FCC Staff Shortage

[313103]

You tell me why I should work on my days off mate. I would rather see my kids growing up than driving a train on my days off.

You tell me why I should work on my day off?

Perhaps because he does, doesn't he? or not as the case probably is!

If i choose not to work on my day off, does that mean i am taking industrial action?

Can someone please find me where it is stated in the statute books that i have to work on my day off?

As an aside do those of you who do not work on your day off is it construed as taking industrial action?

Or should it only apply to people like me who work in the rail industry?

 

[thelem]

You tell me why I should work on my days off mate. I would rather see my kids growing up than driving a train on my days off.

You tell me why I should work on my day off?

It's not about individual drivers not wanting to work their days off, especially if that is not something they were choosing to do before the industrial action.

You can hardly pretend though that there are not drivers who want to work their days off, but feel they can't because they want to support the industrial action.

It's really FCCs fault for not having enough drivers to start with though.

 

[Metroland]

As an aside do those of you who do not work on your day off is it construed as taking industrial action?

Legally yes, because the action is coordinated, therefore it is an industrial dispute. Therefore technically employees are opening themselves up to dismissal or court injunction, or suing by customers. There is nothing stopping passenger groups suing the TOC or individual staff.

Obviously dismissal is unlikely, because there is not a ready pool of drivers to take over, but under normal circumstances co-ordinated action like this would simply result in mass sacking.

http://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/p...-about-train-drivers-not-working-overtime.htm

 

[stut]

It's hardly just the railway industry that pressures people to work on their days off - employment contracts in my industry tend to state that, although there are core working hours, you are required to work extra hours when urgent work requires it, and that's on top of a mobility clause (yes, you too can go and stay in a Travelodge in Basingstoke all week - woohoo!) And overtime pay? Hahahahah, you must be joking.

When you're working for a good company, you recognise that urgent situations do crop up, you can't afford to put in contingency for every single situation, and that some things need to be done out of hours. You put in a bit extra, but you get something back out of it (the odd morning off, the odd half day for a weekend away, etc, etc). Fine. However, it's easy to see those businesses who've figured out that, if they can have all of their staff permanently overallocated, they can underbid on contracts and get more work in, under the guise of efficiency. Pretty quickly into a project and guess what? It all becomes urgent, and suddenly you're working silly hours (my record is a 110 hour week, which included 2 28-hour sessions).

Such companies then begin to expect the extra hours as standard, although this is always unwritten. You are expected to provide 'flexibility', which means working when they see fit. And then the subtle shift starts: you go from getting a little back from putting in the extra to being looked down on when you don't. You're not a 'team player', you're not 'dedicated' to the company. You get to the kind of situation where you putting in a 'personal appointment' for the weekend results in raised eyebrows - even though it's a 38-hours-per-week Mon-Fri job. That's when it's time to get out. It's hard to resist this kind of thing, but it's all too common.

So well done to the drivers for resisting it. It's the sign of a severely ailing company, and it's better to remedy it than simply to walk away.

 

[Metroland]

Traditionally the railway has an overtime culture, where jobs are left open so employees can gain extra pay by working booked days off. This has generally been a (unofficial) joint agreement between management and employee, but clearly it leaves the employer open in these sorts of disputes.

 

[stut]

Traditionally the railway has an overtime culture, where jobs are left open so employees can gain extra pay by working booked days off. This has generally been a (unofficial) joint agreement between management and employee, but clearly it leaves the employer open in these sorts of disputes.

As in many industries, but it's a tricky balance to maintain. Well implemented, and it's a benefit to both employer and employee. If either party abuses it (employer using it as a way to cut staffing costs, employee using it to get unworkable shift patterns) then it's going to crumble. Or am I misunderstanding what's happened here?

 

[Metroland]

Traditionally the railway has an overtime culture because of low basic pay. During the Clapham Junction accident inquiry, it was found that many signal technicians were doing 100 hour working weeks to make ends meet. Drivers, signalmen, station employees and others were also found to be working long hours.

The inquiry recommended the cap on the working week be 72 hours. This is however a recommendation not binding, and at the Ladbroke Grove accident inquiry it was found the signaller involved had worked over 72 hours in order to cover the training requirements of others.

