FGW unit queries

[387star]

I was on what appeared to be an ex silverlink 150/1 this afternoon. The flooring was light grey with what appeared to be blue spots. Did silverlink refresh the diesel fleet to the said standard? I also noticed the flip up seats need to be pulled up from the very bottom via a lever much to the puzzlement of passengers.
On my train the guard decided to up-root passengers in this area to make way for a bike. Obviously safety comes first. The door had to be manually kicked open at each stop, however. Not a promising sign! This was coupled with the windows banging open. The seating also seems susceptible to ripping.

Currently I'm on a 158. I notice all seats have tables fitted to the backs of them a new phenomenon. When did fgw fit all original 158 seats with tables and what took them so long. There must be an interesting story here. Some areas of the carpet are sticking up not sure if this is a reoccurring problem on these units.

I also wish to find out what the stop is between Freshford and bath? I definitely saw an old station sign.
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The other question of which I've just remembered is are fgw fitting opaque screening to the 158 internal doors?

 

[Eagle]

I also wish to find out what the stop is between Freshford and bath? I definitely saw an old station sign.

Limpley Stoke. Used to be the junction for the branchline to Camerton.

 

[D6975]

Currently I'm on a 158. I notice all seats have tables fitted to the backs of them a new phenomenon. When did fgw fit all original 158 seats with tables and what took them so long. There must be an interesting story here.

They aren't all done. I travelled on one not that long ago that didin't have the seat back tables.

 

[TEW]

All units definetely have seat back tables now and have done for a while. They weren't refitted at the refurbishment due to supplier problems.
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The ex-Silverlink 150/1s are just generally disgusting. They are basically in the same state Silverlink left them but the seats were reupholstered and internal handrails repainted pink when they were repainted at Cardiff Canton. They've also had LED lighting fitted since. The ex-LM units were given a much better refurbishment at Barton Hill by Chrysalis IIRC.

 

[BestWestern]

The area with tip-up seats is specifically designated as the cycle area; there is nowhere else to put them other than blocking doorways, so the Guard was quite right to move passengers from that area if it was needed for a bike.

The 158 fleet is in general becoming rather tatty, due to heavy use and precious little maintenance. The opaque saloon doors are just a sticky film over the clear glass, whether all sets had and have retained it I'm not entirely sure. There are/were a number of odd 'tweaks' and mods, the most obvious being 769 (I think) which had emergency plungers fitted to the vestibule doors and a rotary switch to open or isolate the disabled toilet door with a carriage key. Neither made it beyond the single experimental fitment, though they remain in place on that solitary unit (now/currently part of a 95X) three car.

I would fully agree that the 150/1s are generally pretty grim!

 

[158747]

158769 now part of 158960

 

[fgwrich]

The 158 fleet is in general becoming rather tatty, due to heavy use and precious little maintenance.

I would fully agree that the 150/1s are generally pretty grim!

Both inside and out i'd say. Especially the yellow fronts of FGWs 158s, Some of those are and have been looking pretty grim for a good few years now. Unit I had on Saturday night obviously had little or no Air Con, carpet was peeling and if im honest, the engine sounded more like a 150 than that of a 158!

 

[387star]

Both inside and out i'd say. Especially the yellow fronts of FGWs 158s, Some of those are and have been looking pretty grim for a good few years now. Unit I had on Saturday night obviously had little or no Air Con, carpet was peeling and if im honest, the engine sounded more like a 150 than that of a 158!

I expect come the new franchise they will have a high density EMT style refurbishment with seats spare from the redundant mk3s. PIS will presumably be fitted as well

Shame salisbury don't look after them. I'm surprised Romsey, Dunbridge and Dean arn't operated by SWT

 

[Eagle]

Well up until abut 2006 SWT didn't call at Dean or Dunbridge at all, and they only called at Romsey as the terminus of the hourly Romsey to Totton via Chandlers Ford service. Whereas Wessex Trains had a regular service at all three. So it used to make sense.

 

[TEW]

Both inside and out i'd say. Especially the yellow fronts of FGWs 158s, Some of those are and have been looking pretty grim for a good few years now. Unit I had on Saturday night obviously had little or no Air Con, carpet was peeling and if im honest, the engine sounded more like a 150 than that of a 158!

To be fair the 158 aircon in general on FGW is pretty decent. It's not as good as the SWT units which all have the Liebherr system fitted, but it is better than other operators who don't have the Liebherr system.

 

[BestWestern]

Both inside and out i'd say. Especially the yellow fronts of FGWs 158s, Some of those are and have been looking pretty grim for a good few years now. Unit I had on Saturday night obviously had little or no Air Con, carpet was peeling and if im honest, the engine sounded more like a 150 than that of a 158!

