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FCC - Is it really the WORST rail operator
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Geezertronic
Established Member
London Midland? I'd be interested to hear your reasons why...
Drsatan
Established Member
Last time I looked, an anytime day single from Exeter St Davids to Bristol TM (priced by FGW) is £22.50 - quite reasonable for an 80 mile journey - but a single at the same time of day all the way to Gloucester is £44. However, an OP single from BTM to Gloucester is just £7.30, so if both tickets are bought together you end up with a saving of £14.20. It's because the fare to Gloucester is priced by XC even though FGW operate to Gloucester.
It's fare anomalies like these requiring an intimate knowledge of fares rules and stations where fares can be rebooked that, IMO, means that all fares should be set by ATOC, and not the TOCs
Lampshade
Established Member
TPE???
hock:I've found them to be brilliant personally and I travel with them fairy regularly, what have you found that I haven't?
Fares should be set by an independent body, I agree that ATOC setting the fares would be more consistent - consistently high, since when has ATOC been pro-passenger?
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TPE???
I've found them to be brilliant personally and I travel with them fairy regularly, what have you found that I haven't?
Exhorbitantly priced for what they are. They seem to have an inflationary effect on all of their routes that I have to use - even for local journeys. £17 for a walk-on single from Hull to Leeds - and that without even a buffet trolley
Also, they refused my part refund once when their replacement bus got me to my destination well over 30 minutes late. Apparently putting a few posters up allows you to ignore your passengers charter obligations.
Many passengers comment on how GC is more comfortable than any other operator, in fact some passengers commented on that fact very recently, they have good satisfaction ratings and they have more leg room than any other operator. One or two people have a grudge against them for no logical reason. Their customer service is very good and their buy on board policy is great for passengers. How can anyone moan at that?!
I'd say XC is the worst long distance operator, and FCC is the worst outer suburban operator.
GNERman
Established Member
I kind of agree with the TPE bit.
From my experience they seem to be very reliable and always on time.
BUT
They do have a big problem with the trains because they have no buffet car for what can be quite a long journey.
They also don't feel very comfortable for a long journey, partly becuase of the off-set doors.
I also think they should get them lengthened pretty soon becuase they do get very crowded.
starrymarkb
Established Member
They won't get lengthened as the 185 line is now closed. DfT blocked the lengthening (after about a year with Siemens keeping the line on standby to build) with the plan for new units for FGW and TPE (Siemens were not shortlisted) which itself was later cancelled with FGW now getting 319s, and TPE getting 350s for Manc/Scotlands to release 185s
All this being pre election, the blue lot might stall on GWML electrification according to http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...d-8211-Cameron/article-2060294-detail/article.
All this being pre election, the blue lot might stall on GWML electrification according to http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...d-8211-Cameron/article-2060294-detail/article.
GNERman
Established Member
I think that 350's is a waste of an opportunity for TPE as they still only do 100mph, what about new build stock that could do 110 perhaps?
Chapeltom
Established Member
I think TransPennine Express are brilliant. Been to Lancaster and York from Manchester Piccadilly + various other short journeys and always enjoyed their trains. A couple of delays but normally to time, comfortable and relaxing.
London Midland are vert decent, very nice legroom and I was travelling from Crewe to Winsford, loved it. 9 minute journey you wouldn't mind going for 90 minutes.
I would like to think I love Northern Rail but in reality the trains are rubbish and the conductors often complain they can't do anything about overcrowding.
London Midland are vert decent, very nice legroom and I was travelling from Crewe to Winsford, loved it. 9 minute journey you wouldn't mind going for 90 minutes.
I would like to think I love Northern Rail but in reality the trains are rubbish and the conductors often complain they can't do anything about overcrowding.
If you are a Studenty type who only travels every so often, TPE are great.
If you happen to Commute on their routes, TPE are rubbish.
They have been costcutting for some time now, focusing on their profitable routes, of which they make a poor job of anyway(Manchester-Scotland). Manchester-Leeds has a 15min service(and 3tph to York), but it gets horrendously overcrowded from 3pm to 7pm Monday-Saturday.
On their Cleethorpes-Doncaster-Manchester Route it's even worse with 3 car Trains being replaced by 2 car ones in Peak Commuting hours. with EMT not always able to supply 4 Car 158s for their Liverpool Services, the Sheffield-Manchester route can be miserable at times.
TPE love to state they are investing in this, that and the other, but in reality the money is coming from DfT Grants or other Local Authorities(Metro, GMPTE etc.) Firstgroup hardly put any money in and have no interest in improving the service whatsoever.
If you happen to Commute on their routes, TPE are rubbish.
They have been costcutting for some time now, focusing on their profitable routes, of which they make a poor job of anyway(Manchester-Scotland). Manchester-Leeds has a 15min service(and 3tph to York), but it gets horrendously overcrowded from 3pm to 7pm Monday-Saturday.
On their Cleethorpes-Doncaster-Manchester Route it's even worse with 3 car Trains being replaced by 2 car ones in Peak Commuting hours. with EMT not always able to supply 4 Car 158s for their Liverpool Services, the Sheffield-Manchester route can be miserable at times.
