Fare increases - folk don't like them

[AndyLandy]

Yes I do understand where you are coming from I think the railway should do more to explain where the money is being spent.

As with so many things, it's also down to how the press choose to portray it, and if they ask Joe Arlesey Commuter, they're going to get a very different answer to someone like me, an Intercity leisure traveller.

 

[Dave1987]

As with so many things, it's also down to how the press choose to portray it, and if they ask Joe Arlesey Commuter, they're going to get a very different answer to someone like me, an Intercity leisure traveller.

Indeed I don't people realise the cost of a simple platform extension or installing a new footbridge. Small things like that.

 

[yorksrob]

As with so many things, it's also down to how the press choose to portray it, and if they ask Joe Arlesey Commuter, they're going to get a very different answer to someone like me, an Intercity leisure traveller.

Indeed. No commuter wants to travel to work on what they perceive as an old train, but it's impossible for all of them to have brand new ones.

 

[jon0844]

Indeed. No commuter wants to travel to work on what they perceive as an old train, but it's impossible for all of them to have brand new ones.

Imagine leasing trains on the basis that they get replaced every 3-4 years instead of 30-40! How much would fares have to rise then?

 

[Goatboy]

Imagine leasing trains on the basis that they get replaced every 3-4 years instead of 30-40! How much would fares have to rise then?

To most people a quality refurb is the same thing as a 'new train'. They don't know how old they are so judge purely on the quality and newness of the interior and exterior.

Presumably there are many people who think the Chiltern Mainline service has 'new trains'.

 

[Dave1987]

To most people a quality refurb is the same thing as a 'new train'. They don't know how old they are so judge purely on the quality and newness of the interior and exterior.

Presumably there are many people who think the Chiltern Mainline service has 'new trains'.

Indeed chiltern deserve all the praise they get with what they have done with their rolling stock and line improvements they have paid for. It is highly commendable

 

[Goatboy]

Indeed chiltern deserve all the praise they get with what they have done with their rolling stock and line improvements they have paid for. It is highly commendable

Absolutely - a rare success story. Improved services, entirely new level of service (ie, a true 'Intercity' service) and an excellent value fare structure.

 

[EM2]

Absolutely - a rare success story. Improved services, entirely new level of service (ie, a true 'Intercity' service) and an excellent value fare structure.

Yet reading their Twitter feed suggests that their recent timetable recasting has been less than popular. As the old saying goes, you can't please all of the people all of the time!

 

[DarloRich]

Indeed chiltern deserve all the praise they get with what they have done with their rolling stock and line improvements they have paid for. It is highly commendable

Absolutely - a rare success story. Improved services, entirely new level of service (ie, a true 'Intercity' service) and an excellent value fare structure.

They had to have their much vaunted "private" line improvements bailed out by another company.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/mar/02/chiltern-line-upgrade-delay-cost-claims

http://www.birminghampost.net/news/...ct-taken-over-by-network-rail-65233-28301762/

 

[455driver]

You have a really quite patronizing view of passengers don't you? Displayed across multiple comments.

I sincerely hope you don't have a customer facing role.

Catch the 0009 Waterloo to Guildford on a friday or saturday night (or is that saturday or sunday morning?) and then you will have your answer!

Have you ever seen what happens when somebody tries to throw up out of an opening window?
It runs down the glass, gets into the heaters and smells delightful, oh this was at 2030 so not even late.
I used to make announcements on the lines of-
"if you were feeling unwell please use the bins provided instead of the floor or seat opposite", manglement found out and told me to stop.

Unless you have direct knowledge of the state late night trains get in I would recommend that you dont comment until you do because you have Rather an ideological view of them.

 

[Dave1987]

If anyone wud like to see pictures of what the trains come in like at night so you can see will happily take some to prove how some passengers feel it is ok to leave a train. I appreciate most passengers do use bins provided but as usual the minority leave them in a horrible state.

