EXTREMELY scaled back NPR alternatives

[Halish Railway]

Northern Powerhouse Rail is in a state of limbo between 'going ahead in full', i.e. a new Leeds to Manchester via Bradford 125mph line and the scaled back Marsden to Manchester Piccadilly route. I know that repeatedly scaling back projects is unpopular, but there are many alternatives to the scaled back new line to Marsden that would deliver significant benefits.

1. Build the Manchester Piccadilly HS2 station as a through station, with tunnels connecting HS2 to the Calder Valley line to serve Bradford (which would need to be electrified) and the Miles Platting to Stalybridge route.

or

2. Build the Manchester Piccadilly HS2 station as a through station and continue on to terminate at an underground Manchester Victoria station to provide an interchange with TPE's Huddersfield line services, Calder Valley line services and HS2 services.

With both of these ideas, the Ordsall chord would be repurposed as a line for local services which would also serve Salford Crescent and Deansgate. Also, I don't think that the Huddersfield line should be used for Birmingham services due to the performance risk they present, as well as the fact that there are interventions that could take place on the existing Birmingham to Yorkshire and North East route that could significantly reduce journey times to be on par with the idea of a Newcastle to Birmingham via Huddersfield service as mentioned in the IRP.

 

[HSTEd]

How does Manchester Piccadilly being a through station achieve anything like as a new line to Marsden?

Also, I can't see how Birmingham to Leeds via Nottingham could ever compete with the IRP solution, even before considering the line to Marsden.

You'd have to build most of the old HS2 Eastern leg proposal to manage that...

 

[Halifaxlad]

Having only just read the opening line I am confident it is never likely to be 'going ahead in full' that's 46 billion I believe!

2. Build the Manchester Piccadilly HS2 station as a through station and continue on to terminate at an underground Manchester Victoria station to provide an interchange with TPE's Huddersfield line services, Calder Valley line services and HS2 services.

Since Manchester Piccadilly is already oriented towards Salford Central, how about terminating below there instead ?

 

[Bald Rick]

Building Man Picc as a through station would almost cost more than the tunnel from Ardwick to Marsden. Which do you think would be best for passengers?

 

[Chester1]

Piccadilly to Guide Bridge to Marsden would be easiest part to scale back. The old track bed for two separate tracks. If extra space is needed for better alignments then Ardwick could be closed, ending its useless service. Ashburys and Gorton could be replaced by a station on the Hope Valley Line near Gorton Lane (also replacing Belle Vue). If further savings were necessary then move Guide Bridge 300-400m east to make space for four tracks and then use the existing line from Guide Bridge to Marsden, adding a couple of passing loops.

 

[Purple Orange]

An extremely scaled back version of NPR is to only connect the junction at Ardwick to the existing line via Guide Bridge, complete Trans Pennine Route Upgrade and to not do anything else. As TRU is set to enable 4 fast, 2 semi-fast and 2 stoppers between Manchester & Leeds, the end result could be:

Fasts:

• 2 x Curzon Street - Piccadilly - Leeds
• 2 x Liverpool - Victoria - Leeds - Newcastle

Semi-Fasts:

• 2 x North Wales - Victoria - Leeds - Hull
  • I‘ve called out North Wales, but this could start elsewhere

Stoppers:

• 2 x Huddersfield - Leeds
• 2 x Huddersfield - Victoria - Airport via Ordsall Chord.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't close Ardwick. It'll likely be a Manchester city centre station within 10 years or so as it keeps expanding. Just needs to tick over for now.

On the wider subject, I think the Fiddlers' Ferry line has a massive case, because the Liverpool to Manchester lines have very poor local services due to having to squeeze the expresses in.

 

[MattRat]

There is no 'cheap' solution. Everything will end up being expensive, because rail projects in the North have been put off for so long. Unless of course rail passenger numbers dropped drastically and everyone drove instead, but that in my opinion would be a massive transport regression.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Building Man Picc as a through station would almost cost more than the tunnel from Ardwick to Marsden. Which do you think would be best for passengers?

That certainly depends on how many underground platforms it has. The estimated 8bn figure was for having 6 platforms all capable of terminating 400m long HS2 services and being able to cross over to any platform from either end.

How many underground platforms does Manchester need anyway ?

On the wider subject, I think the Fiddlers' Ferry line has a massive case, because the Liverpool to Manchester lines have very poor local services due to having to squeeze the expresses in.

I agree but there are better ways of doing it! Most of the stations are West of Newton-le-willows apart from Eccles and Patricroft, you could achieve the same thing if you put a chord in adjacent to the M62 so that service could head via Warrington Central instead!