Fare dodging at Wigan Wallgate

[chuckles1066]

Not even close.....

2009/10 Annual Passenger usage:

Filton - 0.598 million.
Bristol Parkway 2.042 million.

Now these figures are based on ticket sales, so they could be underestimates of the actual footfall. Even with the perceived problem of ticketless travel at Filton Abbey Wood it would need nearly 4000 ticketless journeys a day for Filton to approach the footfall of Bristol PW. Not forgetting that Bristol PW will also have some unrecorded footfall as well.

As an aside, would not many of the staff at MOD Abbey Wood actually hold season tickets?

Oh, and aren't you driving on your commute from this area now? Why not go find a forum to moan about all the uninsured drivers on the roads.

Shall I behave?

Thank you for the stats, most informative.

Can I ask, are they travel from or travel to the stations in question? Or both?

2m per annum from Bristol Parkway is 40k a week, seems very high?

And, yes, I am driving currently; although if the cost of diesel continues to rise then I'll be back on the railways, as I always said I would.

I said from my first post that I'd be objective and I intend to stick to that (even if it annoys some of the irrelevants here).

The problem you have with uninsured drivers (www.askmid.com is your friend if you want to check upon a pikey neighbour) is getting Plod to actually get off of their backsides and do something.

The problem the railways have is that if you successfully pulled all uninsured drivers from the roads, they'd be so clear that the rail network would close down within a year

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The problem you have with uninsured drivers (www.askmid.com is your friend if you want to check upon a pikey neighbour) is getting Plod to actually get off of their backsides and do something.

You do know that checking a cars details other than one registered to you/your employer/your client is a criminal offence?

 

[Greenback]

Hasn't this come up before?

 

[chuckles1066]

You do know that checking a cars details other than one registered to you/your employer/your client is a criminal offence?

<yawn>

Does being an internet cop give you a kick?

Are you British? Yep, guessed so.......protect the scum of society at all costs.

After all, me finding out that Matey-Boy next door is uninsured and might well plough me down and leave me a vegetable without consequences has *got* to be an infringement of his human rights........hasn't it?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

<yawn>

Does being an internet cop give you a kick?

Are you British? Yep, guessed so.......protect the scum of society at all costs.

After all, me finding out that Matey-Boy next door is uninsured and might well plough me down and leave me a vegetable without consequences has *got* to be an infringement of his human rights........hasn't it?

Oh for God's sake, what a stupid thing to reply. ralphchadkirk was pointing out that that practise is illegal, to be honest, at least he posts meaningful contributions.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

After all, me finding out that Matey-Boy next door is uninsured and might well plough me down and leave me a vegetable without consequences has *got* to be an infringement of his human rights........hasn't it?

That could just as well happen with an insured driver. Either way, you'll still be able to claim compensation whether the driver is insured or not - it's a common misconception that you can't. One that seems to be shared by you. Bloody education system!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...., to be honest, at lease he sometimes posts meaningful contribution.

Edited appropriately

 

[chuckles1066]

Oh for God's sake, what a stupid thing to reply. ralphchadkirk was pointing out that that practise is illegal, to be honest, at lease he posts meaningful contribution.

Why don't you state under what Statute it's illegal?

(Hint: actually, it isn't)

And why was my post "stupid"?

Timer has started...........
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Either way, you'll still be able to claim compensation

Congratulations; the Claims Direct mentality that is a cancer eating away at society.

I imagine you're very proud of yourself?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Why don't you state under what Statute it's illegal?

Section 55 Data Protection Act 1998. Look it up.

Hint: as stated on the website, it is. And you even create a contract with the company to say you won't search for other's details.

I am entitled to the insurance information about the vehicle detailed above for one or more of the following reasons: It is either registered/ owned/ insured by me or my employer; I am permitted to drive it; I am an Insurance Broker and acting on behalf of my client.
I understand it is an offence to wrongfully obtain information of this nature without any of the above reasonable causes. If I fail to provide true reasons for acquiring this information I may be committing an offence of unlawfully obtaining data contrary to section 55 of the Data protection Act 1998. I declare that the information provided will not be used for any purposes unrelated to this enquiry.
I confirm that: I have read and understood the data protection declaration, one of the options stated above applies to me and I agree to the terms of use as stated on this website.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Congratulations; the Claims Direct mentality that is a cancer eating away at society.

If you don't want the compensation then why are you worried they are uninsured?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Section 55 Data Protection Act 1998. Look it up.

No need!

55 Unlawful obtaining etc. of personal data.
(1)A person must not knowingly or recklessly, without the consent of the data controller—.
...(a)obtain or disclose personal data or the information contained in personal data, or.
...(b)procure the disclosure to another person of the information contained in personal data..
(2)Subsection (1) does not apply to a person who shows—.
...(a)that the obtaining, disclosing or procuring—.
......(i)was necessary for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime, or.
......(ii)was required or authorised by or under any enactment, by any rule of law or by the order of a court,.
...(b)that he acted in the reasonable belief that he had in law the right to obtain or disclose the data or information or, as the case may be, to procure the disclosure of the information to the other person,.
...(c)that he acted in the reasonable belief that he would have had the consent of the data controller if the data controller had known of the obtaining, disclosing or procuring and the circumstances of it, or.
...(d)that in the particular circumstances the obtaining, disclosing or procuring was justified as being in the public interest..

