Finsbury Park disused platform

[Bletchleyite]

One of the lines at Finsbury Park has a platform on both sides, with one side disused, 5 I believe. However, unusually, this is not fenced and has a platform number as well as a set of PIS screens!

Why is this?

 

[Warwick]

A platform either side of a train! Have you no idea just how dangerous and life-threatening such a platform is? Allowing people to board and disembark from each side will lead to madness. It was done like this there for a hundred years until people realised the folly and danger of such things. Carry on like this and the next thing you know people will be wanting to pass between coaches on a moving train.

 

[Esker-pades]

I understand why they decide not to open doors on both sides at stations such as Norwood Junction because one side has the 3rd rail. But, the 3rd rail isn't a thing at Finsbury Park. So, why the policy of one side only?

 

[pdeaves]

So, why the policy of one side only?

Ordinarily, the 'door operator' (wherever they are) has to check doors are closed and no one does something stupid as the train departs. They can't check both sides at the same time.

 

[Warwick]

Ordinarily, the 'door operator' (wherever they are) has to check doors are closed and no one does something stupid as the train departs. They can't check both sides at the same time.

Yet it was done for over 100 years - with slam door stock! Power operated sliding doors make it easier and safer.

 

[Aictos]

Yet it was done for over 100 years - with slam door stock! Power operated sliding doors make it easier and safer.

Not really, you still need to have a clear view of the entire length of the train which applies to both slam door and power operated doors for the simple reason that too many accidents have occurred where people have been caught in the doors and dragged, some even seriously injured as a result.

So no, power operated doors don't make it easier and safer and to prove my point, the report by the RIAB explains in great detail about the train door incident that happened a few years ago at Huntingdon and at Kings Cross which explain why power operated doors are not necessarily easier and safer!

https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/huntingdon-train-door-incident

https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/per...pulled-along-platform-at-king-s-cross-station

 

[Crossover]

I understand why they decide not to open doors on both sides at stations such as Norwood Junction because one side has the 3rd rail. But, the 3rd rail isn't a thing at Finsbury Park. So, why the policy of one side only?

I can't speak for the specifics of the situation and stock, but I believe with Desiros that a door close demand on either side of the train by the guards initiates it for both sides of the train and the guard can't be in two places at once. Not sure if the stock used on the ECML has a similar issue (be it most is DOO)

 

[jon0844]

One of the lines at Finsbury Park has a platform on both sides, with one side disused, 5 I believe. However, unusually, this is not fenced and has a platform number as well as a set of PIS screens!

Why is this?

It causes a few issues at times where someone alights from another train and tries to board a service where the doors are released on the opposite side.

While a slim risk, there is perhaps a risk that someone is trying to open the doors on the side that isn't being observed for dispatch. Perhaps it has been risk assessed, but I've been on a train and seen people trying to get on - being told by people on the train to come to the other side.

If and when they realise, they then sprint - which in itself brings with it some risk.

The railway can argue that the train isn't advertised on any screens on the 'wrong' platform, but it could be worth putting up some sort of fencing or signs to make it clear you cannot board (or alight). Many people each day also incorrectly attempt to open doors on the wrong side (and why wouldn't they if they looked out to see a platform and didn't realise there was a platform both sides?).

 

[theageofthetra]

Works fine at a station I used in Japan. Doors open one side- everyone gets off. Doors open other side everyone gets on. All in a nice orderly queue, no pushing etc.

 

[reytomas1228]

What will happen once lifts are added to platforms 5-6 and this becomes the only step-free way to access services on platform 7? Will both sides open?

 

[pdeaves]

Works fine at a station I used in Japan. Doors open one side- everyone gets off. Doors open other side everyone gets on. All in a nice orderly queue, no pushing etc.

I honestly think the great British public cannot (or rather, will not) behave in such a disciplined manner.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Works fine at a station I used in Japan. Doors open one side- everyone gets off. Doors open other side everyone gets on. All in a nice orderly queue, no pushing etc.

Works at Muenchen Hbf on the S-Bahn, too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The railway can argue that the train isn't advertised on any screens on the 'wrong' platform, but it could be worth putting up some sort of fencing or signs to make it clear you cannot board (or alight). Many people each day also incorrectly attempt to open doors on the wrong side (and why wouldn't they if they looked out to see a platform and didn't realise there was a platform both sides?).

I noticed it precisely because I attempted to open on the wrong side (without success, obviously).

The thing that I found remarkable was as I said that it wasn't fenced and more remarkable that it was marked as Platform 5 (I think) with signage and at least two modern PIS screens. I wonder if the latter just happened as a result of a contract to "fit screens to all non-fenced-off platform faces" or somesuch. What I think we can be sure of is that they won't ever show a train departure! Or is that side used on rare occasions e.g. to segregate football crowds?

 

[DelW]

Guildford platform 7 is the same - it abuts the same track as platform 6, and as the third rail is on the p7 side, that's the one that isn't used. The PIS displays on p7 are the same as on other platforms, but permanently stating that the platform is not in use and that train doors will not be opened on that side. There's no fencing to the edge of p7.

Presumably in the days of slam door stock, pax could in practice use either side of the train, but I can't remember what the platform displays said at that time. I suspect the Ascot services may have been the last slammers to use that track somewhere around 2004, as I think the WR DMUs on the Redhill line had been replaced by Turbos rather earlier.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Works at Muenchen Hbf on the S-Bahn, too.

And on the DLR at Canary Wharf, unless that's changed- it's a long time since I've been there. Nevertheless, for a long time it was done there.

 

[tsr]

I honestly think the great British public cannot (or rather, will not) behave in such a disciplined manner.

And on the DLR at Canary Wharf, unless that's changed- it's a long time since I've been there. Nevertheless, for a long time it was done there.

