FGW first class HST coaches.

[83G/84D]

Does anyone know the reason why HST coaches formerly F, G & H are now K, L & M?

What is the reson for re-lettering them?

 

[TEW]

It's connected to the conversion of one First Class carriage to Standard. The new Standard Class carriages will be taking F and G I believe so it makes sense to re-letter the First Class carriages. I have heard that they make regain more logical letters once the work is complete.

 

[DownSouth]

Advertising linked to a future airline codeshare agreement

 

[luke_oliver]

TEW is correct

The following link gives a bit more detail.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/...s-seats-and-refreshed-first-class-environment

First Great Western has secured agreement with the Department for Transport to increase standard class capacity on all First Great Western’s High Speed Trains, by converting some of its first class carriages.
The deal will create almost 3,000 more standard class seats a day for customers across the network and deliver nearly 16% more standard class accommodation on high speed services into London in the busy morning peak.
This is on top of an increase in peak-time seats delivered by the company in the summer of 2012, through the rebuilding and upgrading of disused buffet cars to create additional seats.
First Great Western Managing Director Mark Hopwood said: "We know that, ultimately, the only long-term solution to busy services is more trains. New Intercity Express trains are on their way, however, it is still some time before they will be ready for service. The conversion of these carriages to create more standard class seating is crucial in the interim period."
In addition to the standard class re-seating, work will be undertaken to refresh the remaining first class accommodation, 1½ carriages per train, recognising the importance of this to commuter, business and leisure customers. This activity will include realignment of single seats, installation of privacy screens, more comfortable headrests, re-covered seats, new carpets and other changes designed to improve the experience for first class customers.

 

[BestWestern]

It has connections, I'm told, to the booking engines for reserved seats. It was apparently more workable to add extra, new coaches into the software than it would have been to ammend the spec for the existing coaches. There is also a suggestion that the relettering would allow for the HST sets retained after IEP to be reservable in 10 coach formation. Whilst something like seat reservations seems incredibly trivial in the grand scale of things, it is a good example of how much complexity is sometimes involved in dealing with relatively minor issues.

 

[Michael.Y]

Advertising linked to a future airline codeshare agreement

I heard the Justified Ancients of MuMu are making a comeback on the mini buffet sets.

 

[fgwrich]

Sorry for slightly changing the thread but it's easier given that we're talking about them at the moment.

Does anyone have any ideas as to why there is a set running around the middle of last week with a Mini Buffet the wrong way round? The rest of the set was as it should be, but with the buffet turned around.

 

[Goatboy]

It's all part of the DFT's desire to change FGW Intercity services into cheap commuter services for people who live in Reading and work in London.

 

[jopsuk]

I heard the Justified Ancients of MuMu are making a comeback on the mini buffet sets.

presumably one of those sets will be used on the last train to Trance Central? Departing, eternally, at 3am?

 

[TEW]

It's all part of the DFT's desire to change FGW Intercity services into cheap commuter services for people who live in Reading and work in London.

Because 80 extra seats and 8 extra tables are of no benefit to anyone else are they? These changes benefit the vast majority of people who travel Standard Class in FGW HSTs. It is not just a couple of peak time trains that are busy you know. I don't know why you are drawing a connection between First Class provision and whether a service qualifies as Intercity. Most people making long distance journeys on FGW do so in Standard Class.

 

[FOH]

Because 80 extra seats and 8 extra tables are of no benefit to anyone else are they? These changes benefit the vast majority of people who travel Standard Class in FGW HSTs. It is not just a couple of peak time trains that are busy you know. I don't know why you are drawing a connection between First Class provision and whether a service qualifies as Intercity. Most people making long distance journeys on FGW do so in Standard Class.

I think the other poster has a fair point. I used to commute from Basingstoke to Waterloo on a 10 coach 444. It was switched to a 12 coach 450 as it was 'regularly overcrowded'. I always sat in the rear coach and regularly had 2 seats to myself in the 444. When chatting to a guard he said at Woking they all cram on at the front to be on the tube first. Those Woking crammers made the train comfort worse for all other passengers further afield for a 20 odd minute journey.

 

[TEW]

That's completely different though. Replacing 444s with 450s decreases comfort overall because of the 2+3 seating. FGW aren't installing 2+3 seating, they're just adding extra 2+2 seating. 1.5 carriages of First Class will be sufficient on the vast majority of services. The only time it is likely to be busy is when it fills up with commuters in to London. First Class passengers are unlikely to be unable to get a seat on long distance journeys.