TPE love to state they are investing in this, that and the other, but in reality the money is coming from DfT Grants or other Local Authorities(Metro, GMPTE etc.) Firstgroup hardly put any money in and have no interest in improving the service whatsoever.
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CarterUSM
Established Member
TPE go to London? I had no idea?!!
To be honest, I don't mind Northern. Yes, some of the trains are rubbish - although they do have some 158's which I prefer to the 185's. But I find they do make an effort and don't seem to charge as much on their routes as TPE.
CarterUSM
Established Member
Make that Manchester-Scotland
Ha ha. Though in fairness, i actually thought i was ignorant of the alleged fact.
Never travelled with FCC so i cannot comment on this discussion, though i did find TPE's Manchester-Scotland a bit overcrowded for my liking. :cry:Well, as a commuter on Biggleswade to King's Cross.
FCC GN Route are a mixed bag.
On the plus side, they've done a lot of refurbishment work - far more than WAGN did - on stations (particularly reopening waiting rooms) and in the trains. Some has been good, some very perfunctory. Cleaning - particularly evenings and weekends - is significantly better. Timekeeping, generally, is rather good. Clever steps have been taken (cascaded trains, stopping patterns, providing viable alternative journeys) to reduce overcrowding based on decent passenger survey numbers. Information at times of disruption has improved vastly since WAGN, even if it did take them a while to get this together. Perhaps controversially, the evening peak restrictions are great for commuters, if rather less good for day trippers. The new Super Off-Peak ticket, though, is a genuine reduction, and very well priced.
On the negative side? More 321s on the Peterborough Route, and these are incredibly uncomfortable trains - it's almost better to stand. The unrefurbished units that are still kicking around are diabolical. A small but visible section of the RPI staff is aggressive, rude, and acts illegally. Some gateline staff can be like this too. Restrictions on folding bikes were changed, but by redefining terms, and generally unannounced. Fares are a joke - this is hardly unique to them, but they're definitely not at the lower end of London commuter fares. First Class is terrible, and so badly policed I'll often avoid using it if I have, say, a connecting FC ticket via Peterborough. The current safety announcement & departure board fiasco is just silly (so glad I have the iPhone app).
I've had worse, but the annoying thing is that so many of the things going wrong are down to a bad attitude.
FCC GN Route are a mixed bag.
On the plus side, they've done a lot of refurbishment work - far more than WAGN did - on stations (particularly reopening waiting rooms) and in the trains. Some has been good, some very perfunctory. Cleaning - particularly evenings and weekends - is significantly better. Timekeeping, generally, is rather good. Clever steps have been taken (cascaded trains, stopping patterns, providing viable alternative journeys) to reduce overcrowding based on decent passenger survey numbers. Information at times of disruption has improved vastly since WAGN, even if it did take them a while to get this together. Perhaps controversially, the evening peak restrictions are great for commuters, if rather less good for day trippers. The new Super Off-Peak ticket, though, is a genuine reduction, and very well priced.
On the negative side? More 321s on the Peterborough Route, and these are incredibly uncomfortable trains - it's almost better to stand. The unrefurbished units that are still kicking around are diabolical. A small but visible section of the RPI staff is aggressive, rude, and acts illegally. Some gateline staff can be like this too. Restrictions on folding bikes were changed, but by redefining terms, and generally unannounced. Fares are a joke - this is hardly unique to them, but they're definitely not at the lower end of London commuter fares. First Class is terrible, and so badly policed I'll often avoid using it if I have, say, a connecting FC ticket via Peterborough. The current safety announcement & departure board fiasco is just silly (so glad I have the iPhone app).
I've had worse, but the annoying thing is that so many of the things going wrong are down to a bad attitude.
90019
Established Member
To be fair, that's not exactly something they get to decide on.
Aictos
Established Member
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True, it's partly down to the DfT specifying what trains FCC will get - FCC can request so many trains but the final decision lies with the DfT, look at the 185s when FTPE wanted them as 4 cars and DfT interferred and kept them as 3 cars.
Saying that, I don't think they're half bad and are good units to have.
I do realise their hands are tied in many respects - although if they're happy to rip out, move and completely change FC, they could easily have improved the seating elsewhere if the will had been there.
OTOH, as a commuter, with no choice of railway company, I don't really care who put them there, I just care that when they turn up, I know it's going to be an unpleasant 40 minutes.
OTOH, as a commuter, with no choice of railway company, I don't really care who put them there, I just care that when they turn up, I know it's going to be an unpleasant 40 minutes.
Aictos
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I see two of my posts have yet to be answered...
1. Why do people hate the 321s so much?
2. Instead of spending millions on the NXEMUs why not just stick with the 377s or 379s insted?
I wait patiently for a reply!
1. Why do people hate the 321s so much?
2. Instead of spending millions on the NXEMUs why not just stick with the 377s or 379s insted?
I wait patiently for a reply!
Well, in my case for the 321, it's all about comfort (and bear in mind I travel mostly at peak times). The seats are terrible - you're pretty much always facing somebody, so playing footsie with them all the way, given there's little room and the seats are so low down. The backs are angled so that Reading gives you a sore neck after about 10 minutes. None of the windows are aligned so you can barely see out. The seat width is a good couple of inches less than the width of my shoulders, so you're either that little bit too intimate or you're one buttock off at all times. There's no storage and tiny vestibules, so any luggage is automatically in the way.