European law has traditionally had the railway exempt for the max 48 hour week, and I'm not entirely sure what the position is now. Nevertheless the overtime culture has persisted, whether this saved the employer money (bearing in mind overtime is paid an an enhanced rated) I don't know.

Clearly when employees feel aggrieved there is nothing stopping them not working overtime, is it not uncommon to see individuals refusing to work Sundays etc Managers consider this when employees apply for promotion, so there is a certain amount of pressure to work overtime.

Where the whole system comes unstuck is if there is coordinated bans on overtime, with most training taking place in house and long lead times, the employer ultimately has little choice but to comply, hence its very easy to get wages pushed up.

Unions have held a powerful lobbying position in the past, with recent accidents, on getting things carried out 'in house', because contractors have found to be unreliable- this has often been supported by the press. So railway managers have little flexibility in these situations when disputes arise, and generally have no choice in the end but to 'pay up'.

 

[EM2]

Do all sections of the railway industry not have an enforced 11-hour rest period between shifts? If |I book off at 11pm, I am not allowed to book back on until 10am to ensure I have adequate rest. That's whether I'm doing overtime or normal working hours.

 

[BlythPower]

It's hardly just the railway industry that pressures people to work on their days off - employment contracts in my industry tend to state that, although there are core working hours, you are required to work extra hours when urgent work requires it, and that's on top of a mobility clause (yes, you too can go and stay in a Travelodge in Basingstoke all week - woohoo!) And overtime pay? Hahahahah, you must be joking.
...

Sounds like you work for an IT company.

I work in IT for a non-IT company. I'd rather stack shelves in Tesco on minimum wage than work for an IT company given the way they treat employees.

 

[GB]

Customers suing individual staff members?? Id like to see them try and I suspect they would not get very far!

Providing it is in black and white within your contract that you are not required to work your rest days then that is that...it is upto others to prove that you are taking unofficial action.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do all sections of the railway industry not have an enforced 11-hour rest period between shifts? If |I book off at 11pm, I am not allowed to book back on until 10am to ensure I have adequate rest. That's whether I'm doing overtime or normal working hours.

Ours is 12 hrs for safety critical work and is rigorously enforced and adhered to.

I know at Network Rail that on the week end you could do 1400-2200 Saturday and come back for a 0600-1800 shift on the Sunday! Not very pleasent!

 

[Pumbaa]

Joyous... LM are back at it again...!

 

[73110]

There is a seperate post for that, let's keep this FCC!

 

[Metroland]

Customers suing individual staff members?? Id like to see them try and I suspect they would not get very far!

It's unlikely, but if a court proved that it was unofficial industrial action it is possible, that's all I'm saying. But it's more likely customers would get compensation from the TOC as a remedy in the real world.


http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/employment/employment-legislation/employment-guidance/page18472.html

 

[Mojo]

Do all sections of the railway industry not have an enforced 11-hour rest period between shifts? If |I book off at 11pm, I am not allowed to book back on until 10am to ensure I have adequate rest. That's whether I'm doing overtime or normal working hours.

Back in the summer I finished at 22.00 one night and was back in at 06.30 the next day, although I hasten to add that was entirely my own choice and I didn't have to accept that time.

 

[ungreat]

I've heard all this before,in messrooms and on sites such as this.

In 22 years on the railway I have NEVER,ever heard of anyone being sued/disciplined or otherwise when you don't work overtime.It doesn't happen,it can't happen.If you are not contracted to do so,then you can't be touched.

Generally,it's the money men at our place who use this argument to justify their greed on working every rest day/sunday etc going.If you struggle to manage on our basic wage,then woe betide you if the railways ever did employ enough staff that would enable rest day working to stop!

 

[EM2]

Back in the summer I finished at 22.00 one night and was back in at 06.30 the next day, although I hasten to add that was entirely my own choice and I didn't have to accept that time.

Interesting. If I come in and try to book on with less than eleven hours gap, even if it's my own choice, I am not allowed. And I'm not safety critical either!

