Fighting Exceessive Car Park charges ....

[Blamethrower]

For most people, driving to the station and parking there saves the hassle of waiting for buses at the beginning and end of the days (as they are not normally timed with the trains)

My wife has just started taking the car to the station instead of the bus and she saves half an hour every day. That is not to be sniffed at. However.....

I think why the OP has an issue with this is that car park charges have gone up way beyond inflation in the last 10 years as TOCs who run the stations seek more ways to make money other than fare. A major expenditure for commuting is now car parking, which in many cases is actually more expensive than the train tickets.

Take Milton Keynes as a case in point.

Central has parking which is about £9.50 (last time I went)
Bletchley has parking at about £3.60 (last time I went)

Yes central has more connections but seriously, how can virgin justify charging nearly 300% more than a LM station in what is essentially the same city?

Take Bedford.

North side of the station is about £8.60
The other side (council owned) is about £7.40

Why?

I believe that they are just setting that price because they think they can fleece the people who apparently can afford to pay more and I also feel that it is unlawful to charge different prices throughout the network. Car parking shouldn't be surreptitiously means tested.

They don't set charges to dissuade people from using their services. If you believe that then you are a mug, they say that to simply pass extra costs onto the consumers whilst their salaries remain the same.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reason Bletchley is cheap (it's that way round) is that it's never full or even nearly so. It is to encourage people to go there instead despite the inferior train service. It is effectively yield managed.

All 3 MK main stations are London Midland - Virgin have nothing to do with it.
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I also feel that it is unlawful to charge different prices throughout the network.

No, it isn't. Car parking is unregulated; they can charge what they like.

 

[radamfi]

Central has parking which is about £9.50 (last time I went)
Bletchley has parking at about £3.60 (last time I went)

Yes central has more connections but seriously, how can virgin justify charging nearly 300% more than a LM station in what is essentially the same city?

£9.50 is 163.9% more than £3.60.

In other countries as well it is normal to be parking to be cheap or free at minor stations as well and no or very expensive parking at more important stations. That makes a lot more sense as the major stations are the places you want to be getting trains *to*, rather than *from*.

 

[jopsuk]

I believe that they are just setting that price because they think they can fleece the people who apparently can afford to pay more and I also feel that it is unlawful to charge different prices throughout the network. Car parking shouldn't be surreptitiously means tested.

Car parking fees are set at what the market, locally, can bear. A completely full car park is actually a failure state- ideally the occupation rate should be something like 90% average, so that anyone turning up at any given time can easily find a space.

There's nothing "unlawful" about charging different rates across the network- you feel it's "unfair" (though it really isn't) but I am absolutely, 100%, certain there's no law against it.

I know house prices come into it, but how much commuting costs, including car parking, is partly a lifestyle cost. If you choose to live out in the countryside and commute to London, then the cost of doing that really has to be factored into the savings your making on your home (or the ability to have a bigger home in a nicer place). The train companies have absolutely no moral obligation to do anything other than charge whatever they work out the local market rate is. That's capitalism!

 

[Bletchleyite]

In fact they probably have a legal obligation to their shareholders to charge the going rate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jopsuk]

To a certain extent- if a station/line has spare capacity and low car park occupancy charging less for the car parks could help drive fare revenue. But clearly with expensive car parks that's not the case.

 

[Llanigraham]

I believe that they are just setting that price because they think they can fleece the people who apparently can afford to pay more and(1) I also feel that it is unlawful to charge different prices throughout the network. Car parking shouldn't be surreptitiously means tested.

(2)They don't set charges to dissuade people from using their services. If you believe that then you are a mug, they say that to simply pass extra costs onto the consumers whilst their salaries remain the same.

1/ I'd love to know what law you think they have broken?
And to follow, why do you consider it reasonable that I should pay the same car parking charges in Mid Wales as those charged in (say) Central London? If you haven't realised there is regional pricing in many things. In fact there can be different prices charged in retail outlets across the same urban area.

2/ I suggest you do not make such rude accusations!

 

[Kettledrum]

Sorry to be hard-nosed about this, but the railway isn't a social service and it certainly shouldn't be subsidising low-cost parking for those that choose to drive to the station at the expense of those that make more sustainable choices.

I disagree.

There are huge benefits to society and to the economy of having a strong rail network that is easy to access. That's why we and so may other countries do subsidise the rail network. Encouraging people to travel by rail, instead of by car has environmental benefits too.