Seems to me okay to check on that difficult neighbour of yours if you detected a crime and immediately advised the Police, or they were a person holding public office or other public interest.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

No need!
Seems to me okay to check on that difficult neighbour of yours if you detected a crime and immediately advised the Police, or they were a person holding public office or other public interest.

And if you didn't detect a crime - then you have broken the conditions of 55(2 i). It follows that if a crime wasn't detected, then it wasn't in the public interest.

Is there any binding judicial precedent for this?

 

[Flamingo]

2009/10 Annual Passenger usage:

Filton - 0.598 million.
Bristol Parkway 2.042 million.

Now these figures are based on ticket sales, so they could be underestimates of the actual footfall. Even with the perceived problem of ticketless travel at Filton Abbey Wood it would need nearly 4000 ticketless journeys a day for Filton to approach the footfall of Bristol PW. Not forgetting that Bristol PW will also have some unrecorded footfall as well.

Does the figure for BPW include the number that change at it? I get lots who change there, both from South Wales, and going to CNM/GCR off the XX.15 Cardiff's.

Oh, and aren't you driving on your commute from this area now? Why not go find a forum to moan about all the uninsured drivers on the roads.

I believe the phrase you are looking for is "P*** off and annoy somebody else"

 

[142094]

Going back on topic for a change, was at Wallgate yesterday. 3 RPIs standing around checking tickets of people getting off the train but standing around discussing football when I went down onto the platforms. Almost as useless as the ones at Man Vic, who was talking in some sort of foreign language on his phone whilst attempting to check my ticket.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Going back on topic for a change, was at Wallgate yesterday. 3 RPIs standing around checking tickets of people getting off the train but standing around discussing football when I went down onto the platforms. Almost as useless as the ones at Man Vic, who was talking in some sort of foreign language on his phone whilst attempting to check my ticket.

was he Scouse?

 

[strange6]

Going back on topic for a change, was at Wallgate yesterday. 3 RPIs standing around checking tickets of people getting off the train but standing around discussing football when I went down onto the platforms. Almost as useless as the ones at Man Vic, who was talking in some sort of foreign language on his phone whilst attempting to check my ticket.

lol yes, there are usually 3 of them stood at the top of the stairs. Manners wise, they're not usually bad, always thanking you for showing the ticket and one of them even calls me sir sometimes! Must be a rotten job just standing there all day.

 

[142094]

was he Scouse?

He was of Asian appearance, so guessing somewhere like India/Bangladesh. Puts Northern in a very bad light when thousands of passengers are greeted with people such as this every day of the week.

 

[WestCoast]

He was of Asian appearance, so guessing somewhere like India/Bangladesh. Puts Northern in a very bad light when thousands of passengers are greeted with people such as this every day of the week.

They're G4S contractors, you can't expect all that much unfortunately.

 

[142094]

They're G4S contractors, you can't expect all that much unfortunately.

That's the problem. Northern could employ RPIs themselves and do away with the crap contractors, plus could train them better in ticketing. Better image for Northern. The ones they employ at the minute are as much use as a chocolate teapot.

 

[strange6]

He was of Asian appearance, so guessing somewhere like India/Bangladesh. Puts Northern in a very bad light when thousands of passengers are greeted with people such as this every day of the week.

I can feel the heat already!

 

[WestCoast]

That's the problem. Northern could employ RPIs themselves and do away with the crap contractors, plus could train them better in ticketing. Better image for Northern. The ones they employ at the minute are as much use as a chocolate teapot.

I doubt the average member of the public knows or cares about them though - they don't associate on-station "ticket checkers'" with "Northern Rail".

TPE employ their own RPIs and it shows - they always have a good look at my ticket at Warrington Central. G4S, well it's often barely a glance, isn't it?

 

[142094]

I doubt the average member of the public knows or cares about them though - they don't associate on-station "ticket checkers'" with "Northern Rail".

TPE employ their own RPIs and it shows - they always have a good look at my ticket at Warrington Central. G4S, well it's often barely a glance, isn't it?

At station such as Wallgate which is only served by Northern then I'd expect passengers to assume they worked for Northern. In any case it is a bad example for the railway as a whole.

 

[WestCoast]

At station such as Wallgate which is only served by Northern then I'd expect passengers to assume they worked for Northern. In any case it is a bad example for the railway as a whole.

Perhaps yes, although I know many people who are oblivious to the fact that the stations are operated by different TOCs.

Although Wigan is clear cut, places like Preston and Manchester Piccadilly are not.

