Farnworth Tunnel Electrification.

[Joseph_Locke]

Farnworth Tunnel, for one thing.

Darwen for another.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

From what is freed up from Bolton having half the its normal level of services.

But most of the services will still be running, just by alternative routes. So even if they're not going via Bolton most will still be running, but another way. And with altered diagrams, additional time for the journey and suitable locations to attach or detach portions together it doesn't always mean that there are suddenly lots of units made available.

 

[Beano123]

Well there's at least a couple of diesels that sit around various parts of Preston for most of the day that the Hazel Grove's use at peak times. That's two Hazel Groves, or alternatives, strengthened. Other units will have to come from other places - like Marple/Rose Hill runs, the three unit formation that goes up to Buxton and alike.

Its a question of what do you prioritise - as Bolton is having a 50% service cut for a good few months the already overcrowded services will need strengthening. I just hope that someone has decided to do it rather than assuming that everything will be alright.

There are always units you can temporarily borrow from other places - yes you are robbing Peter to pay Paul, but that the unfortunate position that the railway finds itself in. A more radical suggestion is loco hauled coaching stock - it was managed for the TdF so why not this? I severely doubt its going to happen but its always an option.

As for coupling/uncoupling - why would you want to do that? People are going to want to get to there final destination generally and it is a huge faff. There are no practical places to do it,except maybe Preston on the Blackpools, and Bolton on the Blackburns. I am fairly certain that Northern do not like uncoupling/coupling while units are full of passengers.

At the end of the day its the job of the planners to try and make sure that the appropriate trains are strengthened according to Northern's (and TfGM et all) priorities are. If that means destrenghtening selected services and using the units for strengthening other so be it.

 

[northwichcat]

If that means destrenghtening selected services and using the units for strengthening other so be it.

That's not always as easy as it sounds.

Passenger counts showed that the highest loading on the 08:36 Hazel Grove-Preston was around 190 and the service was booked for a 4 car 150. On the other hand the 08:21 Preston-Hazel Grove was booked as a 2 car 150 and carried around 230 passengers for part of the services. TfGM and Northern were both in agreement that the 4 car diagram should be switched. However, the franchise agreement stated the 08:36 Hazel Grove-Preston had to be strengthened and DfT approval was needed for it to be changed.

DfT were of the opinion the 4 car diagram should remain as it is and one of the units freed up by electrification should be used to strengthen the other diagram. That then resulted in Hazel Grove-Preston wrongly getting priority for a released DMU from Chat Moss as 190 passengers on a 2 car 150 isn't one of the most overcrowded Northern services.

 

[Beano123]

I doubt that its any harder than arranging the other associated items with the Farnworth Tunnel blockade. Northern et al have had plenty of warning and hopefully they've managed to find enough units to strengthen services through Bolton from other places whatever the other places maybe. Either way I'm sure it's all been planned by now and all we can do is cross our fingers and hope that whatever plans are in place work!

 

[Inox]

To be fair to them, strengthening and logistics worked quite well in the summer during the Chorley blockade. I'm hoping for a similar level of delivery over the coming months.

 

[Trackman]

I’ve been through the tunnel today, lots of activity on the Manchester side -looks like a new massive access road constructed just before the retaining wall. New troughs on the up line are set back and other signalling cables are going through pipes in the tunnel on the up line. Think I may have spotted a new covered up signal on the up line too- could be wrong.

 

[snowball]

Are new crossovers going to be installed at one or both ends of the tunnel for the single line working?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Are new crossovers going to be installed at one or both ends of the tunnel for the single line working?

Both. One at Moses Gate and one just north of Kearsley.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Both. One at Moses Gate and one just north of Kearsley.

Being one who is also interested in the financial aspects of such matters, what is the current cost budget for installing a crossover.

 

[deltic08]

Being one who is also interested in the financial aspects of such matters, what is the current cost budget for installing a crossover.

Anywhere between £300-£700k according to turnout speed.

 

[WatcherZero]

Exact figures commercially sensitive, you don't want one supplier to know what you are paying another.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Anywhere between £300-£700k according to turnout speed.

In a piece of innovation, the project is making specific provision to re-use the crossovers once they are recovered - the longer one is identified to go into the proposed new Bolton layout, for instance.

 

[Lankyline]

In case anyone has missed this Network rail are posting updates on Twitter inc photos for the tunnel work, plus updates on the other bridge work etc between Chorley & Bolton at @NetworkrailNP

 

[Ploughman]

On the NYMR we installed a new crossover a couple of years ago near Pickering.
No idea on all the S+T costs or other work but the cost of the new, FB113, Fully Timbered layout was below £90K for the 2 turnouts.

 

[Emyr]

Kearsley footbridge is up, drawing attention to the mysterious crossing...

 

[snowball]

There are more pictures of it, including closeups, in LDECRexile's album - see the Blackpool-Manchester thread.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Kearsley footbridge is up, drawing attention to the mysterious crossing...

