Falsely Accused of Fare Dodging AGAIN

[Choix]

I posted a thread three months ago where I was falsely accused of fare dodging on a train for being in possession of a month's worth of tickets, which was allegedly proof that I had been using the same ticket for a month on a train.

Three months later I have been falsely accused of fare dodging again for just as ridiculous a reason.

After putting my ticket through the barrier, a member of station staff stepped into my path and blocked me from exiting, leaving me trapped between him and the gate, which had now shut behind me.

At this point he accused me of being a fare dodger and told me that he needed to inspect my ticket. After several minutes inspecting a clearly valid ticket, he gave it back to me and began yelling abuse at me as I walked towards my train. Of course, everybody looked at me as though I was the one in the wrong.

Both of these incidents happened with Great Western Railway. While I have complained, I suspect that nothing will be done as it appears to be company policy to accuse passengers of being fare dodgers and to yell abuse at them after being proven wrong.

 

[greyman42]

I posted a thread three months ago where I was falsely accused of fare dodging on a train for being in possession of a month's worth of tickets, which was allegedly proof that I had been using the same ticket for a month on a train.

Three months later I have been falsely accused of fare dodging again for just as ridiculous a reason.

After putting my ticket through the barrier, a member of station staff stepped into my path and blocked me from exiting, leaving me trapped between him and the gate, which had now shut behind me.

At this point he accused me of being a fare dodger and told me that he needed to inspect my ticket. After several minutes inspecting a clearly valid ticket, he gave it back to me and began yelling abuse at me as I walked towards my train. Of course, everybody looked at me as though I was the one in the wrong.

Both of these incidents happened with Great Western Railway. While I have complained, I suspect that nothing will be done as it appears to be company policy to accuse passengers of being fare dodgers and to yell abuse at them after being proven wrong.

What do you mean by "abuse"?

 

[30907]

What do you mean by "abuse"?

And is this at the same station, and/or the same member of staff, as your previous incident?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/falsely-accused-of-fare-dodging.276498/#post-7018734

 

[AlterEgo]

At this point he accused me of being a fare dodger and told me that he needed to inspect my ticket.

What did he actually say? "Fare dodger" is not common parlance on the railway.

After several minutes inspecting a clearly valid ticket, he gave it back to me

What ticket did you use, and what was the issue? Did he suspect reuse?

and began yelling abuse

What was the abuse, and did he really *yell*?

Both of these incidents happened with Great Western Railway.

Was it the same staff member?

 

[gray1404]

I've read both your threads. We really need to know the details of the full details ticket being used (origin, destination, any discounts applied and what day of the week and time of day you're using it) plus full details of the journey being made to be able to help fully.

 

[Snow1964]

After putting my ticket through the barrier, a member of station staff stepped into my path and blocked me from exiting, leaving me trapped between him and the gate, which had now shut behind me.

When you say gate had now shut behind you, do you mean the ticket had opened the gate, you walked through, it then closed.

If so then barrier clearly thought ticket is valid (although that won't check related railcards that need to also be valid for ticket type). Did member of staff check ticket or a railcard.

Really need to know what type of ticket you had, and what railcards (if any)

 

[island]

I've read both your threads. We really need to know the details of the full details ticket being used (origin, destination, any discounts applied and what day of the week and time of day you're using it) plus full details of the journey being made to be able to help fully.

Indeed. As the saying goes, three sides to every story, passenger's side, railway's side, and what really happened.

 

[Choix]

What do you mean by "abuse"?

Unfortunately, forum rules prevent me from posting the words he used. Needlessly to say, it was undoubtedly abuse.

And is this at the same station, and/or the same member of staff, as your previous incident?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/falsely-accused-of-fare-dodging.276498/#post-7018734

Different staff member, different station, completely different journey.

What did he actually say? "Fare dodger" is not common parlance on the railway.


What ticket did you use, and what was the issue? Did he suspect reuse?