In this respect, it is a social service.

Exorbitant car park charges and the lack of sufficient car parking is bad. Bad for passengers, bad for the mobility of the work force and bad for the environment.

Subsidising low cost parking just doesn't happen. A subsidy suggests the TOC is making a loss on the parking - which they are definitely not. A lot of people would not begrudge paying a fair price, but some prices I have seen are not fair. In some cases it's the train company abusing a monopoly of car parking; in some cases, it's the train company being a bad neighbour encouraging anti social behaviour such as parking on residential roads; in some cases it's the train company making a bad business decision, and losing business by making the train option too expensive compared with using the car.

 

[Bald Rick]

Subsidising low cost parking just doesn't happen. A subsidy suggests the TOC is making a loss on the parking - which they are definitely not.

It certainly does happen. Any parking that is free is subsidised - the car park still needs to be maintained, inspected, repaired, indeed built in the first place. A station I happen to know very well has a small number of free spaces, and it costs the TOC to provide it. Hence a subsidy. It is also full by 0730 each morning.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Another downside to expensive station parking is that people park in nearby residential roads to avoid the fee.

My home road is almost empty of cars at week-ends and bank holidays. But on working days there are parked cars almost nose to tail all along it. The most annoying thing about this is that they are often BMW's, sports cars etc that have been driven in from the expensive outlying villages. Yet the owners are avoiding paying for a season ticket for parking. The parking is often inconsiderate making access to driveways difficult, the instruction in the high way code not to park at junctions is ignored, and once the half way sensible spaces are all filled they start parking half on the road and half on the pavement.

The chaos is made worse by having a school in the next road, so twice a day we have fat arsed Mums delivering and collecting their chubby children, how some of those Mums passed their driving tests I will never know, I can only assume that the Driving Test Examiners could not face seeing them again.

Pressurise the council into making the area residents permit only. They will make a killing putting tickets on these vehicles. They'll soon learn to park in the station then.

 

[Barn]

It certainly does happen. Any parking that is free is subsidised - the car park still needs to be maintained, inspected, repaired, indeed built in the first place. A station I happen to know very well has a small number of free spaces, and it costs the TOC to provide it. Hence a subsidy. It is also full by 0730 each morning.

Do you know why this is, out of interest?

• franchise commitment to keep the parking free?
• franchise commitment to have the parking spaces and cost of running a paid service greater than revenue?
• calculation that providing free spaces drives up ticket sales by more than the net revenue that would be gained from operating paid parking?
• plans to charge at some point but low priority and they haven't got round to it yet?
• sheer kindness on the part of the TOC?

 

[charley_17/7]

With regards to the Milton Keynes Central parking arrangements, the prices got jacked up pre-recession, and LM haven't budge/cut since.

Meanwhile, you can pay Milton Keynes Council (as a resident) as little as £2.40 per day, or Network Rail/APOCA 50p an hour to park in Block A1.

The south side MSCP still remains unbuilt, despite massive justification for it.

 

[jopsuk]

In general, extensive free and low cost parking encourages people who could use other transport- transport that's more sustainable and takes up less road space (= less congestion) to drive.

(And the chap who started this still hasn't visited logged in. We've had a drive-by trolling)

 

[DarloRich]

In general, extensive free and low cost parking encourages people who could use other transport- transport that's more sustainable and takes up less road space (= less congestion) to drive.

(And the chap who started this still hasn't visited logged in. We've had a drive-by trolling)

I think he didn't get the response he was after.......

 

[edwin_m]

I think he didn't get the response he was after.......

Probably chained to a barrier somewhere, waving a placard about how "exceesive" it is...

 

[jon0844]

Pressurise the council into making the area residents permit only. They will make a killing putting tickets on these vehicles. They'll soon learn to park in the station then.

Precisely. Otherwise it's hard to see what the problem is, bar those who park illegally.

Locally, for as long as I've lived in Hatfield, there are people who complain about university students parking on 'their' roads in the day, and the council has offered to build a controlled parking zone and enforce twice daily.

Residents keep refusing however, on the basis that they don't believe they should have to pay for the permits, and suggest the university should pay for them.... and the problem continues.

There was actually a meeting last night to discuss parking issues and yet again nothing came from it, as residents basically don't want to have permits but also want non-residents banned from parking...

 

[DarloRich]

My street is permitted and the permits are free for residents. I have one for visitors as I don't have a car of my own.

