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Extra Merseyrail services from May

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northwichcat

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Local media reports are saying that Chester-Liverpool Merseyrail services will become every 15 minutes from May, so it looks like they will take 508s from the South East after all after initial suggestions they would cost to much to update.

Slightly OT there's also the possibly of Bendy Buses banned by Boris being taken up by Arriva Merseyside.
 
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ukrob

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Local media reports are saying that Chester-Liverpool Merseyrail services will become every 15 minutes from May, so it looks like they will take 508s from the South East after all after initial suggestions they would cost to much to update.

Slightly OT there's also the possibly of Bendy Buses banned by Boris being taken up by Arriva Merseyside.

IIRC, the original plan was a digram reshuffle along with missing out a stop between Hooton and Chester (the stop being missed out alternating with each service), along with sustained 75mph running on this stretch.
 

First class

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Local media reports are saying that Chester-Liverpool Merseyrail services will become every 15 minutes from May, so it looks like they will take 508s from the South East after all after initial suggestions they would cost to much to update.

Slightly OT there's also the possibly of Bendy Buses banned by Boris being taken up by Arriva Merseyside.

Firstly, I am really struggling to find any 'local' news suggesting this- unless you mean that Merseyrail are saying it is an aspiration.

Secondly, no extra units are required, although as previously posted, if this was to occur, then two trains an hour would not call at Bache or Capenhurst.

Finally, before the increase can happen, line speed needs to be raised between Hooton and Chester, and an additional platform at Chester needs to be electrified to ensure a robust and reliable service.

You have probably read/heard that it is one of Merseyrail's aspirations- although I can almost guarantee that this timetable change will not be happening in May. The internal vacancy list recently took a load of guards on at Birkenhead, but only to fill existing gaps there, not to expand. For this to work, additional guards would need to be recruited, this process from advertising to them passing out would go well beyond the May mark.

As for the "spare" 508s, I'm sure that Southern are now having something to do with them.
 

herdster

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With regards to recruiting extra guards , I see merseyrail are advertising for guards with a deadline of 8/2/10 , so only a week to get applications in and 13 week training course so won't be far off the mark of May deadline
 

Pumbaa

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Slightly OT there's also the possibly of Bendy Buses banned by Boris being taken up by Arriva Merseyside.

Heard this too. To replace the currently ageing fleet of old double deckers that flip between the 80/86/699 routes.

NB I don't know aught about buses!
 

fgwrich

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Slightly OT there's also the possibly of Bendy Buses banned by Boris being taken up by Arriva Merseyside.

Again off topic, but the Ex London Bendy Bus moove wouldnt supprise me, Go Ahead have brought aload down to Bournemouth to run on the Univercity services.
 

Multiple Unit

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MR Rejected thr ex Silverlink 508 as they needed considrable ammount of work on them with the relabilty of MRs 507/8 units they would probably need more units to run a 15minute service as they don't have enough servicable at present for 6 car peak hour services.
 

robert2000

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15 minute service from chester would be great.

i'd say only 5 more units are needed to provide this
 

Multiple Unit

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Magic them up out of fresh air!

There are ex Silver Link units stored at Eastleigh plus as Said Merseyrail have not got enogh Servicable Stock to create the 15 min service for Chester.

Some units are satbled at Southport all day and only do peak services as six car set due to reliability issues.
 

tbtc

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All depends on whether the increased Chester service is two new trains per hour from Liverpool or just diverting some of the Ellesmere trains
 

royaloak

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There are ex Silver Link units stored at Eastleigh plus as Said Merseyrail have not got enogh Servicable Stock to create the 15 min service for Chester.

Some units are satbled at Southport all day and only do peak services as six car set due to reliability issues.

Didn't the 508s at Eastleigh go up to Mersyrail and then come back down because they need too much work doing to them? All the 313s are going to FCC or Southern?
As for the ones stabling all day, why run a nearly empty train during the day when there is no call for it, a lot of stock only gets used during the peaks!
 

ukrob

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The 508s only got as far as Warrington Arpley.

First Class, also wasn't part of the original proposal to turn the Ellesmere Post services into a shuttle to Hooton to free up a unit?
 

First class

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Merseyrail Recruitment (Guard) said:
Further information
We are currently recruiting for positions to become available during the course of this year.

As for Ellesmere Port, the idea of the shuttle was mooted, and was generally thought to be a workable solution to release a unit. Some opposition from Cheshire County Council appeared who praised the prospect of additional services to Chester, but warned that Ellesmere Port is under continued development, was near Cheshire Oaks, and that in terms of investment from the rail industry, Ellesmere Port should not be forgotten.