What was the abuse, and did he really *yell*?


Was it the same staff member?

He accused me of not having paid for travel by reusing a ticket, which was clearly impossible within the time frame. I could technically have caught the train that had left 10 minutes earlier but, in order to be back at the station, I would have had to have jumped off of it shortly after it departed as it wouldn't have even reached the first stop by the time I was at the station, never mind given me enough time to catch another train back.

The abuse was shouted down the platform as I was walking to the train. I guess he felt embarrassed about being proven wrong.

I've read both your threads. We really need to know the details of the full details ticket being used (origin, destination, any discounts applied and what day of the week and time of day you're using it) plus full details of the journey being made to be able to help fully.

Both tickets were on different routes and are very clearly valid for use on the journey I was taking. In both cases, for me to have been on a route that was not permitted, the train ticket would have to state 'Not valid for use on trains' as it is only possible to take one route via train.

If you still won't accept this, National Rail gives the only possible route with the same ticket price on their website, so it is even clearer that this is the correct route to be taking. Additionally, neither staff member has claimed that I was on board the wrong train.

The issue is with First Great Western staff. I can only assume that it is company policy for them to behave like this as it only happens on their services.

When you say gate had now shut behind you, do you mean the ticket had opened the gate, you walked through, it then closed.

If so then barrier clearly thought ticket is valid (although that won't check related railcards that need to also be valid for ticket type). Did member of staff check ticket or a railcard.

Really need to know what type of ticket you had, and what railcards (if any)

Both ticket and railcard were checked. The guy spent several minutes trying to find some excuse to prevent me from travelling but couldn't come up with anything and let me continue my journey.

There is no doubt over the validity of the ticket.

 

[John R]

as it appears to be company policy to accuse passengers of being fare dodgers and to yell abuse at them after being proven wrong.

I very much doubt that, although as in any customer facing organisation there will be some employees who are at the extreme end of how they actually handle customers.

But I'm not sure what you want from us, apart from the ability to rant about what happened? As noted above, if you want us to provide any insight or assistance then you need to provide much more information regarding your journey, the ticket you held, how you usually use your tickets, and any other relevant information. In particular, you must have asked yourself why you appear to have been singled out, not once but twice (by the same person?). It does seem highly unusual - which makes me think that there is something missing that you haven't told us. (And if there is something missing, and you still don't tell us, then it's all a fairly futile exercise posting here, as we won't be able to help you in any way.)

 

[Haywain]

Indeed. As the saying goes, three sides to every story, passenger's side, railway's side, and what really happened.

And all we appear to be getting here is a fraction of one side.

 

[jon0844]

I am not sure what forum rules prevent you from saying what was said, even if you might have to censor some of the wording.

 

[High Dyke]

I'm sorry to sound harsh on this. What is this forum expected to do? This forum is not an Ombudsman or regulatory body.

 

[pelli]

I posted a thread three months ago where I was falsely accused of fare dodging on a train for being in possession of a month's worth of tickets, which was allegedly proof that I had been using the same ticket for a month on a train.

Three months later I have been falsely accused of fare dodging again for just as ridiculous a reason.

He accused me of not having paid for travel by reusing a ticket, which was clearly impossible within the time frame.

So from what you're saying, on two separate occasions, two different staff members from the same Train Operating Company have accused you of the same specific crime (reusing tickets), despite the tickets you were holding at each time being completely valid. This would suggest that the two accusations might be linked, and two particular possibilties stand out:

1. After the first incident, the staff member has shared a description or photo of you with other staff telling them to be on the lookout for you. This is the "cause" of the second member of staff acting the way they did in the second incident.

2. You look very similar to a person who has legitimately been caught reusing tickets in one or more previous incidents. (That person need not necessarily be someone else, if there's something you're not telling us!) This is the "cause" of both members of staff acting the way they did in both incidents.