Off peak isn't quite as bad, but it's still difficult to get comfortable. In comparison the 365s, hardly a paragon of generous seating (my knees can only just fit in one of their airline seats) are positively luxurious.
Off peak isn't quite as bad, but it's still difficult to get comfortable. In comparison the 365s, hardly a paragon of generous seating (my knees can only just fit in one of their airline seats) are positively luxurious.
The 321s... We were so glad to see the back of them from the WCML!
The seats are crap, threadbare if ex-NSE moquette, are very low down, crap legroom, just generally uncomfortable. Biggest problem for us was the fact that neither Silverlink or London Midland even bothered to touch them, we were left with units exactly how they were before privatisation.
Just generally crap units, the 350/2s are a godsend!
The seats are crap, threadbare if ex-NSE moquette, are very low down, crap legroom, just generally uncomfortable. Biggest problem for us was the fact that neither Silverlink or London Midland even bothered to touch them, we were left with units exactly how they were before privatisation.
Just generally crap units, the 350/2s are a godsend!
TPE were quite bad - I remember repeatedly having problems 5 years or so back - but they've improved steadily over the years.
Northern I can imagine are poor on urban/suburban services, but are great in more rural areas and are the only TOC that I know of who really push the rover fares properly; duo tickets are also good value.
TBH cross country seem to have improved since they first got the franchise, but I'm still not keen, for all the reasons noted previously - poor reservation system, small trains, removal of shop car and often overpriced tickets.
Northern I can imagine are poor on urban/suburban services, but are great in more rural areas and are the only TOC that I know of who really push the rover fares properly; duo tickets are also good value.
TBH cross country seem to have improved since they first got the franchise, but I'm still not keen, for all the reasons noted previously - poor reservation system, small trains, removal of shop car and often overpriced tickets.
I have to say that I don't mind them - but my journey is usually no more than 25 minutes on one. I guess people in Peterborough who were used to 365s would think differently.
Also, I tend to sit at either end of the train. Most of the time, the train is declassified and first class is very nice on them. When it isn't declassified, I'll be at the far end where you used to have storage for bikes and so on - and I can tuck myself into a corner airline seat.
FCC has refreshed most of them and they now have new seat covers and generally look quite smart inside (goes to show that BR had a pretty good train design in the 1980s). When they're busy, they must be every bit as bad as a 313 or 317 - but that's down to the 3+2 seating as much as anything else (three people struggle to fit). 2+2 is nicer there, for sure.
When they're not that busy, the thick seats are pretty comfortable and you can stretch out as there's unlikely to be someone directly in front of you.
Anyway - what I'm trying to say is that they'll be like Marmite - love em or hate em. Those people who hate them are just as 'right' as those who love them!
FCC does need to get some NEW trains on the GN side. I have no idea now whether this will happen in 2015, as it may just be the TL side that gets most new trains. We could find ourselves with these trains for many more years to come. The 365s will probably stand the test of time for the outer-suburban routes, but they lack comforts like air conditioning, Wi-Fi, power sockets and so on.
Also, I tend to sit at either end of the train. Most of the time, the train is declassified and first class is very nice on them. When it isn't declassified, I'll be at the far end where you used to have storage for bikes and so on - and I can tuck myself into a corner airline seat.
FCC has refreshed most of them and they now have new seat covers and generally look quite smart inside (goes to show that BR had a pretty good train design in the 1980s). When they're busy, they must be every bit as bad as a 313 or 317 - but that's down to the 3+2 seating as much as anything else (three people struggle to fit). 2+2 is nicer there, for sure.
When they're not that busy, the thick seats are pretty comfortable and you can stretch out as there's unlikely to be someone directly in front of you.
Anyway - what I'm trying to say is that they'll be like Marmite - love em or hate em. Those people who hate them are just as 'right' as those who love them!
FCC does need to get some NEW trains on the GN side. I have no idea now whether this will happen in 2015, as it may just be the TL side that gets most new trains. We could find ourselves with these trains for many more years to come. The 365s will probably stand the test of time for the outer-suburban routes, but they lack comforts like air conditioning, Wi-Fi, power sockets and so on.
Ivo
Established Member
On the other hand Arriva Trains Wales doesn't seem bad.Don't let the anti-arriva gang hear you say that
Hear what?
TPE suffer from overcrowding; it's that simple. But LM are one of the best operators out there. Yes, 323s can get boring very quickly. And I dislike 321s (and, to a point, 150s also). But if that is all I can think of - well, and New Street! - then I have to disagree with you there. The only flaws I can think of are not their own.
87015
Established Member
Perhaps if you are ex-CT and have a memory of a goldfish, but not for anyone else.
Bring back Silverlink.
I miss both CT and Silverlink :-x I moved from Hemel (London Midland country) to Liverpool, thinking I'd be free. But I'm still stuck with sh*tty London Midland. They don't have a pot to p*ss in, they really don't.
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