 

[FGW_DID]

Not to mention the state they leave platforms, waiting rooms etc. when there is a bin about 10 ft away! I would hate to see the state of their houses!

 

[Temple Meads]

But you can't judge all passengers based on the revolting actions of a few, you wouldn't view all car drivers as irresponsible because a minority
run red traffic lights...

 

[NSEFAN]

But you can't judge all passengers based on the revolting actions of a few, you wouldn't view all car drivers as irresponsible because a minority
run red traffic lights...

I don't think anyone's saying that ALL pax are bad, but it doesn't take much litter to create the impression of a dirty train. Perhaps the pax who are most vocal about the fare increases aren't the same ones leaving coffee cups on the tables and throwing up over the seats.

 

[Goatboy]

If anyone wud like to see pictures of what the trains come in like at night so you can see will happily take some to prove how some passengers feel it is ok to leave a train. I appreciate most passengers do use bins provided but as usual the minority leave them in a horrible state.

Nobody needs photos of messy trains, we all know that people can and do trash things. But it's not relevent as 95% of people don't trash things.

 

[Pugwash]

Imagine leasing trains on the basis that they get replaced every 3-4 years instead of 30-40! How much would fares have to rise then?

it would be interesting to know over how many years leasing companies write off their trains.

 

[Dave1987]

Nobody needs photos of messy trains, we all know that people can and do trash things. But it's not relevent as 95% of people don't trash things.

Indeed as I said I know most passengers do not create the mess but my point is the trains come out positively sparkling compared to how they come in at night.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Improved journey times?
New/refurbished trains with renewed seating?
Higher frequency?
New destinations served?
Longer trains with more seats?
Catering provision?

Which route in the Northern Rail franchise has all those much-to-be-admired improvements incorporated ?..

I know what you are getting at, Paul, but many Northern passengers also have TPE options which have most of the above features.
There are also ATW options on a couple of routes with new-ish trains, LM 350s to Liverpool and even Voyager/Pendolino options too across the patch.
Blackburn, Glossop and Northwich can rightfully grumble but Stockport and Warrington have by and large had a good deal recently.
Northern is stuck will its old stock for a few years yet, but it is not all gloom in Northern-world.
The trouble is when you pay the same fare for an all-stops Pacer or non-stop Pendolino on the same route.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

what on earth are you talking about? There are about 4 people who live in Lincolnshire! How much do you expect them to spend on a rural, relativly affluent, low population area? How much do they spend on rural North Yorkshire, or County Durham or Devon and Cornwall?

Should the passengers ( the service users) not fund the cost of some of the upgrades? Should it all fall on the government?

How on hell are the passgengers going to fund the upgrades when the TOC's in that area run such shambolic services.

Low Population ?

Lincoln 104000
Gainsborough 20000
Grimsby 87000

How many people are "screaming out" for the Brigg Line to get weekday trains? It's a fairly empty part of the country - what big flow is being uncatered by this?

Im informed by West Lindsey & Brigg Town Council that the last time they brought up this issue before the last Northern Rail franchise ( 2004 I think ), they got a combined signature petition of just over 20000 for the reintroduction of some sort of Monday to Friday service

 

[tbtc]

Im informed by West Lindsey & Brigg Town Council that the last time they brought up this issue before the last Northern Rail franchise ( 2004 I think ), they got a combined signature petition of just over 20000 for the reintroduction of some sort of Monday to Friday service

As you may be aware, in Sheffield we have various bus routes running virtually empty that were "saved" in the October set of service changes because of the huge amount of public support/ signatures etc for them - the same people seem not to be using them though.

 

[Tracky]

Nobody needs photos of messy trains, we all know that people can and do trash things. But it's not relevent as 95% of people don't trash things.

I would say about 60% of my passengers respect the trains.

Not trashing as such but the 'litter' of empty cups and bottles, crisp packets and so on. And i really dislike the orange peel and banana skin trick - these are professional looking people who cannot use bins... Surely they must do better in their workplace so why can't they when they are in mine...

 

[island]

I would say about 60% of my passengers respect the trains.

