FGW Franchise Extension

[Flamingo]

I don't work many West-Country trains, more usually the Bristol, South Wales and Cheltenham lines. Daytime trains Mon-Fri, (leaving London between 09.00 &16.00, and arriving in London after 10.30) and Saturday afternoons could be described as quieter. Unless special events or disruption, there would definitely be spare capacity.

 

[LexyBoy]

West Country trains have the highest off-peak loading IME. Off peak services on other routes are quieter (excepting Oxford, but then the off peak services are often Turbos rather than HSTs). Between Bristol and South Wales, the Bristol trains seem busier in the week whilst the Welsh trains are much busier at weekends.

 

[richw]

That basic news was posted about four pages ago, in post #81, as a quick glance back would have shown.

The resignalling stuff hadn't been mentioned yet, but it could be just spin anyway, because last years abandoned ITT already mentioned resignalling being 'accelerated', but only to 2017 or thereabouts...

The DfT's press release is well padded with things that won't happen until the next franchise as is usual with these things...

I posted a link on another forum with a local news story about the signalling upgrade in Cornwall, forgot to post here. On the other forum posters contributed that this was surely network rail anyway and not FGW.

The article did say once complete Cornwall would be getting a half hourly clock face service, on the main line. This would definitely get me on the train daily, as at the moment I have approx. a 90 minute wait for a train when I finish work, so I opt to drive.

 

[TEW]

West Country trains have the highest off-peak loading IME. Off peak services on other routes are quieter (excepting Oxford, but then the off peak services are often Turbos rather than HSTs). Between Bristol and South Wales, the Bristol trains seem busier in the week whilst the Welsh trains are much busier at weekends.

The frequency to South Wales is cut from 2tph to 1tph at weekends whilst Bristol trains aren't, so the Swansea services will be busier at weekends.

 

[IanXC]

Regarding the longer sleeper formations, is there sufficient capacity in the current Night Riviera fleet, or will further vehicles have to be sourced?

 

[ainsworth74]

I was wondering this. I believe they stick extra vehicles on during the summer which are sourced from within the existing fleet. Though I'm not sure whether they have enough to do two extra on each service and do it all the time (it's one thing to do it for a month or two a year and just shuffle maintenance around but all the time?).

 

[richw]

There is an extra seated coach on a Friday night I believe. Are they adding extra sleeping coaches or just seated coaches?

 

[swt_passenger]

I was wondering this. I believe they stick extra vehicles on during the summer which are sourced from within the existing fleet. Though I'm not sure whether they have enough to do two extra on each service and do it all the time (it's one thing to do it for a month or two a year and just shuffle maintenance around but all the time?).

The DfT statement does have it as only a 'seasonal' increase:

"two additional sleeper carriages for services between London and Cornwall, to provide additional seasonal capacity for leisure and business passengers..."

Could just be one for each direction, or else they'd probably be crowing about four extra?

 

[thelongestroad]

This is probably galley gossip (so please take with a massive pinch of salt) but I heard rumours of a rebranding. Dropping "First" from the name. Or something.

 

[ainsworth74]

The DfT statement does have it as only a 'seasonal' increase:

"two additional sleeper carriages for services between London and Cornwall, to provide additional seasonal capacity for leisure and business passengers..."

Could just be one for each direction, or else they'd probably be crowing about four extra?

Ahh devil the detail it seems. So probably the DfT have announced something that already happens as being something new...

Yes it seems likely that it's one each way thing about it, that would also probably be possible to accommodate within the existing fleet.

 

[swt_passenger]

That rumour (of a rebranding) possibly comes from the fact that when an incumbent bids for a franchise, he usually needs a different legal name for the new company to run the new franchise. That doesn't mean the publicly used 'trading name' would be different if the bid was won though.

As an example, the current 'South West Trains' brand is operated by Stagecoach South Western Trains Ltd. Only a slight difference but this is a different company name to the pre 2007 version of the franchise, when it was the same as the public brand name with Ltd...

 

[richw]

That rumour (of a rebranding) possibly comes from the fact that when an incumbent bids for a franchise, he usually needs a different legal name for the new company to run the new franchise. That doesn't mean the publicly used 'trading name' would be different if the bid was won though.

As an example, the current 'South West Trains' brand is operated by Stagecoach South Western Trains Ltd. Only a slight difference but this is a different company name to the pre 2007 version of the franchise, when it was the same as the public brand name with Ltd...

Didn't First Great Western become First Greater Western in the last new franchise?

 

[swt_passenger]

Didn't First Great Western become First Greater Western in the last new franchise?

That's the sort of thing I mean, it wouldn't necessarily affect the public brand.

 

[455driver]

There is an extra seated coach on a Friday night I believe. Are they adding extra sleeping coaches or just seated coaches?

Its an extra sleeper coach not a seated coach.

 

[BestWestern]

This is probably galley gossip (so please take with a massive pinch of salt) but I heard rumours of a rebranding. Dropping "First" from the name. Or something.

Yes, talk is of debranding and staff being issued grey uniforms. One theory is that the First brand is considered "toxic". I have to say I fail to see the logic in that argument in a market where the majority of customers are not overburdened with choice.

 

[Eagle]

Well, there were murmurings last summer that First West Coast might adopt a Firstless brand for that reason.

 

[ModernRailways]

Wouldn't surprise me, and I don't blame them if they do. Removing the corporate livery too would be an idea. Same should happen for all their operations.

A lot of people see the word 'First' and moan. If it didn't say 'First' I would imagine at least 1/4 (possibly exaggerated) of those moaners would stop.