 

[jon0844]

My street is permitted and the permits are free for residents. I have one for visitors as I don't have a car of my own.

Interesting. Most places I know that have had permits charge a fee of at least £20 a year, but that might include a few visitor scratchcards.

Is it a council issued permit, or a private/unadopted road? I'm surprised a council could give free permits as here the idea is that the permits help fund increased enforcement (not that I know if they really do increase patrols!).

 

[DarloRich]

Interesting. Most places I know that have had permits charge a fee of at least £20 a year, but that might include a few visitor scratchcards.

Is it a council issued permit, or a private/unadopted road? I'm surprised a council could give free permits as here the idea is that the permits help fund increased enforcement (not that I know if they really do increase patrols!).

Council issued. Perhaps it is because it is a visitor permit it is free.

 

[The Quincunx]

There is helpful guidance on the ORR's website for complaints about station car parking charges http://orr.gov.uk/info-for-passengers/station-car-park-charges

 

[trainmania100]

Portslade railway station has a car park,
I was only there 5 minutes to see 34067 and had to pay an all day charge of 4 pounds something... extortion at its finest

 

[snail]

I'm surprised a council could give free permits as here the idea is that the permits help fund increased enforcement (not that I know if they really do increase patrols!).

They introduced residents parking around Lancaster station a couple of years ago. I think it's £40 a year which is supposed to pay for admin costs and patrolling. When I go that way the streets are much quieter than they used to be, I know people that had cars parking outside their house for days while the owners went off to London, or Manchester Airport.

 

[jon0844]

There are permits for roads near our station now and residents are very happy for the same reasons. Yet there are some very vocal people elsewhere that see it as an outrage to be asked to pay a penny for themselves, or visitors.

 

[Kettledrum]

In general, extensive free and low cost parking encourages people who could use other transport- transport that's more sustainable and takes up less road space (= less congestion) to drive.

(And the chap who started this still hasn't visited logged in. We've had a drive-by trolling)

but at the other extreme, in some places really expensive car parking persuades people that they could do their whole journey by car, instead of getting to the station and then using the train for part of the journey.

In some parts of the country, public transport to the local railway station is not a realistic option, so the decision is whether you (1) drive to the station, pay for car parking and take the train for part of the journey or (2) and forget the train entirely and drive all the way.


Like it or not, the cost of car parking at stations is something that influences people's decisions. I would much rather see these people on the train than not on the train at all.

 

[jopsuk]

Portslade railway station has a car park,
I was only there 5 minutes to see 34067 and had to pay an all day charge of 4 pounds something... extortion at its finest

The car park is priced for commuters, not spotters....

 

[Bletchleyite]

but at the other extreme, in some places really expensive car parking persuades people that they could do their whole journey by car, instead of getting to the station and then using the train for part of the journey.



In some parts of the country, public transport to the local railway station is not a realistic option, so the decision is whether you (1) drive to the station, pay for car parking and take the train for part of the journey or (2) and forget the train entirely and drive all the way.





Like it or not, the cost of car parking at stations is something that influences people's decisions. I would much rather see these people on the train than not on the train at all.

The main place you get high car parking charges is stations with a service to London. Driving to London is out of the question for most people. So the effect will be limited.

 

[40129]

IRO it being essential to drive to the station.

I live in a town with three stations. all of which have parking lots. Two of these stations have an almost identical trains service, the third has roughly half the level of service of the other two.

When I first moved to my current house, we had an hourly bus service to one of the main stations and the minor one though this 'service' only ran from 7am to 6pm so not useful for commuting out of town. Thanks to the 'local' bus company, we now have no service to any rail station so the alternative to driving is either a 15 minute walk from the bus station to the trains station, a 15 minute walk to a bus route that serves all 3 stations or a 40 minute walk to one of the main stations, or a taxi @ £4.50 one way.

Thankfully, one of the main stations has free parking. However, this is full by 7am so people end up parking on local roads to avoid paying c.£5.00 per day at the other main station

 

[JMGPannal]

Mobile apps do improve this, though. I quite like RingGo which MK Council uses. I do wish the railway would all use it as well, LM don't, and don't use the app provided by their parking contractor (Indigo) either. Also very good is camera-enforced pay on exit as the Lake District National Park is now using.

Would like to quickly point out that LM do actually use the Indigo App, I've used it many times since they rebranded to Indigo. It's also the same app for TL.

I would say that it's nowhere near as good as RingGo but still pretty usable.

Jon