FGW - W announcement

[Red Dragon]

Here's the initial publicity from First Great Western regarding their re-badging.
It will be interesting to know what their" sardined" pax think about this.
I also wonder what IKB would have thought of it !

More importantly - what do you think of it ?

The statement .......

The journey begins
This is much more than a rebadging exercise. It's a statement and a mission. We have a far-reaching plan for the greatest transformation in the railway in decades – including the largest fleet overhaul since the days of steam and heralding a new age of faster electric trains, equipped with the foremost technology and passenger comforts.

So as you begin to notice the new ticket offices, uniforms and trains in the months ahead, please remember that Great Western Railway is more than just a name. It's a promise, and one we mean to keep.

Kind regards,
Mark Hopwood
Managing Director, GWR

 

[ic250]

Well, it's entirely a PR exercise isn't it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't FGW pay precisely nothing for these new trains? I believe it's all funded by the government. Seems very disingenuous to say that they 'have a far reaching plan for the transformation of the railway'. It's all being funded by the government!

TOCs are entirely pointless and superfluous to the running of today's railway. They merely sequestrate out profits that could be better re-invested in the network and lower fares. Instead, they spend their money on branding themselves to harken back to some previous 'golden age' of rail transport (the 1920s/30s), and pretend that they somehow have a link with this more heroic age when private companies actually risked their capital in the operation.

Call me a cynic, but this is the worst kind of PR exercise.

 

[Red Dragon]

I now live in Yorkshire and only occasionally use FGW, but I'd be very interested to hear the views of the Great Western Railwaymen amongst us and, in particular, the Cymru contingent - Gareth, Merlod, Greenback et al
Diolch yn fawr
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, it's entirely a PR exercise isn't it?

TOCs are entirely pointless and superfluous to the running of today's railway. They merely sequestrate out profits that could be better re-invested in the network and lower fares. Instead, they spend their money on branding themselves to harken back to some previous 'golden age' of rail transport (the 1920s/30s), and pretend that they somehow have a link with this more heroic age when private companies actually risked their capital in the operation.

.

Regarding the finances we also need to remember the shareholders' needs - whether they be private companies, individuals, or even foreign state owned railway organisations !

 

[LowLevel]

I now live in Yorkshire and only occasionally use FGW, but I'd be very interested to hear the views of the Great Western Railwaymen amongst us and, in particular, the Cymru contingent - Gareth, Merlod, Greenback et al
Diolch yn fawr
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Regarding the finances we also need to remember the shareholders needs - whether they be private companies, individuals, or even foreign state owned railway organisations !

Sadly Bob 'Merlod' recently passed away - there's a thread further down the forum about it.

 

[coppercapped]

Well, it's entirely a PR exercise isn't it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't FGW pay precisely nothing for these new trains? I believe it's all funded by the government. Seems very disingenuous to say that they 'have a far reaching plan for the transformation of the railway'. It's all being funded by the government!

Wrong - it's not being funded by the Government at all.

The western franchisee will be paying the lease for the trains to Agility Trains when they enter service. However the DfT has guaranteed the payments - that is, if fGW or its successors cannot afford or make the lease payments then the DfT will ensure that Agility Trains is paid.

There is also no Government money involved at all in the construction and operation of these trains. Hitachi together with Agility Trains has raised all the money required to design, develop, test and build the trains as well as the capital needed for the construction of the maintenance depots from the financial markets and will first receive a payment when the first train enters revenue service. The DfT signed a so-called Train Service Provision contract with Agility Trains - it has not purchased, and will not be purchasing, the trains.

In other words Hitachi/Agility Trains are funding some 6 years of expenditure before they start getting paid - that doesn't come cheap and explains, at least partially, why the lease payments are so high.

 

[yorksrob]

I saw the film. It's good that they're encouraging a sense of pride in the railway and its history. Maybe when the new trains are all here, they'll keep an InterCity 125 for special occasions.

 

[Red Dragon]

Sadly Bob 'Merlod' recently passed away - there's a thread further down the forum about it.

Oh dear I'm so sorry - I missed the thread.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wrong - it's not being funded by the Government at all.

The western franchisee will be paying the lease for the trains to Agility Trains when they enter service. However the DfT has guaranteed the payments - that is, if fGW or its successors cannot afford or make the lease payments then the DfT will ensure that Agility Trains is paid.

This is exactly what Laing (part of Agility Trains) did thirty years ago with the early PFI project at Ashford International Station.
The payments, linked to passenger numbers, were guaranteed and underwritten by the Government.
Nice work if you can get it !