Yup, the front ends look pretty scabby on most of them! A rather unfortunate new development appears to be a policy of not repairing/replacing the front fairings if they get damaged; one of the current two car sets has them missing at both ends and now sports just the 'snowplough' fitting and then the supporting steelwork above it, although it is at least painted yellow. Doesn't look great though. The set might have previously been part of 953, which has been running around for months now with half a fairing gone at one end.

 

[TEW]

That's 158766. I thought it looked better than before though, maybe that's just because the fairings looked so tatty.

 

[fgwrich]

Yup, the front ends look pretty scabby on most of them! A rather unfortunate new development appears to be a policy of not repairing/replacing the front fairings if they get damaged; one of the current two car sets has them missing at both ends and now sports just the 'snowplough' fitting and then the supporting steelwork above it, although it is at least painted yellow. Doesn't look great though. The set might have previously been part of 953, which has been running around for months now with half a fairing gone at one end.

Saw that one today after another training session down in Hamble - FGWs Fleet policy is rather disappointing really, compared to the likes of either it's High Speed side or SWT. I can understand how heavily used most of the 'West Fleet' is, but what ever happened to at least making some attempt of keeping a semi smart fleet? Local Lines livery - I've always liked, but is becoming shabby / scratched / faded and weathered, the 150s externally are looking bad (let alone the holes starting to appear in some units bodywork!) 153s - For a while, the smartest externally quite probably were the ex LM pair (at least the FGW insides still look good on these!) but the 158s - I'm almost feeling sorry for you and your colleagues having to work those - especially when one pulls up alongside the SWT Examples in Sotton Central or Fratton! FGWs Yellow fronts really have been looking pretty bad since around 2010 - surely someone could at least give them some paint and a new fairing, some tlc! Certainly would be the case if they were HSS! Just send them to Eastleigh or Barton Hill for a day!

 

[BestWestern]

A colleague told me some time back that the fading/peeling nose end paintjobs were a warranty issue with whoever it was who did the refurb (Wabtec? Can't remember!), in particular the black windscreen surrounds which have been slowly shedding their paint revealing white undercoat since quite an early stage. Whether that is true, and whether any rectification work has been carried out if so, I don't know. As for the general fleet policy, it's one of doing what needs doing and deferring everything else until 'next exam', at which point some things get done and others don't.

 

[ValleyLines142]

To be fair the 158 aircon in general on FGW is pretty decent.

It really isn't. I was on 158961 on a Bristol to Cardiff run last week (think it was the 1523 from Portsmouth). I alighted at Newport at 6.26 and waited for the 6.31 HST to Swansea behind it, just for the last stretch to Cardiff, as it was just so unbearably hot. Those mere fifteen minutes on that HST felt like the Orient Express after what I had experienced!

I really think it's time for something new on the Cardiff to Portsmouth runs. Those 158s are looking very tatty and the leg room on them is absolutely disgraceful. I have vowed NEVER to go south of Bristol on one.

I think something like the 175, 180 or 185 would be excellent.

I think they'd be good on the Cardiff to Taunton runs, instead of those hideous 150/1s.

I find it absolutely absurd that a 150/1 is booked for the 0600 Penzance to Cardiff (and a 150/9 on the 1248 Paignton to Cardiff), a journey of six hours, yet a 150/2 which is far, FAR more suitable for the job, ends up on the local Exeter branches and on the Severn Beach Line. Where on earth is the reasoning for that?

 

[TEW]

If you compare the 158 air-con to Northern or ATW 158 air-con you'll see that it is pretty good. 158s have some of the most comfortable seats around. They're pretty much the ideal trains for Portsmouth-Cardiff. I find long journeys on them perfectly fine. I'd much rather a 158 than a 185 with rock-hard seats.

 

[ValleyLines142]

If you compare the 158 air-con to Northern or ATW 158 air-con you'll see that it is pretty good. 158s have some of the most comfortable seats around. They're pretty much the ideal trains for Portsmouth-Cardiff. I find long journeys on them perfectly fine. I'd much rather a 158 than a 185 with rock-hard seats.

I could have just had a one-off failure, but even so it was unbearable.

They are very comfortable seats actually, particularly Coaches A and B, but unfortunately this positive point, for me, is totally overshadowed by the lack of leg room. As a person approaching 6ft 5, it's not ideal!

The only possible thing you could do is book a priority seat, although that's only ideal if you're on an Advance ticket or if you have an Off-Peak Day Return and you know you're going to get a specific train.