If either of these scenarios is true, then it seems you are at risk of encountering more incidents of a similar nature. I'll leave it to other forum members to suggest the best way to resolve this, whether by contacting customer services or being prepared to politely suggest there's a case of mistaken identity next time it happens.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Unfortunately, forum rules prevent me from posting the words he used. Needlessly to say, it was undoubtedly abuse.

Different staff member, different station, completely different journey.

He accused me of not having paid for travel by reusing a ticket, which was clearly impossible within the time frame. I could technically have caught the train that had left 10 minutes earlier but, in order to be back at the station, I would have had to have jumped off of it shortly after it departed as it wouldn't have even reached the first stop by the time I was at the station, never mind given me enough time to catch another train back.

The abuse was shouted down the platform as I was walking to the train. I guess he felt embarrassed about being proven wrong.

Both tickets were on different routes and are very clearly valid for use on the journey I was taking. In both cases, for me to have been on a route that was not permitted, the train ticket would have to state 'Not valid for use on trains' as it is only possible to take one route via train.

If you still won't accept this, National Rail gives the only possible route with the same ticket price on their website, so it is even clearer that this is the correct route to be taking. Additionally, neither staff member has claimed that I was on board the wrong train.

The issue is with First Great Western staff. I can only assume that it is company policy for them to behave like this as it only happens on their services.

Both ticket and railcard were checked. The guy spent several minutes trying to find some excuse to prevent me from travelling but couldn't come up with anything and let me continue my journey.

There is no doubt over the validity of the ticket.

I was just wondering. Would the staff member have to actually look at your ticket to discover it was valid ?.
The barriers are not smart enough to check railcards, or compare to what train you used. For example you could have a ticket not valid on a GWR service but meant for a TfW service (example Cardiff) or even a TfL service (for example at Reading).

When you were initially stopped how did you react ?.

Remember ticket staff have to deal with all sorts of cheating so have to be suspicious. I find once I have quickly and simply supplied what they need to look at they are fine. I do see some fellow passengers getting angry when being checked - remember being checked is a fact of life and the company has a right and a duty to protect fare revenue for us all.

 

[Belperpete]

When you say gate had now shut behind you, do you mean the ticket had opened the gate, you walked through, it then closed.

If so then barrier clearly thought ticket is valid (although that won't check related railcards that need to also be valid for ticket type). Did member of staff check ticket or a railcard.

Just because the barrier didn't reject the ticket doesn't mean it was valid. Some stations have their barriers set up to be more discriminating than others.

Whatever the reason, having a member of staff yelling abuse at someone after letting them on their way is clearly unacceptable. The OP should certainly complain about this, and I would hope he would then share GWR's response on here.

 

[dosxuk]

Unfortunately, forum rules prevent me from posting the words he used. Needlessly to say, it was undoubtedly abuse.

You don't need to use the exact words, but you can censor it appropriately that other members will get the gist of what was being said.

Personally I find it quite strange that you've had the exact same problem with staff acting in a manner that could be career limiting, in two totally different locations and with totally different tickets.

 

[JordR]

Could you tell us exactly what ticket you had? That might make a misunderstanding identifiable.

 

[AlterEgo]

He accused me of not having paid for travel by reusing a ticket, which was clearly impossible within the time frame. I could technically have caught the train that had left 10 minutes earlier but, in order to be back at the station, I would have had to have jumped off of it shortly after it departed as it wouldn't have even reached the first stop by the time I was at the station, never mind given me enough time to catch another train back.

There seems to be missing context here because that, in and of itself, seems very unlikely.

The abuse was shouted down the platform as I was walking to the train. I guess he felt embarrassed about being proven wrong.

There is nothing in the forum rules that prevent you from saying what was said to you. The forum has a filter for profanity anyway.

The issue is with First Great Western staff. I can only assume that it is company policy for them to behave like this as it only happens on their services.

That’s obviously a very daft thing to say and only undermines your account. What’s more likely is one of the two scenarios @pelli mentions.