 

[Ash Bridge]

I saw the film. It's good that they're encouraging a sense of pride in the railway and its history. Maybe when the new trains are all here, they'll keep an InterCity 125 for special occasions.

That's a nice idea! seeing that First actually own several power cars I wonder what the possibilities are?

 

[yorksrob]

That's a nice idea! seeing that First actually own several power cars I wonder what the possibilities are?

BR did it a few times. And I believe that Southern were thinking of keeping a CIG as a depot mascot at one stage (would have been great if they'd gone through with it !).

 

[jimm]

That's a nice idea! seeing that First actually own several power cars I wonder what the possibilities are?

Nil, I should think. They aren't in the business of running a heritage railway and keeping HSTs going is an expensive business and a rather different matter from the odd diesel loco or third-rail emu. With the hefty PFI charges to pay on the 800s and 801s, sentiment will be straight out of the window.

 

[Ash Bridge]

BR did it a few times. And I believe that Southern were thinking of keeping a CIG as a depot mascot at one stage (would have been great if they'd gone through with it !).

Yes, what a shame it wasn't to be, I would have loved to have seen one of the buffet units retained BEP, BIG etc. especially now the VEP is returning, pity they went so early, oops getting carried away here now, going a bit off topic...

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, what a shame it wasn't to be, I would have loved to have seen one of the buffet units retained BEP, BIG etc. especially now the VEP is returning, pity they went so early, oops getting carried away here now, going a bit off topic...

Indeed. Still, looking forward to barrelling up the mainline in the VEP though !

 

[Ash Bridge]

Nil, I should think. They aren't in the business of running a heritage railway and keeping HSTs going is an expensive business and a rather different matter from the odd diesel loco or third-rail emu. With the hefty PFI charges to pay on the 800s and 801s, sentiment will be straight out of the window.

Sadly I imagine you're probably right jimm, it would be nice, but unlikely to happen, then again if the AT300's have the same allergy to seawater as the Voyager then a spare HST could prove useful on occasion.

 

[jimm]

Sadly I imagine you're probably right jimm, it would be nice, but unlikely to happen, then again if the AT300's have the same allergy to seawater as the Voyager then a spare HST could prove useful on occasion.

Do you really think that Hitachi weren't well aware of the problems with the Voyagers when they go for a swim and took that into account in their design?

So no, the 800s, which are meant to cover some Torbay duties, and AT300s won't have the same issue.

 

[Domh245]

Hitachi were well aware of it, mainly because the DfT specifically mentioned it!

TS1983 Full Functionality of the IEP Trains must be maintained during and after exposure to salt
water spray and such exposure must not cause excessive cosmetic degradation of exposed
surfaces, components and equipment.

 

[47271]

Nil, I should think. They aren't in the business of running a heritage railway and keeping HSTs going is an expensive business and a rather different matter from the odd diesel loco or third-rail emu. With the hefty PFI charges to pay on the 800s and 801s, sentiment will be straight out of the window.

Ha, don't worry, Scotrail will be keeping HSTs in preservation for years to come!

Not entirely off topic however: I'm sure that someone will have worked out a colour scheme for when they make the move north, but to be truly iconic again it would be great if they could return to the original Intercity yellow-(okay Scotrail dark)blue-yellow front end and even continuous headlight units - far sleeker and cool than some of the tubby dark efforts with weird little lights that they've been turned into.

This is a mangling from an earlier age, but don't start me on the buffers on Grand Central units!

 

[Parallel]

I'm kind of anticipating the usual FGW catalogue of disasters on GWR launch day. Signalling problems at Slough, short formed Thames Valley services, a member of train crew unavailable at Bristol and train faults at Exeter and Westbury.

Obviously the biggest change will be when stock actually arrives/gets cascaded. Not much will change up until then, other than units getting painted.

Not a massive fan of the GWR idea - GWR was iconic, and still is now. It is a gimmicky PR exercise probably designed to try and get people to forget 'cattle truck conditions' and 'worst late western', however considering no major changes are happening until at least 2016 for local/regional services and 2017 for mainline services - it sounds like they could be setting the GWR name up for a fall (Almost surprised nobody has made a 'Late Western Railway' pun yet!)

Of course, I will reserve my complete judgement until the changes start taking place. I have no doubt that the company are keen to change their public image around, and passengers want better services.

 

[455driver]

Some of the mess room walls have been painted in green, its just a pity they are all different shades of green!

Oh we had nice metal GWR branding put up as well, its just a pity they painted around the notice boards before removing them (leaving 2 grey panels on the freshly white painted wall) to put the metal signs up, they were up a few hours before they realised how dangerous they were, the edges are like razor blades.
The W at Plymouth started to fall off the wall after 2 hours.

