of Redhill, we don't go there. Oh, so where's that train going, Dunno!

Gave up and checked boards. It was an Ashford train which doesn't and the 17:40 Redhill train was right behind. Should have known really - brand spanking new 8 coach to Ashford and very tired refurbished 4 coach 319 to Three Bridges. Mind you for a rush hour train it didn't need more than 4 coaches.

 

[thefab444]

I'm talking about things like, a Brighton trainturning into an all stations stopper just outside Radlett, giving passengers no option but to continue their journey on the same train.

Consulting passengers would still be pointless. Pax are, by nature, selfish to their own requirements, and don't have the knowledge nor selflessness to take into account the needs of other pax, and also the TOC. This is what the chaps in Control are supposed to do.

This whole thread is an example of the typical behaviour of pax, causing massive delays and inconvenience just because they don't want to wait for the next train. How many other pax were inconvenienced because the train couldn't be cancelled where Control wanted?

 

[asylumxl]

In my scenario, I don't understand how telling passengers at St Albans would be pointless. They can choose to stay on or get off and wait for the next semi-fast service.

It may be HF through the core, but stations north of Luton aren't quite as regular.

I realise this "mutiny" was idiotic. I was just stating there is resentment in FCC TL customer base. Especially after the drivers pay fiasco.

 

[thefab444]

Ah right, telling the passengers is indeed a good idea. "Consulting" (asking for feedback, input of ideas etc.) them isn't though.

I personally suggest the "mutiny" passengers should collectively pay all of First Capital Connect's delay fines for that day.

 

[jon0844]

What if someone gets off the fast service made slow, to wait for the next semi-fast or fast service and that has been delayed or cancelled?

It's always a consideration I have, after trying to 'be clever' and thinking outside of the box - then getting caught out. If the train I was on is delayed, maybe they all are. I now check carefully that other trains are running, and occasionally this pays off - getting off to board another service that overtakes the one I was on.

To be honest, overall, it's easier to just stay where you are if you can. No need to stand up, try and find a seat again, move your stuff, get rained on or have to suddenly change platform etc. How much later will you be compared to trying to second guess what is going on elsewhere?

If you travel in London on buses, they regularly terminate buses short to turn them around early and restore a regulated service after a bunch up after delays. The driver doesn't know until he's told last minute and then you're dumped on the street. If there were 3-4 buses bunched up and they overtake, you're stuck there for a 20-30 minute wait for the next one. With that gap in service, a full bus won't fit on another full bus behind.

I think it works pretty well on the trains most of the time. When I've been chucked off a train that might have broken down, or FCC might have wanted to turn it around, they've arranged a stop order on another passing service and we've been on our way in a few minutes. Sadly, I don't think they do this sort of thing often enough but it does happen.

 

[Daniel]

It may be HF through the core, but stations north of Luton aren't quite as regular.

However the core is the core for a reason - a majority of trains go through it - so trains north of Luton are affcted by a problem with it. If i've got a train going southbound, and *alot* of trains queueing up behind it due to a problem in the throat, then I might decide to terminate one train short and reform it into a northbound, to fill the gaps and ensure a regular service when the trains resume southbound.

However, if that train then sits there for 30 mins, I haven't really been able to reform anything, have I..

Another example of this is, if you get a train in every platform, and a train stuck in section between two stations, in the peak, full and standing, I need the train in the platform in front to de-train immediately and move forward to clear the platform. If the passengers on that train only think of themselves and refuse to get off, the passengers on the train behind are stuck in a metal container, with very little space, not moving, with nowhere to go - then it we focus on the underground, your also in a tunnel.

Passengers only think of themselves. Which is understandable, but is not right.

If a person is ill on a train, it is a priority to attempt to get that person off of the train, (unless it would make things worse, or impair medical assistance), as if you have trains sitting down everywhere you'll get more persons ill on trains on those stuck in the tunnels behind.

 

[Oswyntail]

...Passengers only think of themselves. Which is understandable, but is not right.....

Sadly, all too frequently, railway operatives give the impression of only thinking of the company (or themselves) and this is worse. If this sort of thing happens, as is inevitable, then a priority should be given to a) informing the passengers exactly what is going on, b) arranging for definite alternatives to be in place and explained to the passengers (not "get off the train and listen to announcements") and c) listening to individual passengers who have special requirements (e.g. arranging to pass on a message from a student who would otherwise miss a university interview). Now of course I realise that staff will have other things to be doing. But a message that says, in essence, "Get off this train and hope something else turns up" is not going to help anyone.

 

[thefab444]

(e.g. arranging to pass on a message from a student who would otherwise miss a university interview).

How many students do not have mobile phones in this country? I think you could probably count the number on your fingers!

The most important thing is that pax get off the train as quickly as possible, then they can be sorted out by the station staff who should be trained in assisting passengers in their onward journey. This should be done by keeping them informed (if information is known, a lot of the time pax moan about a lack of information from station staff, but this is because station staff are none-the-wiser themselves!), and participating in the arrangement of replacement transport if this is required (buses or taxis). Whether this includes telephoning universities about students missing their interview, or ringing up Aunty Doris in Margate to say Mabel is going to be late, is another matter!

 

[jon0844]

If there's no phone coverage, it's a problem - but otherwise a quick call or SMS usually buys some time.

If you're going to an interview or to catch a plane etc, take my advice - set off with the assumption that things will go wrong and prepare to find yourself sitting in a Starbucks killing time when everything goes to plan!

 

[Aictos]

I am sure the FCCTL controllers do a lot of good work - although they do seem a bit North of London orientated in their fixes.

There problem is clear communication and with the level of some platform staff it is embarrassing and no surprise that passengers get fed up.

For example last night turned up at St Pancras at 17:38, train in platform, went to well marked out FCC station staff member - is that the train for Redhill? answer Never heard of Redhill, we don't go there. Oh, so where's that train going, Dunno!

Gave up and checked boards. It was an Ashford train which doesn't and the 17:40 Redhill train was right behind. Should have known really - brand spanking new 8 coach to Ashford and very tired refurbished 4 coach 319 to Three Bridges. Mind you for a rush hour train it didn't need more than 4 coaches.

I'm not surprised you had trouble at St Pancras, the staff there are famous thoughout that part of the route for all the wrong reasons! That's from both a staff and passenger view, now it might be harsh but sadly true.

As to that member of staff, if they didn't know which by the way they should know what routes their station serves, then why didn't they ask their supervisor?

 

[asylumxl]

The most important thing is that pax get off the train as quickly as possible, then they can be sorted out by the station staff who should be trained in assisting passengers in their onward journey.

*Looks around Cricklewood for staff*

Unfortunately, alot of these stations are unmanned...