By "mysterious crossing" do you mean the patch of new ballast about 20y north of the station? If so, it's a UTX (under track crossing), required to move the cable route into the Down bore before the temporary trap points, crossover and tunnel construction site.

 

[Emyr]

By "mysterious crossing" do you mean the patch of new ballast about 20y north of the station? If so, it's a UTX (under track crossing), required to move the cable route into the Down bore before the temporary trap points, crossover and tunnel construction site.

I believe it's some kind of footpath-crossing that's being replaced with a footbridge.

I dubbed it "mysterious" as I didn't know it even existed until the footbridge was included in the plans. Initially I thought it was a misunderstanding as passengers access the Southbound platform at Kearsley via a tunnel, but this was corrected by a poster with better information...

 

[samj]

Looking at Platform arrangements for June at MCV whilst attempting to work out the diagrams, it seems as if Man Vic-Clitheroe/Blackpool services will interwork. Does anyone know how many carriages will be put on these routes?

 

[thealexweb]

Looking at Platform arrangements for June at MCV whilst attempting to work out the diagrams, it seems as if Man Vic-Clitheroe/Blackpool services will interwork. Does anyone know how many carriages will be put on these routes?

That is a shame. I was expecting a four car DMU for Clitheroe services and a six car DMU for the Blackpool North services to max out the use of the available paths. I say four cars for Clitheroe as it maxes out the platform lengths.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

During the period of these tunnel works and associated matter, will any of the railway stations between Manchester and Bolton be closed with no services stopping at them, as I keep hearing "rumours" to that effect.

 

[northwichcat]

During the period of these tunnel works and associated matter, will any of the railway stations between Manchester and Bolton be closed with no services stopping at them, as I keep hearing "rumours" to that effect.

Not quite close but this is what's happening at Kearsley on a weekday: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/KSL/2015/06/22/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt (Only services in Black are stopping and presumably all the replacement buses haven't been added yet.)

 

[thealexweb]

During the period of these tunnel works and associated matter, will any of the railway stations between Manchester and Bolton be closed with no services stopping at them, as I keep hearing "rumours" to that effect.

The official word is that all stations between Bolton and Salford Crescent will be shut for the duration of the work.

Moses Gate
Farnworth
Kearsley
Clifton

 

[northwichcat]

Looking at Platform arrangements for June at MCV whilst attempting to work out the diagrams, it seems as if Man Vic-Clitheroe/Blackpool services will interwork. Does anyone know how many carriages will be put on these routes?

If you're using RTT I don't think it's complete at the moment. There's an hourly Huddersfield-Victoria showing but a lack of services in the other direction!

 

[Llama]

That is a shame. I was expecting a four car DMU for Clitheroe services and a six car DMU for the Blackpool North services to max out the use of the available paths. I say four cars for Clitheroe as it maxes out the platform lengths.

Only three cars can be accomodated at Hall Ith Wood, Bromley Cross (despite there being a 4-car marker in the Up - it is only to get the back end of the train clear of the foot crossing), two cars at Entwistle, four cars (150) can just squeeze on at Darwen, and stations north of Blackburn were lengthened five years ago but can still now only just fit 153+156.

 

[thealexweb]

Only three cars can be accomodated at Hall Ith Wood, Bromley Cross (despite there being a 4-car marker in the Up - it is only to get the back end of the train clear of the foot crossing), two cars at Entwistle, four cars (150) can just squeeze on at Darwen, and stations north of Blackburn were lengthened five years ago but can still now only just fit 153+156.

Personally I have only been as far as Blackburn on a 156+153 (no one requested Entwistle). I have however been a four car DMU between Manchester Victoria and Bolton than carried on to Blackburn so I presumed its doors would be able to be utilised.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Stations north of Blackburn were lengthened five years ago but can still now only just fit 153+156.

Are there not plans for future platform lengthening at:-
Ramsgreave & Wilpshire
Langho
Whalley
Clitheroe

 

[Darren R]

Not quite close but this is what's happening at Kearsley on a weekday: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/KSL/2015/06/22/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt (Only services in Black are stopping and presumably all the replacement buses haven't been added yet.)

I'm assuming that the handful of services that are showing as stopping at Kearsley do so entirely for operational reasons rather than them being advertised passenger calls. If you check the times carefully, those 'stopping' services depart immediately after the passage of a train in the opposite direction.

 

[Greybeard33]

Only three cars can be accomodated at Hall Ith Wood, Bromley Cross (despite there being a 4-car marker in the Up - it is only to get the back end of the train clear of the foot crossing), two cars at Entwistle, four cars (150) can just squeeze on at Darwen, and stations north of Blackburn were lengthened five years ago but can still now only just fit 153+156.

See Joseph_Locke's posts #83 & #86 in this thread, regarding temporary platform lengthening on the Blackburn/Clitheroe line.