Not trashing as such but the 'litter' of empty cups and bottles, crisp packets and so on. And i really dislike the orange peel and banana skin trick - these are professional looking people who cannot use bins... Surely they must do better in their workplace so why can't they when they are in mine...

The big problem is that some trains have few or no bins *cough Desiro cough*

 

[Dave1987]

The big problem is that some trains have few or no bins *cough Desiro cough*

They have plenty between the seats. At least on 360's they do which I believe are desiro's but I'm sure I will be corrected if wrong on that

 

[Tracky]

I agree with you in part but my trains are mostly 150's and 158's and they all have bins in every vestibule/doorway. The 158's also have between seats bins.

 

[yorksrob]

Catch the 0009 Waterloo to Guildford on a friday or saturday night (or is that saturday or sunday morning?) and then you will have your answer!

Have you ever seen what happens when somebody tries to throw up out of an opening window?
It runs down the glass, gets into the heaters and smells delightful, oh this was at 2030 so not even late.
I used to make announcements on the lines of-
"if you were feeling unwell please use the bins provided instead of the floor or seat opposite", manglement found out and told me to stop.

Unless you have direct knowledge of the state late night trains get in I would recommend that you dont comment until you do because you have Rather an ideological view of them.

I've no doubt that it wouldn't stop all of the disgusting goings on on trains, however your post does seem to highlight the absolute necessity of having toilets on modern trains, including those for suburban services.

It's one of the reasons why I'm highly sceptical about the current fashion for tramstitution on urban routes. Aside from self inflicted "illness" there's also norovirus which I know from experience (although fortunately not on public transport) can cause nausea to creep up very quickly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Imagine leasing trains on the basis that they get replaced every 3-4 years instead of 30-40! How much would fares have to rise then?

Too much for my taste ! I'd rather some new moquette and a fare cut.

 

[chuckles1066]

I would say about 60% of my passengers respect the trains.

Not trashing as such but the 'litter' of empty cups and bottles, crisp packets and so on. And i really dislike the orange peel and banana skin trick - these are professional looking people who cannot use bins... Surely they must do better in their workplace so why can't they when they are in mine...

Agreed entirely but their attitude will be "I'm paying x thousand a year for the privilege of (possibly) being able to board this cold train, that might turn up on time but probably won't if it turns up at all, they're making shedloads out of me so someone gets paid to clear my mess up".

Same reason punters don't worry about wasting water (unless they're on a meter).

You need to stop fleecing people and give them a service that they respect.

Trust me, as someone who has had the misfortune to endure what FGW pretend is a public service.

 

[radamfi]

One difference between trains in the UK and elsewhere in Europe is that bins outside the UK are normally located under the window or table, or occasionally between the two seats. Does UK loading gauge mean this isn't possible?

 

[Clip]

If anyone wud like to see pictures of what the trains come in like at night so you can see will happily take some to prove how some passengers feel it is ok to leave a train. I appreciate most passengers do use bins provided but as usual the minority leave them in a horrible state.

Me poor lass had to cancel one of her trains back in November as some nice person either took a dump themselves on the seat or let their dog do so. Luckily she was close to a depot(BED) so it was a quick swap but so disgusting.

And just the tip of the iceberg across her railway (DLR) and indeed many others.

As with everything you will only hear the worst of things rather than the good but that is life.

 

[Flamingo]

According to the pager, on of our units had to be taken out of service at Bristol rather than working through to Cardiff on Tuesday as "some individual was caught short on the way to the toilet" and the set needed cleaning. There wasn't a replacement available, so it was cancelled, and the return workings were cancelled as far as Bristol as well.

 

[radamfi]

I wonder if the fact that passengers can sometimes see cleaners picking up litter during the journey has changed some people's behaviour (for the worse)?

For example, Virgin seem to excel at cleaning, so much so that I expect to see the cleaner during the trip. In the old days, I would always walk down the aisle to the bin but now I wait for the cleaner.