Fare increases - folk don't like them

[Dave1987]

I wonder if the fact that passengers can sometimes see cleaners picking up litter during the journey has changed some people's behaviour (for the worse)?

For example, Virgin seem to excel at cleaning, so much so that I expect to see the cleaner during the trip. In the old days, I would always walk down the aisle to the bin but now I wait for the cleaner.

Yes virgin are very very good for that. Last time I travelled a chap came down the train 3 times during the journey asking if anyone had any rubbish, then again I don't think I've seen a bin on a pendo except in vestibules but no doubt I just haven't been looking hard enough

 

[455driver]

however your post does seem to highlight the absolute necessity of having toilets on modern trains, including those for suburban services.

It doesnt make any difference if the trains have toilets or not, trust me!

 

[Dave1987]

however your post does seem to highlight the absolute necessity of having toilets on modern trains, including those for suburban services.

Dont think trains are required to have a toilet on board if the journey is less than an hour.

 

[jon0844]

Yes virgin are very very good for that. Last time I travelled a chap came down the train 3 times during the journey asking if anyone had any rubbish, then again I don't think I've seen a bin on a pendo except in vestibules but no doubt I just haven't been looking hard enough

It's worth adding that other TOCs do this too, and not just Intercity services.

FCC have a cleaning team at King's Cross that will go along to collect rubbish when trains have a longer turnaround than just a few minutes. LUL also have crews that clean while the trains are in motion, simply jumping off at a later station.

 

[radamfi]

It may be possible that some people have become more casual about putting their rubbish in the bin because they think the cleaner will do it soon anyway.

 

[Dave1987]

It may be possible that some people have become more casual about putting their rubbish in the bin because they think the cleaner will do it soon anyway.

Indeed that probably is the case but should that kind of behaviour be promoted or frowned upon?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Dont think trains are required to have a toilet on board if the journey is less than an hour.

What about MerseyRail 507s / 508s (which don't have toilets) on Hunts Cross-Southport servcies, which I believe are 61 mins in journey time? Further, I'm certain there are some locals along the West Coastway which use the toliet-less 313s and are well over an hour in time.

 

[Dave1987]

What about MerseyRail 507s / 508s (which don't have toilets) on Hunts Cross-Southport servcies, which I believe are 61 mins in journey time? Further, I'm certain there are some locals along the West Coastway which use the toliet-less 313s and are well over an hour in time.

Sorry not aware of the ins and outs of this just think I'm correct in saying trains on shorts journeys are not required to have a toilet on board.

 

[FGW_DID]

It may be possible that some people have become more casual about putting their rubbish in the bin because they think the cleaner will do it soon anyway.

That will be the "somebody else gets paid/can clean this so I am free from any human responsibility and will leave my half eaten pasty wrapped in this mornings Metro where I want to" attitude.

As for the "I pay £xxxxxx to use this service." people, I pay a large amount of council tax per year, I don't just throw rubbish in the street because someone is paid to collect it!

 

[quarella]

I'm sure they could, but I'm just as sure that the railcard option won't be flashed in neon lights when they turn up at the station to travel.

Many years since I worked in a booking office but we were encouraged to sell Railcards. However many people were convinced we were trying to con them even with the figures written down in front of them showing that the discount it gave even on one trip would more than cover the cost of the railcard.

 

[tbtc]

Dont think trains are required to have a toilet on board if the journey is less than an hour.

I don't think there's any requirements for this - it does get mentioned on here (and elsewhere) but I doubt there's any legislation

 

[Greenback]

Many years since I worked in a booking office but we were encouraged to sell Railcards. However many people were convinced we were trying to con them even with the figures written down in front of them showing that the discount it gave even on one trip would more than cover the cost of the railcard.

Yes, I used to find the same thing back in the day. I thought it just showed how suspicious passengers were of the privatised railway!

I don't think there's any requirements for this - it does get mentioned on here (and elsewhere) but I doubt there's any legislation

I believe it is one of those things that has become an urban myth.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

As you may be aware, in Sheffield we have various bus routes running virtually empty that were "saved" in the October set of service changes because of the huge amount of public support/ signatures etc for them - the same people seem not to be using them though.

As an ex team leader at First's Olive Grove garage in Sheffield you will also know that the people in Sheffield/South Yorkshire are so anti bus due to a number of reasons, The public have fallen in love with the railways again and we need to take every opportunity to get them to use the trains , this could be more trains on mainline services or rural services , they are all important where ever the lines are

 

[Tracky]

What about MerseyRail 507s / 508s (which don't have toilets) on Hunts Cross-Southport servcies, which I believe are 61 mins in journey time? Further, I'm certain there are some locals along the West Coastway which use the toliet-less 313s and are well over an hour in time.