 

[FOH]

That's completely different though. Replacing 444s with 450s decreases comfort overall because of the 2+3 seating. FGW aren't installing 2+3 seating, they're just adding extra 2+2 seating. 1.5 carriages of First Class will be sufficient on the vast majority of services. The only time it is likely to be busy is when it fills up with commuters in to London. First Class passengers are unlikely to be unable to get a seat on long distance journeys.

If First Class passengers will always still get accommodation then I agree. My point was TOCs are increasingly setting fleets to meet demands from perhaps a single key station just outside of London where the journey is short enough that they will accept convenience over comfort anyway to the detriment of other longer distance passengers.

 

[higthomas]

He who shouts the loudest and pays the most gets what he wants?
Although the only other FGW services I have been on have either been jam packed, to Cornwall in the summer and to Oxford on a Worcester, or weirdly empty, from Cornwall in the Summer or Cheltenham. They were never full in one class empty in another, but seemed about the same in both, but on the one to Cornwall, I think that if one had replaced the first-class with standard I do think they would have had seats for everyone, so I do see the sense in this move, on some trains.

 

[jimm]

He who shouts the loudest and pays the most gets what he wants?
Although the only other FGW services I have been on have either been jam packed, to Cornwall in the summer and to Oxford on a Worcester, or weirdly empty, from Cornwall in the Summer or Cheltenham. They were never full in one class empty in another, but seemed about the same in both, but on the one to Cornwall, I think that if one had replaced the first-class with standard I do think they would have had seats for everyone, so I do see the sense in this move, on some trains.

I can't imagine which London-Oxford-Cotswolds trains you have been on with the same loading levels in first and standard class, because apart from a handful of weekday peak trains, the difference, day in, day out, is clear - standard busy and getting more so across even more of the day, first quiet. 60-odd first class seats is fine for most purposes here, the 180s run up and down all day outside the peaks and contra-peak without any danger of their 40-odd being filled.

Part of the reason is that first advances aren't offered on the Cotswold Line, which is the way seats in first on many West Country trains are being filled, not because of lots of people paying full-whack first class fares from Plymouth and Exeter. If FGW was getting in 80 or 90 full-fare passengers on every HST, it would have told the DfT what taking those seats out would do to its premium payments.

Why you would find a low loading from Cheltenham weird, I don't know. It (and Gloucester) aren't exactly great metropolises - those trains earn most of their money as part of the Swindon-London service.

Apart from the initial query about coach letters, this is starting to head back into the realms of this discussion

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=97893

Does anyone have any ideas as to why there is a set running around the middle of last week with a Mini Buffet the wrong way round? The rest of the set was as it should be, but with the buffet turned around.

During the Dawlish closure, the need to accommodate extra HSTs at the depots in Bristol and London meant it was a case of get things done as best you can, so the odd bit of shunting work to get coaches the right way round got put on the back-burner. There were coach Ds as Bs and so on at the time - though less obvious as they look the same externally - so I expect it will be dealt with shortly.

 

[455driver]

I was on a set today with 2 coaches the wrong way round.

I think I also saw a set which has had a 1st removed and another standard coach included, I was sure there were 6 standard class coaches.

 

[fgwrich]

I was on a set today with 2 coaches the wrong way round.

I think I also saw a set which has had a 1st removed and another standard coach included, I was sure there were 6 standard class coaches.

I also saw a set with a TGS at the wrong end but the same number of Mk3s in the rake as usual. Sounds like there's some bizarre rakes in the FGW Fleet at the moment then!

 

[richw]

Part of the reason is that first advances aren't offered on the Cotswold Line, which is the way seats in first on many West Country trains are being filled, not because of lots of people paying full-whack first class fares from Plymouth and Exeter. If FGW was getting in 80 or 90 full-fare passengers on every HST, it would have told the DfT what taking those seats out would do to its premium .

I booked my wife a train ticket a few days back, for a few weeks time, there were no cheap standard advances available, however still cheap first advances, so as she knows exactly what services she will need she's going first class as it was cheaper for us. Origin is Redruth and the destination has completely gone blank at this moment. This booking tells me they have too much first class at the moment on that service from Redruth.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I also saw a set with a TGS at the wrong end but the same number of Mk3s in the rake as usual. Sounds like there's some bizarre rakes in the FGW Fleet at the moment then!

How many "normal" passengers will even notice?

 

[fgwrich]

Going back to this thread for a moment I had a chance to take a look around a few of the converted Mk3s in Paddington earlier and noticed one thing - possibly the easiest way to tell your in an ex Mk3 FO is that while the seating is the standard Grammar seating which FGW use but with more tables, the carriage lighting remains unchanged from FC days - In the standard class saloons it can be quite bright, whereas in FC it is slightly muted, slightly yellow - ish tint.