 

[SWT Driver]

The computerised sign on system won't allow you to do it on SWT, at least not without a manual override.

Although saying that I doubt an ORM would be willing to sign you on a single minute before the 12hr deadline anyway in case something happens.

 

[313103]

Back in the summer I finished at 22.00 one night and was back in at 06.30 the next day, although I hasten to add that was entirely my own choice and I didn't have to accept that time.

Whilst this is digressing from the original point, how would you stand in a court of law if you had made an error and lives were either lost or severely put at risk?

Do you think your company would support you?

Do you think the Judge would sympathize and be lenient with you?

If you are in a trade union how do you think they could possibly help?

I am not trying to be argumentative but the questions i have asked have a lot of relevance.

Most companies would drop you at a hat, the judge will probably have no experience of railway operations.

 

[Mojo]

Whilst this is digressing from the original point, how would you stand in a court of law if you had made an error and lives were either lost or severely put at risk?

It's standard practice for such shifts to be allocated in this manner and other members of staff have done similar late > early shifts. I am not safety critical staff and nothing I do in my job could have injured people over and above what a normal passenger could have done.

 

[313103]

It's standard practice for such shifts to be allocated in this manner and other members of staff have done similar late > early shifts. I am not safety critical staff and nothing I do in my job could have injured people over and above what a normal passenger could have done.

Ok thank you, and im sorry if i came across as being abrupt.

 

[Edvid]

A FCC driver named 'Sean' has spoken about the latest deal on the 'Crapmaster' site (see the sixth batch of comments):

Ballot results due tomorrow. The latest pay offer has NOW been linked to a productivity deal. They want drivers to have the trains prepared by a "third party" so the drivers have to put in more driving hours.
Prepping a train at the depot involves having a good traction knowledge, and the customers know how reliable these trains are !!!! If the drivers didn't spot faults on the trains in the depot at the start of the day the breakdowns would increase considerably.
Who are the "third party" ?
Nothing like driving 5 or 6 hours non-stop with 700 passengers , 300 tonnes at 100 mph. So much for driving down the hours.
Other productivity clauses are involved in the offer.
Generally the drivers want to prepare their own trains in the morning. The money is not the thing here, and never has been. Once again it's the lack of numbers which has been the issue for years.
The pay offer is fine. The objection involves this productivity clause which will actually save FCC money.

If today's crucial meeting is not yet finished then it should still be underway now.

 

[Richardr]

The strike is off

http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/116487/fcc_strike_called_off/

 

[jon0844]

And now, as Christmas approaches, drivers will be REALLY wanting to go Christmas shopping!!

 

[73110]

They still think they are going to run a full service next week or the week after........

They reckon drivers didn't sign up for rest days this week as they only just found out the new deal and they are hoping that drivers will sign up for the following week. Sorry to disappoint FCC but no one is going t sign up for RD work, well maybe one or two but the majority are staying off.

Crew room rumour suggests that the deal will not go through and the situation will continue like this for sometime now.

 

[jon0844]

Surely on the GN side at least, the temptation to make all that overtime will be too much for the drivers that used to volunteer all the time?

 

[73110]

Don't know about GN but TLK drivers are getting used to the time off now and quite like it. Those whom I chatted with today and the last few days, even the hardcore "13 out of 14 days" drivers are enjoying time off with their families.

Anyhow, this email is doing the rounds from a FCC driver;

My thoughts are that the pay offer should be rejected, it is like the harmonisation offer that we got, it changed all that year and we ended up worse off.

In that harmonisation deal, it was put that future pay deals would be on the first Monday of every April, but as we all know, that has gone by the way side. Whats to say that this deal will not change as the year/2 years goes on this latest offer, it is not a straight forward deal and there is in it a lot of opportunity for the management to change things in it.

We would be foolish to accept this deal, it is after all, the company that needs us and not the other way round, when national express lost their franchise, did it affect the drivers, NO, it did not, they still have their jobs.

On Monday, FCC HAVE to run a normal service, no more emergency timetable, they say that they will be doing this, I cant see how, but then that's not my problem. The mighty red (shift) are long weekend this weekend, so I would hope that they will be carrying on the way we are, the pay offer has not been accepted after all, it still has to be voted for.