Man Picc the station is operated by Network Rail, the ticket office is run by Virgin, Northern employ the RPIs to barrier platform 13/14, despite the fact that First TransPennine Express, Arriva Trains Wales and East Midlands Trains as well as Northern all run from those platforms!

I bet the public don't have a clue, in which case G4S reflect badly on everyone.

 

[mullin]

Sorry to bring back a slightly old topic...

My brother had a run in with these guys yesterday. He was making a trip to Windermere and the ticket office was closed first thing in the morning with no sign of the conductor on the train. He got off the train with a tight connection at Wigan and met these folks at the top of the stairs.
Said he needed a ticket from Parbold to Windermere, they then asked him how do to spell both Parbold and Windermere. Good start to begin with. He then showed his railcard and was told it was not valid as it was before 10am and could not use it, he argued that his railcard was valid as his fare exceeded the minimum fare (£28.30 before discount, £18.70 with) and they issued him with a return ticket between both stations for £12. He took it as he couldn't do with the hassle as he had to catch the next train over the road from North Western, showed it to the ticket office at North Western (he didn't want to be caught out with an invalid ticket on Virgin) and they gave him an excess to the correct ticket.... A quick run from the counter to the platform as the train pulled in and then low behold...no ticket checks on board from Wigan to Oxenholme!

 

[WestCoast]

.
Said he needed a ticket from Parbold to Windermere, they then asked him how do to spell both Parbold and Windermere. Good start to begin with. He then showed his railcard and was told it was not valid as it was before 10am and could not use it, he argued that his railcard was valid as his fare exceeded the minimum fare (£28.30 before discount, £18.70 with) and they issued him with a return ticket between both stations for £12. He took it as he couldn't do with the hassle as he had to catch the next train over the road from North Western, showed it to the ticket office at North Western (he didn't want to be caught out with an invalid ticket on Virgin)

G4S lack appropriate training, the training course is far too short I believe. Considering they are going to be dealing with tickets constantly they really should be trained to a higher standard.

The more sensible ones tend not to question tickets they aren't sure on. They know onboard guards and even passengers are likely to have more knowledge about validity than themselves.

and they gave him an excess to the correct ticket.... A quick run from the counter to the platform as the train pulled in and then low behold...no ticket checks on board from Wigan to Oxenholme!

Not an unusual occurrence at all, particularly on Pendolinos. I've told Virgin about the problem, but they are not interested. The attitude on East Coast, East Midlands Trains and First Great Western (who also have short distance passengers on intercity routes) is completely different to Virgin's uncaring stance. People aren't going to complain about it though are they?

 

[323235]

Not an unusual occurrence at all, particularly on Pendolinos. I've told Virgin about the problem, but they are not interested.

Is there a crew change though on VT services at Preston. If so both train managers would surely be busy either side of Preston doing other duties

On Preston/Lancaster terminators they'd surely be doing start of service/end of service preparation.

Also I'm sure Virgin staff have the same problems with there Avantix machines as other companies which prevent them doing checks.

Perhaps FGW and EMT train managers don't have to do as many checks or as much paperwork?

Revenue Protection after all isn't a Guards number one role so surely in many cases there's a understandable reason for them not doing ticket checks which Virgin know is a limitation of the job and short of bringing extra revenue staff onboard trains which would cost them money they can't justify spending, then they have to simply accept there staff can't do everything at once.

 

[WestCoast]

Revenue Protection after all isn't a Guards number one role so surely in many cases there's a understandable reason for them not doing ticket checks which Virgin know is a limitation of the job and short of bringing extra revenue staff onboard trains which would cost them money they can't justify spending, then they have to simply accept there staff can't do everything at once.

No, I'm not blaming the guards at all, a busy pendolino is hectic for anyone to check! Some station-based RPIs (or barriers at Wigan/Warrington) would be fine. If other TOCs can manage it, I am sure Virgin can!

I pay a lot of money for a season when I have to do this route for a week, and don't like to see people not paying fares that's all.

Anyway this discussion/argument has been had before..

 

[175001]

Couldn't he have bought the ticket at office at Parbold? Would has saved him all the hassle.

 

[323235]

Mullin has told us that his brother said it was Closed

 

[175001]

Apologies. So he has. Was gonna say as the staff at Parbold are pretty keen!

 

[mullin]

Yeah, they're a helpful bunch. I gave them a shock a couple of weeks back when buying a New Lane to Chester. He couldn't believe how cheap it was

 

[Statto]

No, I'm not blaming the guards at all, a busy pendolino is hectic for anyone to check! Some station-based RPIs (or barriers at Wigan/Warrington) would be fine. If other TOCs can manage it, I am sure Virgin can!

I pay a lot of money for a season when I have to do this route for a week, and don't like to see people not paying fares that's all.

Anyway this discussion/argument has been had before..

I agree, regular ticket checks between all stations, on all services should be part of the T&C of the franchise.

I was on a VT Liverpool-London last summer & the first ticket check was well South of Stafford