 

[tiggerpooh1123]

I contacted FGW on live chat this evening and I was fed some twaddle about the new 1st class seating plans for coaches K and L not being made available to the public. If this is the case then why are the previous versions so widely available on websites like Trainline?

How do I know whether or not the seats that I am being given are suitable? - I don't!

 

[Manchester77]

I contacted FGW on live chat this evening and I was fed some twaddle about the new 1st class seating plans for coaches K and L not being made available to the public. If this is the case then why are the previous versions so widely available on websites like Trainline?

How do I know whether or not the seats that I am being given are suitable? - I don't!

They're converting a first class coach to standard to create more capacity for the vast majority of users who use standard. I don't think there's any sets which have been done yet only some which have gone for conversion hence why FGW aren't providing a seating plan.

 

[hassaanhc]

I'm sure I've seen a few rakes that have 1 First, 1 Half First/Buffet and 6 Standard, but I don't know whether they're existing coaches or converted ones. As I've never been on any HST at all* I can't say for sure

[*] Plans are in the pipeline for it! The only Mk3 coach I went on very briefly was a Greater Anglia one, with their ancient interiors!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm sure I've seen a few rakes that have 1 First, 1 Half First/Buffet and 6 Standard, but I don't know whether they're existing coaches or converted ones. As I've never been on any HST at all* I can't say for sure

I've seen some of these rakes; the extra Standard vehicle is indeed from the conversion number sequence.

 

[TEW]

There's quite a few rakes with 6 Standard and 1.5 First Class carriages now. Not all of them have a newly converted Standard carriage as the extra one. I don't believe any of the First Class carriages have been refurbished yet though.

 

[hassaanhc]

So I wasn't going mad after all regarding the 6/1.5 split all were seen going past mainly between Southall and Paddington but also further west to West Drayton and Reading a couple of times. The vast majority are still with 2 First coaches, some days I seem to see most of them with half First & buffet, while other days the ones I see the buffet coach seems to only have a tiny amount of First, going by the length of the yellow stripe above the windows.

 

[bnm]

while other days the ones I see the buffet coach seems to only have a tiny amount of First, going by the length of the yellow stripe above the windows.

Those will be sets with a Micro buffet (TSMB). There are no 1st class seats in this carriage with the short yellow stripe. Quite why FGW bothered to put the stripe above the door is beyond me.

 

[richw]

I'm sure I've seen a few rakes that have 1 First, 1 Half First/Buffet and 6 Standard, but I don't know whether they're existing coaches or converted ones. As I've never been on any HST at all* I can't say for sure

[*] Plans are in the pipeline for it! The only Mk3 coach I went on very briefly was a Greater Anglia one, with their ancient interiors!

I thought I seen one a week or so ago, then read on here none of the rakes have been reduced yet.

 

[TEW]

So I wasn't going mad after all regarding the 6/1.5 split all were seen going past mainly between Southall and Paddington but also further west to West Drayton and Reading a couple of times. The vast majority are still with 2 First coaches, some days I seem to see most of them with half First & buffet, while other days the ones I see the buffet coach seems to only have a tiny amount of First, going by the length of the yellow stripe above the windows.

If you only see a tiny strip of Yellow then those are the sets with Micro Buffets. They have 2 First Class carriages and 6 Standard, with a small buffet counter in Standard Class Carriage F, under the small strip of yellow.

 

[455driver]

I thought I seen one a week or so ago, then read on here none of the rakes have been reduced yet.

This place isnt the difinitive answer though is it!
There are far to many people who 'think' they know something and post as if it is fact.

There are lots of rakes running around with 1.5 and 6, many of them having converted (ex 1sts) in them, I have seen at least half a dozen converts numbers above 42550 which is the series used for the ex 1st class carriages.
When at crewe on Saturday I saw a rake of 1st en route to Kilmarnock for conversion.

Edit-
I saw a rake today with 2 buffet coaches, a normal one and a mini, the mini was being used as a standard class coach with the buffet locked up.

 

[richw]

I thought I seen one a week or so ago, then read on here none of the rakes have been reduced yet.

This place isnt the difinitive answer though is it!
There are far to many people who 'think' they know something and post as if it is fact.

There are lots of rakes running around with 1.5 and 6, many of them having converted (ex 1sts) in them

I think I also saw a set which has had a 1st removed and another standard coach included, I was sure there were 6 standard class coaches.

Today I travelled on a 6 + 1.5 so confirms to my own eyes that those who "think" are incorrect. Lead by 43137 (complete with a dead bird stuck to the front) and 43169 at the rear

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