Can I also point out that the 185s have been highly praised, particularly for commuters.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I really think it's time for something new on the Cardiff to Portsmouth runs. Those 158s are looking very tatty and the leg room on them is absolutely disgraceful. I have vowed NEVER to go south of Bristol on one.

I think something like the 175, 180 or 185 would be excellent.

A class 180 I could perhaps agree on, but 175s are too short and 185s are too suburban. Personally, I think what the Cardiff - Portsmouth route really needs is 4-car formations of refurbished 158s (refurbished to improve legroom, and reliability if that's currently a problem).

I find it absolutely absurd that a 150/1 is booked for the 0600 Penzance to Cardiff (and a 150/9 on the 1248 Paignton to Cardiff), a journey of six hours, yet a 150/2 which is far, FAR more suitable for the job, ends up on the local Exeter branches and on the Severn Beach Line. Where on earth is the reasoning for that?

150/2 far more suitable than a 150/1? Other than no corridor connections and slam-doors for the staff there's not that much difference between 150/1 and 150/2 is there? ANY class 150 is woefully inappriate for a journey as long as Penzance to Cardiff (hell, ATW's 150/2s, the only 150s I have had much experiance of, aren't really comfortable enough for anything over an hour). There just aren't enough 158s to go arround everywhere that needs them unfortunately.

158s have some of the most comfortable seats around. They're pretty much the ideal trains for Portsmouth-Cardiff. I find long journeys on them perfectly fine. I'd much rather a 158 than a 185 with rock-hard seats.

I agree, 158s are the ideal stock, much better for long distance (semi)fast services than anything with 1/3, 2/3 doors. The legroom on the FirstGW and SWT examples I've used has been a little on the tight side though (but not as bad as an ATW class 150). I once made a long journey from Hampshire to Pembrokeshire. Nice comfortable seats but insuffient legroom on the 158 to Cardiff followed by great legroom but rock-hard seats on the 175. Why can't trains have 175-legroom with nice-soft SWT158 seats?

 

[221129]

The interior on a 150/1 or 150/9 is 3+2 whereas on a 150/2 it's 2+2. (APart from the 2 150/2s that have the 150/1 interior.)

 

[Eagle]

180s on Cardiff to Portsmouth would be a huge waste of 125 mph units on a line that's mainly 80-90.

 

[Rhydgaled]

180s on Cardiff to Portsmouth would be a huge waste of 125 mph units on a line that's mainly 80-90.

But how many 125mph routes can cope with a 5-car train? The fast lines are generally the ones which carry large volumes of passengers and hence justify the investment in high linespeeds. A 180 has a similar capacity to a 4-car 158, you wouldn't want that on a mainline Intercity service would you?

 

[455driver]

I find it absolutely absurd that a 150/1 is booked for the 0600 Penzance to Cardiff (and a 150/9 on the 1248 Paignton to Cardiff), a journey of six hours, yet a 150/2 which is far, FAR more suitable for the job, ends up on the local Exeter branches and on the Severn Beach Line. Where on earth is the reasoning for that?

Just a thought but maybe its to do with the number of seats provided on each service? :roll:

We all know who we can blame for that dont we!

 

[jimm]

180s on Cardiff to Portsmouth would be a huge waste of 125 mph units on a line that's mainly 80-90.

Not this old saw again. 180s, HSTs and 22xs spend huge amounts of their time running at speeds less than 125mph on routes with lower maximum speeds, just as the 158s are not running flat out at 90mph between Cardiff and Portsmouth all the time now.

But how many 125mph routes can cope with a 5-car train? The fast lines are generally the ones which carry large volumes of passengers and hence justify the investment in high linespeeds. A 180 has a similar capacity to a 4-car 158, you wouldn't want that on a mainline Intercity service would you?

Sorry to interrupt with boring facts that don't fit with your prejudices but the 180s do perfectly well on off-peak London-Oxford/Cotswolds services, also on contra-peak services out of London in the morning and the other way in the afternoon.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Sorry to interrupt with boring facts that don't fit with your prejudices but the 180s do perfectly well on off-peak London-Oxford/Cotswolds services, also on contra-peak services out of London in the morning and the other way in the afternoon.

They may be perfectly fine on the Cotswolds, but I imagine they will be full between Reading and PAD even in the mid-day off-peak. Between Reading and PAD, I would suspect a 5-car set would only cope on very early morning (before the peak) and very late evening (after the peak) services, and perhaps some contra-peak runs. But a contra-peak service will often have to be formed of a train which either has just come off a peak-direction working or is going to form a peak-direction next, so you need a longer train on the diagram anyway.