So a good quality start to the 'fluffy' franchise!

 

[plymothian]

Prize for the first backromym for GWR to replace Worst Late Western etc.

Oh! Got one:

Going Wrong Repeatedly

 

[infobleep]

Well, it's entirely a PR exercise isn't it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't FGW pay precisely nothing for these new trains? I believe it's all funded by the government. Seems very disingenuous to say that they 'have a far reaching plan for the transformation of the railway'. It's all being funded by the government!

TOCs are entirely pointless and superfluous to the running of today's railway. They merely sequestrate out profits that could be better re-invested in the network and lower fares. Instead, they spend their money on branding themselves to harken back to some previous 'golden age' of rail transport (the 1920s/30s), and pretend that they somehow have a link with this more heroic age when private companies actually risked their capital in the operation.

Call me a cynic, but this is the worst kind of PR exercise.

Back to the golden age when the railways were privately owned!

 

[Red Dragon]

Prize for the first backromym for GWR to replace Worst Late Western etc.

Oh! Got one:

Going Wrong Repeatedly

Nice one !

 

[NX]

Same trains with knackered AC, same staff with zero morale, same problems jaunt a different colour train and uniform (which won't come for another six months).

NX

 

[fgwrich]

Some of the mess room walls have been painted in green, its just a pity they are all different shades of green!

Oh we had nice metal GWR branding put up as well, its just a pity they painted around the notice boards before removing them (leaving 2 grey panels on the freshly white painted wall) to put the metal signs up, they were up a few hours before they realised how dangerous they were, the edges are like razor blades.
The W at Plymouth started to fall off the wall after 2 hours.

So a good quality start to the 'fluffy' franchise!

Prize for the first backromym for GWR to replace Worst Late Western etc.

Oh! Got one:

Going Wrong Repeatedly

Those two posts repeatedly go rather well together.

I'm not a fan of it either, a nameless friend think's it's absolutely wonderful and will bring passengers the feeling and the type of services that they have always wanted, apparently not so possible under First Great Western - That bus company apparently. The problem is, as pointed out that very few of the actual changes wont be taking place for a while, with the same fleet, same staff and same operations staff, oh and the surprise plastering of Operated by First Group & Part of First Group on the new livery as well. Personally I didn't see what was wrong with the far smarter Plain Blue livery as demonstrated by the 'West Fleet' & ironically the turbo fleets (now having to be re-repainted from Blue to Green). Why after winning Train Operator of the Year & building up a smart recognised brand - as featured on Channel 5s program, endless FGW models which sell very well, and running across the West Country does it all have to be abolished for a rather dull scheme such as this? I understand the possible desire to want to disconnect yourself from being connected to a bus company, but leave the Buses to do that as First has proved with Buses of Somerset. It's also nice to know that the same First, in financial troubles last year, have enough to repaint an entire fleet again - shame it's not exactly starting on the unit's that should have been done first!

Of course, I'm still waiting to see the once Mighty GWR name return to the rather less respected, or mighty, Class 143 - Yes, they are now considering putting them in Green as well! So much for luxurious then!

455 Driver - I presume then, that's why they've gone for sticking gWr onto rolling stock with sticky back plastic then instead of the talked about cast metal logos.

 

[CC 72100]

Of course, I'm still waiting to see the once Mighty GWR name return to the rather less respected, or mighty, Class 143 - Yes, they are now considering putting them in Green as well! So much for luxurious then!

143s won't go into green, no chance, considering they'll be gone by the franchise end (well before).

 

[gazthomas]

Same sleepers failing! PS - I like the new branding

 

[30907]

Prize for the first backromym for GWR to replace Worst Late Western etc.

Oh! Got one:

Going Wrong Repeatedly

Great Way Round, surely? - especially during engineering/ electrification works. A bit unfair since c1910 otherwise.

 

[thelongestroad]

The automated announcements (at least at FGW run stations) no longer say "18:30 First Great Western service to XYX", they just say "18:30 service to XYX"...

It's the beginning of the end.. :roll:

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Newsflash.

1O52 - 0434 from Reading reaches Guildford early two days in a row, passengers left behind as a result of these right time departures!

 

[cactustwirly]

I haven't heard that, at Twyford they are still announced as xx First Great Western service to xx

 

[Michael.Y]

Almost surprised nobody has made a 'Late Western Railway' pun yet!

One of the more vocal Twitter watchdogs... or should that be watchcat... is already prepared.

https://twitter.com/gwrkmc