Capital Connect would seriously benefit, especially as the Great Northern is really brought down by Thameslink! If people don't think they are linked anymore because liveries are different/no longer branded 'First' then I imagine people will be a lot nicer towards FCC!

 

[BestWestern]

Wouldn't surprise me, and I don't blame them if they do. Removing the corporate livery too would be an idea. Same should happen for all their operations.

A lot of people see the word 'First' and moan. If it didn't say 'First' I would imagine at least 1/4 (possibly exaggerated) of those moaners would stop.

Capital Connect would seriously benefit, especially as the Great Northern is really brought down by Thameslink! If people don't think they are linked anymore because liveries are different/no longer branded 'First' then I imagine people will be a lot nicer towards FCC!

I very much doubt it, tbh. It would take very little time indeed for word to get around the it was still the same mob running it; the punters aren't daft! Rebranding/debranding Gt Western would he nothing but an enormous waste of (taxpayer's?!) money in opinion.

 

[jon0844]

Aren't the 365s getting a new grey vinyl on the outside with just Capital Connect written on it?

Perhaps a plan for all of its operations?

 

[Eagle]

Or just facing up to the reality that they're not the favourites to win the TSGN competition :P

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes, talk is of debranding and staff being issued grey uniforms. One theory is that the First brand is considered "toxic". I have to say I fail to see the logic in that argument in a market where the majority of customers are not overburdened with choice.

Been some murmurings out of the Dft recently that they arent fans of 'First', 'Stagecoach', 'Arriva' etc transport brands being used for multiple franchises and they wanted tocs going forward to adopt a more neutral individual brand for each franchise that could be reused by their sucessor like 'East Coast'.

 

[Eagle]

Well Stagecoach never use their name to brand their rail franchises (although they do use their colours), and Arriva seem to have dropped the idea of Arriva branding since winning XC. In a way it's only First and latterly NX who really seem to want to splash their name around.

 

[tbtc]

Wouldn't surprise me, and I don't blame them if they do. Removing the corporate livery too would be an idea. Same should happen for all their operations.

A lot of people see the word 'First' and moan. If it didn't say 'First' I would imagine at least 1/4 (possibly exaggerated) of those moaners would stop.

Capital Connect would seriously benefit, especially as the Great Northern is really brought down by Thameslink! If people don't think they are linked anymore because liveries are different/no longer branded 'First' then I imagine people will be a lot nicer towards FCC!

I'd imagine that 99% of passengers are unaware of who really runs Northern Rail, but that certainly doesn't stop them from complaining!

 

[IanXC]

I'd imagine that 99% of passengers are unaware of who really runs Northern Rail, but that certainly doesn't stop them from complaining!

Interestingly Northern are going in the opposite direction, having relatively recently added the joint venture partners names under their logo.

 

[ModernRailways]

I'd imagine that 99% of passengers are unaware of who really runs Northern Rail, but that certainly doesn't stop them from complaining!

Northern doesn't get as many public complaints though. They also don't have a particularly bad name. You get the odd moan here and there but nothing to the same extent as First do.

I very much doubt it, tbh. It would take very little time indeed for word to get around the it was still the same mob running it; the punters aren't daft! Rebranding/debranding Gt Western would he nothing but an enormous waste of (taxpayer's?!) money in opinion.

A lot of punters will think it's a change. Those committed to complaining will obviously realise, but the general passenger who just wants to get from A to B and doesn't care who the company is won't notice. First always seem to get bad press a lot more so than any other TOC. I believe Thameslink is one of First's main problems with getting that bad image. There is also the chance that if they are put into a neutral colour scheme - maybe something similar to East Coast - then it will be easier for the next operator whoever it may be.

It may be best for just Thameslink/Great Northern to become different branding and see how that goes for them with the GN keeping the First Corporate and Thameslink gaining a neutral colour scheme ready for the trains to move on to their new home.

 

[swt_passenger]

Something will have to give with TSGN, because there's little benefit having the same livery on their swish new trains running through the core and for example the 313s operating the Portsmouth - Littlehampton all stations stopper...

ISTM that calling the whole franchise Thameslink wouldn't work either, it'll just look wrong on any train going nowhere near London...

 

[Goldfish62]

SWT's readers are all live, but the cards are only issued on a voluntary trial basis. I think it's likely that no one is seen to use them because generally speaking the only ITSO users are season ticket holders on a couple of trial routes that don't yet include the London zones. So at any individual station you are probably looking at a very small subset of possible passengers

Then given that Wokingham isn't barriered, those few season ticket holders travelling only in the vicinity of the station will have no doubt realised they don't need to touch in and out. In fact what's more to the point, Wokingham may not even be part of the trial...

I think Staines to Wokingham is part of the trial, which is so low key that most people wouldn't notice it.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think Staines to Wokingham is part of the trial, which is so low key that most people wouldn't notice it.

That makes sense, because west of Wokingham would run into practical problems with FGW services and lack of readers at Reading.

So at Wokingham you'd be down to just the fraction of season ticket holders whose journey is eastbound but no further than Staines, so it'll probably be a very small proportion of the overall passenger numbers who'd have cards.

 

[ainsworth74]

Something will have to give with TSGN, because there's little benefit having the same livery on their swish new trains running through the core and for example the 313s operating the Portsmouth - Littlehampton all stations stopper...

ISTM that calling the whole franchise Thameslink wouldn't work either, it'll just look wrong on any train going nowhere near London...

I've been wondering what the winner is going to call themselves. 'The next train from platform 1 will be the 08:20 Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern service to Cambridge', hardly rolls of the tongue does it!

 

[WatcherZero]

Merseytravel recently blocked the TOC logo appearing in their revised livery.

http://moderngov.merseytravel.uk.net/ieListDocuments.aspx?MId=854