Canary Wharf is not the only location. People cope perfectly well with this arrangement on the Tube at Morden and Stratford as well. It is entirely civilised (well, by the standards of London commuting!).

 

[bramling]

I noticed it precisely because I attempted to open on the wrong side (without success, obviously).

The thing that I found remarkable was as I said that it wasn't fenced and more remarkable that it was marked as Platform 5 (I think) with signage and at least two modern PIS screens. I wonder if the latter just happened as a result of a contract to "fit screens to all non-fenced-off platform faces" or somesuch. What I think we can be sure of is that they won't ever show a train departure! Or is that side used on rare occasions e.g. to segregate football crowds?

In over 30 years I have never known platform 6 be used for passengers. I wonder what used to happen in class 312 days?

On the up side, what is now platform 3 did of course used to be the main up slow platform - it was only shunned when the new island was built. For a while drivers made announcements advising people that the doors would now open on the left not the right. It still catches people out occasionally.

 

[transmanche]

I honestly think the great British public cannot (or rather, will not) behave in such a disciplined manner.

Passengers queueing at Canary Wharf tube station during the rush hour.

Source: citytransport.info

 

[jon0844]

Passengers queueing at Canary Wharf tube station during the rush hour.

Source: citytransport.info

When was that staged?!
#FakeQueues

 

[transmanche]

When was that staged?!
#FakeQueues

I've seen it myself. I must admit I was surprised at the time as I'd never seen anything like it in Britain before.

But it's not fake. If you don't believe me, go and check it out one afternoon yourself.

 

[jon0844]

I've seen it myself. I must admit I was surprised at the time as I'd never seen anything like it in Britain before.

But it's not fake. If you don't believe me, go and check it out one afternoon yourself.

I do actually believe you!

 

[bramling]

I've seen it myself. I must admit I was surprised at the time as I'd never seen anything like it in Britain before.

But it's not fake. If you don't believe me, go and check it out one afternoon yourself.

Definitely not fake - happens every evening peak. Waterloo W&C can be bit similar too.

There’s a few stations on the GN where queues form at the expected door positions - although not sure if it still happens since the timetable shambles. Hitchin and Stevenage are two which spring to mind. Hitchin in particular is quite well known for people turning up 20+ minutes early to get their desired spot on the platform. In the return direction it’s also common for people to make their way to the doors ridiculously early in order to be first off (and presumably first out of the station / first out of the car park). I’m resisting the temptation to write a little more about self-importance.

 

[Hadders]

Definitely not fake - happens every evening peak. Waterloo W&C can be bit similar too.

There’s a few stations on the GN where queues form at the expected door positions - although not sure if it still happens since the timetable shambles. Hitchin and Stevenage are two which spring to mind. Hitchin in particular is quite well known for people turning up 20+ minutes early to get their desired spot on the platform. In the return direction it’s also common for people to make their way to the doors ridiculously early in order to be first off (and presumably first out of the station / first out of the car park). I’m resisting the temptation to write a little more about self-importance.

We commuters know exactly how to behave (even those from Stevenage!). Orderly queues and tranquil trains (it's like travelling in a library where even making a phone call is frowned upon!) It all goes wrong around 09:30 on weekends and all day at weekends when the tourists start travelling...

 

[kieron]

Ordinarily, the 'door operator' (wherever they are) has to check doors are closed and no one does something stupid as the train departs. They can't check both sides at the same time.

They can if they have enough monitors.

Oh, I think the "disused" platform is actually platform 6. According to realtimetrains, 1 train used platform 6 today (the 9:04 to Cambridge North), and 5 used platform 5 (all northbound). This compares with 92 trains for platform 7. While a single person can't see both sides of a train at once, whether or not the doors are open, it helps a lot if the island on one side of the train is deserted.

Really, though, the best thing to do to allow both sides of the train to be used would be to make platform 6 exit-only for some trains, and block off the stairs until the train arrives to encourage compliance. Then all you need to do is work out how much time using both sides would actually save

 

[jon0844]

They can if they have enough monitors.

Oh, I think the "disused" platform is actually platform 6. According to realtimetrains, 1 train used platform 6 today (the 9:04 to Cambridge North), and 5 used platform 5 (all northbound). This compares with 92 trains for platform 7. While a single person can't see both sides of a train at once, whether or not the doors are open, it helps a lot if the island on one side of the train is deserted.

Really, though, the best thing to do to allow both sides of the train to be used would be to make platform 6 exit-only for some trains, and block off the stairs until the train arrives to encourage compliance. Then all you need to do is work out how much time using both sides would actually save

Block off the stairs how? a barrier someone would open, or staff who would waste their time and still have people push past.

Trust me, if people discovered they could 'jump the queue' they would. And when stopped, they'd be first to go on Twitter. Or live stream it.

 

[Fred26]

Best thing to do is fence of platforms 3 and 6 at Finsbury Park and renumber the others. I've never understood the point of having numbered faces that aren't used.

 

[Aictos]

Best thing to do is fence of platforms 3 and 6 at Finsbury Park and renumber the others. I've never understood the point of having numbered faces that aren't used.

As they did at Alexandra Palace a few years ago when the old platform 1 became the new Platform 2.

 

[Kite159]

Best thing to do is fence of platforms 3 and 6 at Finsbury Park and renumber the others. I've never understood the point of having numbered faces that aren't used.

Isn't part of platform 6 fenced off these days? (With doors being released on the platform 7 side)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't part of platform 6 fenced off these days? (With doors being released on the platform 7 side)

No, it retains its number and newish LED PIS screens, hence my original question as to why.

 

[Fred26]

Isn't part of platform 6 fenced off these days? (With doors being released on the platform 7 side)

It was temporarily fenced off due to the lift works, but I believe that's gone now.