I personally believe that there is good market potential for services from Hooton-Warrington Bank Quay via Helsby. A Hooton-Ellesmere Port shuttle should at least run as far as Helsby as it used to. This either requires Merseyrail to use a DMU, or electrify beyond Ellesmere Port. The Stanlow refinery no longer poses any risks to electrification since all the sidings and storage has been removed near the rails. Indeed, Steam traction is even permitted. Merseytravel have the extension up to Helsby included as part of their Local Transport Plan which is suppose to see fruition by 2019, (conveniently the date the 507s/508s are supposed to be replaced).

The 508s aren't at Eastleigh as far as I know, they were dragged back South from Warrington, but I'm sure I heard they were being moved to Telford Freight Centre for storage.
 

northwichcat

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Quoted directly from the Merseyside RUS:

It is recommended that
the frequency of services between Chester
and Liverpool is increased from two to four
per hour in the inter-peak, thereby matching
the high peak frequency and providing a
quarter-hourly Chester – Liverpool service
between 07:00 and 19:00, and six trains per
hour for all stations between Hooton and
Birkenhead Central (inclusive). During the
inter-peak every second service would not call
between Chester and Hooton in the direction
of Liverpool, with the other two services not
calling between Hooton and Chester in the
direction of Chester. This would reduce the
return journey time by around three minutes
thereby providing an improved performance
buffer for services. The frequency at Bache
and Capenhurst would remain half hourly, and
all am peak arrivals in Liverpool and pm peak
departures from Liverpool would have the
same stopping pattern as currently. This would
also improve connections with services from
North Wales into Chester.

The scheme is expected to generate around
190,000 additional passengers per annum,
and only a relatively moderate investment
of public funding would be needed as all the
rolling stock can be resourced from spare units
that are already used to operate the additional
services in the peak. Overall the scheme is
likely to offer high value for money indicated by
a BCR of 2.5.

As an increment to this option it is
recommended that the line speed between
Bache and Hooton is raised from 60mph to
75mph. It is anticipated that this could be
done almost entirely through planned track
renewals due to be completed in 2010/11;
however it is recommended that a small
scheme is developed to optimise the scope of
the infrastructure work and fund any resultant
small cost increases. This would improve
the turnaround time of inter-peak services
to around 8½ to 9 minutes and provide
a performance buffer for peak services.
Alternatively, Merseyrail could choose to use
the reduced journey time
to increase the
service frequency at Bache and Capenhurst, if
it is perceived to offer better value for money.
It is anticipated that the longer turnaround
times generated by the improved service
frequency and line speed upgrade will increase
punctuality to the level of the other Merseyrail
service groups. However, in the longer term
an additional electrified platform at Chester
station may produce a significant further
performance benefit, particularly as more
peak services operate in six-car formation
resulting in an increasing number of coupling
and uncoupling manoeuvres at the station.
It is therefore recommended that a review of
the infrastructure at Chester is undertaken
once the frequency increase and line speed
improvements have been implemented.

Analysis suggests that the additional two
services per hour through the Wirral Line
loop will not be particularly detrimental to
train punctuality. However, any performance
risk could be mitigated by replacing the
current half hourly inter-peak Ellesmere Port
– Chester services with a quarter hourly
Ellesmere Port – Hooton shuttle,
with a fiveminute
connection time with the quarter hourly
Chester – Liverpool services. This option is not
recommended at this stage as the value for
money is inferior to the previous scheme.
Options to increase the frequency of Chester
– Liverpool services and significantly reduce
the journey time by either not calling at
stations between Hooton and Birkenhead
Central, or using additional infrastructure
between Hooton and Rock Ferry have also
been assessed. However, these are not
recommended because it is not possible to
achieve an even service interval with a mixture
of stopping and semi-fast services, so the
benefit of improved journey times would be
partially offset by the disbenefit from losing
an even quarter hour frequency. Furthermore,
the level of benefit generated is not sufficient
 

Multiple Unit

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The 508s only got as far as Warrington Arpley.

First Class, also wasn't part of the original proposal to turn the Ellesmere Post services into a shuttle to Hooton to free up a unit?

I would have thought that too there have been talks for Northern to Run Between Hooton- Helsby & Ellesmere Prt True or No I don't know.

On the subject of Chester. Someone mentioned an alternative route so you could do CTR-Shtoon-Bidston a perfectly valid route as tick says RTE Birkenhead so you are still Going through Birkenhead ie Birknehead North, Park.
 