Tis worth commenting that lots of Merseyrail stations have toilets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It may be possible that some people have become more casual about putting their rubbish in the bin because they think the cleaner will do it soon anyway.

I have thought that this dumbing down is at least a partial cause. I do however wonder if some of our passengers live surrounded by their own waste.

I once handed a well dressed mature woman a receipt after she had paid by card. She put it on the seat next to her and then shortly afterwards flicked it onto the floor. I reached down picked it up and said 'I will put that in the bin for you'.

 

[Holly]

... many people were convinced we were trying to con them even with the figures written down in front of them showing that the discount it gave even on one trip would more than cover the cost of the railcard.

Especially among older people a major fear is being treated like a criminal for innocently buying the wrong ticket (including pursuant to bad advice at the ticket office) or travelling on the wrong train.
They want it kept simple, even if it costs more.

 

[tbtc]

As an ex team leader at First's Olive Grove garage in Sheffield you will also know that the people in Sheffield/South Yorkshire are so anti bus due to a number of reasons, The public have fallen in love with the railways again and we need to take every opportunity to get them to use the trains , this could be more trains on mainline services or rural services , they are all important where ever the lines are

Sheffield buses are like national trains - you'll find large numbers of people signing a petition to "save" something (or improve it) yet the same people never seem to use the services in such number, making such polls fairly meaningless to judge passenger numbers by.

 

[341o2]

Lets turn this on its head. Why are people who work expected to cope with wage increases below the cost of living or no increase at all. Bear in mind many people on benefits get other things 'thrown in' such as their rent or Council Tax. Working people have to pay for those too. Why should I have less disposable income or even go into an overdraft just to survive yet those on benefits have the increases more or less covered.

Theres no slur there on the claimant. The problem is with the way the system is structured.

If those on benefits have their rent...erm...guaranteed, why does virtually every private landlord state "no DSS?"

My own case had a nine month struggle to obtain monies to which i am entitled. After a few months, my case has been reassessed, the new assessor has moved the goalposts and decided I have been overpaid.

Consider the self employed, who cannot demand wage rises or have paid sick leave or holidays

 

[Markdvdman]

Sheffield buses are like national trains - you'll find large numbers of people signing a petition to "save" something (or improve it) yet the same people never seem to use the services in such number, making such polls fairly meaningless to judge passenger numbers by.

It is a misnomer as to what you are quoting.

Rail is (Pacers apart) a VASTLY superior form of transport to buses. People want rail for the reason of comfort and speed.

In Merthyr it is slightly different, as the bus competes with rail - and rail is not exactly faster due to the incredible number of stops.

However, due to the rail neutrality, you do not get the issue with miserable bus drivers, and you do not get the Cardiff road bottle necks. We all know about the rail bottle necks which are allegedly meant to be addressed.

Point is - people prefer rail to bus, it is why people want rails reinstated.

I know there are issues with demand, but people want rail, which gets more usage than buses for decent trains. It is simplicity in itself. Pacers apart, rail > bus!

 

[tbtc]

It is a misnomer as to what you are quoting.

Rail is (Pacers apart) a VASTLY superior form of transport to buses. People want rail for the reason of comfort and speed.

In Merthyr it is slightly different, as the bus competes with rail - and rail is not exactly faster due to the incredible number of stops.

However, due to the rail neutrality, you do not get the issue with miserable bus drivers, and you do not get the Cardiff road bottle necks. We all know about the rail bottle necks which are allegedly meant to be addressed.

Point is - people prefer rail to bus, it is why people want rails reinstated.

I know there are issues with demand, but people want rail, which gets more usage than buses for decent trains. It is simplicity in itself. Pacers apart, rail > bus!

I think you've misquoted me here - this was in response to sheff'd victoria's claim that rail services in Lincolnshire should be improved because thousands of people had signed a petition in favour of something - I was pointing out that people will easily sign petitions but that doesn't mean they'll actually use the service (the fact that we had much outrage/ petitions/ press coverage to "save" some bus services in Sheffield and now see those buses running virtually empty was my evidence of this).

Not a "trains are better than buses" argument, a "petitions are meaningless" argument.