We are in the greatest position that any drivers have ever been in, if we all stick together, we can show the union and management that we are a force to be reckoned with, if we let them fob us all of with this deal, they will have over a barrel for ever.

The non working of rest days is the choice of drivers, not the union, it is not up to the union or anybody else to tell you, me or anyone else when to start working rest days again, why certain managers and union reps are going round telling drivers to start working rest days again is beyond me, its not up to them, its for the individual to decide when and if they want to work a rest day, not for anybody else like those already mentioned, to put pressure on them.

We should all still stick together on this and show a united front, Bedford drivers need to look at this deal again, check what you maybe signing up to, no prep means more time in the seat, and was it not aslef that were saying not long ago that driving hours should be reduced, and they (aslef) think this is a good deal??.

A lot of drivers agree with this too.

 

[westcoaster]

Don't know about GN but TLK drivers are getting used to the time off now and quite like it. Those whom I chatted with today and the last few days, even the hardcore "13 out of 14 days" drivers are enjoying time off with their families.

Anyhow, this email is doing the rounds from a FCC driver;



A lot of drivers agree with this too.

HERE HERE

The mighty red (shift) are long weekend this weekend

:roll: umm least said soon is ................

 

[jon0844]

I bet that the 'stick together' idea will fail when people see the chance to make some more cash. I am sure FCC knows this will happen, although Christmas may be an exception.

 

[O L Leigh]

I'm not going to say too much about train prep and it's part in this dispute. As an outsider with at least some knowledge of how WAGN used to work, I can't help but wonder that this particular issue is something that worries the TL side more than the GN side. Either way, when compared to what was given up at harmonisation, especially in connection with time spent "in the chair" (things that FCC so far appear not to have taken full advantage of), train prep as just a drop in the ocean. Using this as the basis for rejecting the current offer may not guarantee success.

What alarms me a little more is the second quoted e-mail. The author is absolutely correct in his assertion that RDW and overtime in general is voluntary, but that only serves to highlight what the long-term outcomes of this dispute are likely to be.

FCC have been living on a knife-edge in terms of driver numbers for a while, to the extent that even operating a normal service requires quite a large number of drivers to make themselves available for extras. Currently the drivers are using this shortfall to their advantage. However, what is to stop the company from making a short-term offer that is acceptable to the majority and then using the time this buys them to increase depot establishments? There is no shortage of applicants willing to take up positions within the driving grade. Naturally this will cost the company, but it would dilute the driver's influence and ability to undermine the service.

NXEA had an overtime ban prior to the strike last summer. Did anyone notice? No, because depot establishments are high enough to ensure that cancellations were few and far between.

I don't agree that FCC drivers are in the strongest position of any drivers at any time. FCC are not stupid and, as outlined above, almost certainly see this as just a short-term problem to be dealt with before they can wheel out the solution that prevents a recurrence. This could come from increasing depot establishments or from taking better advantage of the productivity measures given away at harmonisation. Either way, I firmly believe that FCC drivers need to be fully aware of the position they currently occupy and not fixate on the immediate issue of this pay offer.

Please, someone tell me I'm wrong to worry about all this.

O L Leigh

 

[Failed Unit]

They still think they are going to run a full service next week or the week after........

They reckon drivers didn't sign up for rest days this week as they only just found out the new deal and they are hoping that drivers will sign up for the following week. Sorry to disappoint FCC but no one is going t sign up for RD work, well maybe one or two but the majority are staying off.

Crew room rumour suggests that the deal will not go through and the situation will continue like this for sometime now.

The website is still using the emergency timetable for the foreseable future. It is amazing to me that FCC can't run 50% of thier off peak timetable without drivers volenteering for overtime. Not really a way to run a business. I know supermarkets may have a lot of staff working on overtime at this time of year, but they certainly won't have any shut due to staff not volenteering to work. I know it takes a lot longer to train up a driver then it does a shelf stacker, but this situation hasn't appeared over night.

Just for interest of the diagrams that are working what is the chance of seeing the 377's on the Bedford - Brighton route?