 

[455driver]

180s on Cardiff to Portsmouth would be a huge waste of 125 mph units on a line that's mainly 80-90.

So the HSTs are wasted on routes that are mainly 100/110mph then ie Paddington to Plymouth/Penzance where the only 125mph bit is between Paddington and Reading!

I do agree with pompey to Cardiff though, it isnt a main InterCity route and 158s are suitable but could ideally be longer.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I do agree with pompey to Cardiff though, it isnt a main InterCity route and 158s are suitable but could ideally be longer.

I agree that 158s are suitable but need to be longer and ideally better legroom. Trouble is there aren't a load of spare 158s arround, but there may be a handful of 180s available following IEP introduction on the Cotswolds (a 180 would be equivalent to an extra coach on Cardiff-Portsmouth, and has great legroom if the layout is the same as a 175).

 

[jimm]

They may be perfectly fine on the Cotswolds, but I imagine they will be full between Reading and PAD even in the mid-day off-peak. Between Reading and PAD, I would suspect a 5-car set would only cope on very early morning (before the peak) and very late evening (after the peak) services, and perhaps some contra-peak runs. But a contra-peak service will often have to be formed of a train which either has just come off a peak-direction working or is going to form a peak-direction next, so you need a longer train on the diagram anyway.

Suspect and imagine all you like, some of us actually use these trains.

180s operate the 05.45, 06.48 and 07.21 departures out of Paddington to Oxford (and beyond in the first two cases) - that's three out of the four diagrams, with the other on the 07.21 semi-fast from Oxford which serves the smaller stations west of Reading. Yes they can get busy, no wonder with people going into Reading and Oxford for work, but overloaded, no.

And are you now saying there is something wrong about a train being full? I'd call it good business.

Between Reading and Paddington there are lots of other trains as well, all day, so it's not like the 180s are having to shoulder the burden alone, whatever direction they are going in, is it?

The FGW 180s are carefully diagrammed so that in the mornings they are on jobs that start in London and go all the way to Worcestershire, or work early into London before the highest demand, then back the other way, such as the 07.21 London to Oxford - where an HST would be wasted. In the afternoons, the diagrams also mean they are not on the very busiest services from Oxford to London, with HSTs covering those.

Not every service needs 500 seats - end of story.

 

[Rhydgaled]

And are you now saying there is something wrong about a train being full? I'd call it good business.

Depends on what you mean by full. If you mean 99% of seats taken and nobody having to stand then I'd call it good business too, but you can't get that sort of occupancy across all services because of varying demand. Even Reading - PAD is the best part of half an hour, too long to be asking large numbers of passengers to stand in my opinion (though it is unavoidable on high-peak services).

Not every service needs 500 seats - end of story.

FirstGW haven't got 2+7 IC125 sets anymore though have they, they're all 2+8 now. That suggests a very large proportion of 125mph services do need to be long trains.

 

[jimm]

Depends on what you mean by full. If you mean 99% of seats taken and nobody having to stand then I'd call it good business too, but you can't get that sort of occupancy across all services because of varying demand. Even Reading - PAD is the best part of half an hour, too long to be asking large numbers of passengers to stand in my opinion (though it is unavoidable on high-peak services).

FirstGW haven't got 2+7 IC125 sets anymore though have they, they're all 2+8 now. That suggests a very large proportion of 125mph services do need to be long trains.

Why is it that you are unwilling to take in information?

The 180s are diagrammed to be on services appropriate to their capacity, with the lamentable exception of the 15.51 from London to Worcester, where the HST was removed at the end of the summer to free a set for the overhaul programme.

Of course all the seats are needed on many trains the HSTs work but they also operate with empty seats on contra-peak and off-peak duties. And there are services where the 280-seat capacity of a 180 is more appropriate. Is that so hard for you to grasp? Or are you just blinded by your paranoia about five-car IEPs?

 

[Flamingo]

Depends on what you mean by full. If you mean 99% of seats taken and nobody having to stand then I'd call it good business too, but you can't get that sort of occupancy across all services because of varying demand. Even Reading - PAD is the best part of half an hour, too long to be asking large numbers of passengers to stand in my opinion (though it is unavoidable on high-peak services).

FirstGW haven't got 2+7 IC125 sets anymore though have they, they're all 2+8 now. That suggests a very large proportion of 125mph services do need to be long trains.

Large numbers of people don't have to stand between London and Reading. A number of people chose to stand, some of them because walking down the train to find a seat is too much trouble, some because they won't push past the people standing. However, it's rare I'll see a train that has more than a few dozen people standing for whatever reason.