First class

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I would have thought that too there have been talks for Northern to Run Between Hooton- Helsby & Ellesmere Prt True or No I don't know.

On the subject of Chester. Someone mentioned an alternative route so you could do CTR-Shtoon-Bidston a perfectly valid route as tick says RTE Birkenhead so you are still Going through Birkenhead ie Birknehead North, Park.

No the valid routes Liverpool-Chester are:

Map CH - via Hooton
Map CL + ML - via Runcorn
Map CP - via Hooton and Birkenhead
Map ML - via Hooton

You can't go via Shotton.
 

northwichcat

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I would have thought that too there have been talks for Northern to Run Between Hooton- Helsby & Ellesmere Prt True or No I don't know.

Northern wouldn't have to be involved. Merseyrail could use one 507 or 508 to run a Ellesmere Port-Hooton shuttle. Hooton-Helsby would happen if third rail was extended and then Helsby-Ellesmere Port would go to Merseyrail, rather than the other way round.
 

robert2000

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I think MR should do an action plan of extending the 3rd rail lines.

1. Ellesmere Port - Helsby
2. Bidston - Wrexham
3. Kirkby - Wigan Wallgate
4. Southport - Wigan Wallgate
5. Ormskirk - Preston

6. re instate burscough curves as a main priority.

Lets have 2018 as a completion date to go in line with.

Liverpool/Manchester/Preston/Blackpool electrification, and the Manchester Metro Extension.
 
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robert2000

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Ok, Which one would be the priority. apart from burscough curves.

Ormskirk to preston, but re doubling of sections may be required.
 

merlodlliw

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I think MR should do an action plan of extending the 3rd rail lines.

1. Ellesmere Port - Helsby
2. Bidston - Wrexham
3. Kirkby - Wigan Wallgate
4. Southport - Wigan Wallgate
5. Ormskirk - Preston

6. re instate burscough curves as a main priority.

Lets have 2018 as a completion date to go in line with.

Liverpool/Manchester/Preston/Blackpool electrification, and the Manchester Metro Extension.

Number one on your list Robert was stropped going 3rd rail years ago, due to
the giant refinery at Stanlow next to the line, risk of 3rd rail flashovers,when the line was energised to the Port, the blocks were put on going past stanlow to Helsby, mores the pity. If I recall it was all to do with vapour
and what if a major leak occured.
 

xtradj

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its 2 x to E port and 2 x to Chester... 15min intervals between them both

for eg 00 15 30 and 45

so now im assuming Chester will be 00 15 30 and 45

and e port 7/8 and 37/38mins past... i.e. 6 trains an hour, 4 to chester and 2 to the port?
 

daikilo

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Bidston - Wrexham would be a lot of money on what it just an hourly service

And electrifying Rock Ferry to Chester was a lot of money for an hourly service and now the discussion is whether to go to 4 trains/hour!

Surely, the issue is the added value of direct service for each station on the line. What about e.g. a 15 minute electric service from say Neston or Hawarden to the Liverpool loop and a half-hourly/hourly from there to Wrexham.

And I am still in favour of reopening West Kirby to Hooton, but possibly with a hybrid service e.g. some West Kirby to Hooton or v.v. and some just West Kirby to Calday and v.v or Hooton to Neston and v.v.

I might even propose some Elesmere Port to Neston or West Kirby.
 

robert2000

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the liverpool loop line will get overcrowded. can't they build a second tunnel.
dont forget: 4tph from west kirby, 4tph from new brighton, 4tph from chester, 2 tph from e'port. so that is a total of 14 trains per hour going through the liverpool loop line. its gonna be tight.
 

ukrob

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the liverpool loop line will get overcrowded. can't they build a second tunnel.
dont forget: 4tph from west kirby, 4tph from new brighton, 4tph from chester, 2 tph from e'port. so that is a total of 14 trains per hour going through the liverpool loop line. its gonna be tight.

No it isn't. It was signalled with a two minute headway - that is a maximum of 30 per hour.

14 trains per hour is less than one every four minutes.

But is not relevant anyway - as already said, part of the original proposal was to have the Ellesmere port as a shuttle to and from Hooton.
 

daikilo

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No it isn't. It was signalled with a two minute headway - that is a maximum of 30 per hour.

14 trains per hour is less than one every four minutes.

But is not relevant anyway - as already said, part of the original proposal was to have the Ellesmere port as a shuttle to and from Hooton.

Great, we have a plan and a logic, Merseyrail, up to you now..!
 
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