Is there a reason you haven't complained to GWR? Because in your situation, I would - if I was innocent.

 

[thejuggler]

If as stated there was genuine abuse, which wouldn't have been tolerated if it were the other way around, it is sometimes worthwhile demanding to speak to someone in authority immediately.

 

[gray1404]

Unfortunately, we are unable to comment on the validity of your tickets as you have failed to provide the information on the tickets you were using all the journey being made despite being asked.

 

[John R]

If you still won't accept this,

There is no doubt over the validity of the ticket.

We don't have to accept anything. It's not us that are being inconvenienced, and as you still haven't told us exactly what ticket you hold, and how you are using it, we cannot comment on whether it is a valid ticket, and whether it is being misused. Though given the fact that you appear to be very selective in what you tell us, I'm inclined to think that you are doing something that has raised the suspicions of more than one member of GWR staff at different stations. (Whether such suspicions are unwarranted, we can't tell.) Bit of a coincidence though, isn't it?

 

[Choix]

So from what you're saying, on two separate occasions, two different staff members from the same Train Operating Company have accused you of the same specific crime (reusing tickets), despite the tickets you were holding at each time being completely valid. This would suggest that the two accusations might be linked, and two particular possibilties stand out:

1. After the first incident, the staff member has shared a description or photo of you with other staff telling them to be on the lookout for you. This is the "cause" of the second member of staff acting the way they did in the second incident.

2. You look very similar to a person who has legitimately been caught reusing tickets in one or more previous incidents. (That person need not necessarily be someone else, if there's something you're not telling us!) This is the "cause" of both members of staff acting the way they did in both incidents.

If either of these scenarios is true, then it seems you are at risk of encountering more incidents of a similar nature. I'll leave it to other forum members to suggest the best way to resolve this, whether by contacting customer services or being prepared to politely suggest there's a case of mistaken identity next time it happens.

I am wondering if this is case of mistaken identity.

When you were initially stopped how did you react ?.

Obviously I was not happy with the way he rushed into the front of the barrier to stop me passing through, leaving me trapped between him and a gate. I asked him to move and was then accosted as a fare dodger.

Whatever the reason, having a member of staff yelling abuse at someone after letting them on their way is clearly unacceptable. The OP should certainly complain about this, and I would hope he would then share GWR's response on here.

I have filed a complaint. However, the response will be that they will look into it but cannot share the outcome due to GDPR. It will not be possible for me to determine whether anything was done or not, but I suspect the latter.

Could you tell us exactly what ticket you had? That might make a misunderstanding identifiable.

Nobody is disputing the validity of the ticket on the route other than a few people in this thread. If you can provide evidence of all of the following I will accept that I had an invalid ticket:

1. ROCs sell tickets that are 'Not valid on trains' and require passengers to purchase train tickets to use other means of transport to reach their destination just because a rail station is in the vicinity.

2. Money is being spent on railway stations that nobody is allowed to use and every time I have used these stations, actors are at the station pretending to be passengers and staff and this facade continues throughout the journey, with me none the wiser.

3. National Rail has been playing a practical joke for decades and are pretending that journeys can be taken on their website that can't.

4. To pick an arbitrary route that would be a similar scenario, where there is only one possible route: Shoeburyness to Southend Central. Please provide an explanation as to why getting on a train at Shoeburyness and getting off at Southend Central wouldn't be valid as you would be required to find another route, despite no other route existing.

Is there a reason you haven't complained to GWR? Because in your situation, I would - if I was innocent.

I have complained.

Unfortunately, we are unable to comment on the validity of your tickets as you have failed to provide the information on the tickets you were using all the journey being made despite being asked.

I am not seeking clarification on the validity of a ticket that was undisputedly valid. Some people sadly seem to be unable to accept that anybody working for an ROC could possibly do anything wrong.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think we're going to leave this here. The OP is not able to provide the information that we need to be able to assist so it's probably best to bring this to a close now.