 

[455driver]

you do not get the issue with miserable bus drivers,

Because all bus drivers are miserable arent they!:roll:

When I left my bus driving role one of my regular (female) passengers gave me a packet of roses chocolates and a kiss and several others wished me well for the future and said I would be missed, but of course we are all miserable arent we!
This was on normal service bus services but each link of drivers mainly worked on a couple of core routes.

So Markdvdman what job do you do so we can all come round and slag you off!

 

[Oswyntail]

Because all bus drivers are miserable arent they!:roll:
..
So Markdvdman what job do you do so we can all come round and slag you off!

To be fair, he didn't say all bus drivers are miserable.But, because one usually gets on a bus past the driver, coming across a grumpy bus man is more common than coming across a grumpy train driver (not much public contact for them). And, sadly, it is quite common round here - but that might just be Yorkshire!

 

[billio]

To be fair, he didn't say all bus drivers are miserable.But, because one usually gets on a bus past the driver, coming across a grumpy bus man is more common than coming across a grumpy train driver (not much public contact for them). And, sadly, it is quite common round here - but that might just be Yorkshire!

I live in Yorkshire: the drivers on my bus service aren't grumpy.

One pleasant thing about a bus journey is that you can speak to and thank the driver when you get off. It's very hard to do something similar on or at the end of a train journey. That's probably an issue which affects staff morale on the railways.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I live in Yorkshire: the drivers on my bus service aren't grumpy.

One pleasant thing about a bus journey is that you can speak to and thank the driver when you get off. It's very hard to do something similar on or at the end of a train journey. That's probably an issue which affects staff morale on the railways.

One of the things that affects the morale of staff on the buses is the number of people that don't speak to and thank the driver when they get off. You can't even get some of them to ask for their fare...

 

[455driver]

I live in Yorkshire: the drivers on my bus service aren't grumpy.

One pleasant thing about a bus journey is that you can speak to and thank the driver when you get off. It's very hard to do something similar on or at the end of a train journey. That's probably an issue which affects staff morale on the railways.

I used to drive buses for Arriva Yorkshire based at Belle Isle Wakefield!

I drive trains into Waterloo and despite having to walk past all the morning commuters to get to the other end of the train I have been thanked 4 times in 4 years.

 

[AndyLandy]

Rail is (Pacers apart) a VASTLY superior form of transport to buses. People want rail for the reason of comfort and speed.

Even Pacers still have their advantages over actual road buses. For sure, the interior environment is basically just a bus, but you do get the advantages that rail brings (not stuck in traffic jams behind car drivers.) Oh, and not forgetting the loo! Pacers have a toilet, buses don't.

However, due to the rail neutrality, you do not get the issue with miserable bus drivers

I commute to work by bus in Southampton, and the vast majority of the bus drivers are polite and friendly people. It's rare indeed for me to meet a grumpy one. In fact, it's probably been a number of years since I've had any gripe with a driver.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

One of the things that affects the morale of staff on the buses is the number of people that don't speak to and thank the driver when they get off. You can't even get some of them to ask for their fare...

Always puts a smile on my face when someone says...Thankyou
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I used to drive buses for Arriva Yorkshire based at Belle Isle Wakefield!

I drive trains into Waterloo and despite having to walk past all the morning commuters to get to the other end of the train I have been thanked 4 times in 4 years.

Northerners are so much more friendlier

 

[Zerothebrake!]

One pleasant thing about a bus journey is that you can speak to and thank the driver when you get off. It's very hard to do something similar on or at the end of a train journey. That's probably an issue which affects staff morale on the railways.[/QUOTE]

You could always push some money under the door instead.

 

[PR1Berske]

Even Pacers still have their advantages over actual road buses. For sure, the interior environment is basically just a bus, but you do get the advantages that rail brings (not stuck in traffic jams behind car drivers.) Oh, and not forgetting the loo! Pacers have a toilet, buses don't.
.

Oh I don't know, some night buses have toilet facilities......Not designed, like, but they're used all the same.......

 

[AndyLandy]

and thank the driver when you get off.

That's harder on the buses we have, as they have mid-doors for exiting. Reduces dwell times, but means you don't go past the driver on the way out.

Oh I don't know, some night buses have toilet facilities......Not designed, like, but they're used all the same.......

Ahh yes, impromptu facilities. Still a win for the Pacer then, since it at least has a designated area for such activities, even if it's only marginally better than the impromptu ones!

 

[GNER 91128]

Most of the bus drivers Stagecoach Peterborough have are miserable sods it seems, but I say thank you most of the time when I get off, force of habbit I guess, even if I've been waiting 30 mins for a bus that's supposed to be every 10 and then the driver packs it full to uncomfortabel levels.