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Expansions for Scotland's rail network proposed
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I'm not sure why you're puzzled. They announced when EDI gateway opened that the add-on fare for the tram to the airport would be £4, as opposed to the normal rate of £5. I don't think there's a bus alternative from Gateway. Nor does the standard-fare bus to the airport (35) call at Edinburgh park.
Although I suppose you could argue that there should be a flat rate to all EDI stations, to which the £4 could be added.
Although I suppose you could argue that there should be a flat rate to all EDI stations, to which the £4 could be added.
Highland37
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One thing I would definitely like to see is a station at Braehead in Glasgow, using the existing line that comes pretty close to the shopping centre. Extending it by a few hundred metres would take it almost to the door but cause issues as it would go across the car park.
Also, I haven't considered the capacity issues out of Central.
Also, I haven't considered the capacity issues out of Central.
The bigger problem with it in a larger network POV is the fact that you'd have a single-lead junction on a very busy section of track, I'd think.
How about Braehead (Renfrew) to 'new St Enoch' via the City Union Line?
Why not add the fare on from the cheapest of the three locations to change at? And why charge £4 one way and £4 the other? How is £8 good value for a return from Edinburgh Gateway to Edinburgh Airport?
Aside from the indoor skiing, Braehead is just a big shopping centre that has nothing more than you'd find in the city centre, so I'm not hugely sure where the attraction would be in a dedicated rail link? If you're going to use that line, much better to serve Renfrew.
Because if you walked up and bought a ticket at the stop it would cost you £5.
The airline bus is just as expensive. Standard fares apply up to Ingliston Park and Ride.
Its not good value but its cheaper than and Airport Return on the trams which is £8.50 when brought separately from a train ticket.
Highland37
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The reasons why people go there are irrelevant. The fact is lots of people go there and mostly by car.
edwin_m
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Presumably the reason a lot of people choose to go shopping at Braehead is because it's easy to get to by car and either driving is more convenient from wherever they live or they plan to buy lots of large things that they can't carry home on the train. People who don't have these reasons probably go on the train to shop in the city centre instead. So unless Braehead is a lot more attractive shopping-wise than the city centre, creating a rail link there might not attract very many people out of their cars.
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The reasons people go there are not irrelevant. It's actually quite important in working how to best to serve a location. Of course people largely go there by car. It's an out-of-town shopping centre situated on the M8, that's exactly how it was designed to work. It takes people (predominantly from the West) off the M8 early and encourages them to spend their money there rather than continuing to the City Centre. FWIW, Braehead does have excellent bus links too.
The problem with a rail link from Glasgow to Braehead is that it simply moves people between two locations with a very similar collection of things. The only thing at Braehead that isn't in Glasgow (that I can think of) is an indoor ski slope. For just about everything else, the city centre offers the same and more. Shopping, restaurants, bars... Glasgow City Centre is one of the best places in the UK for these activities.
Using that existing line, there would be only one station in Scotland where you would get to Braehead without a change in Central Glasgow; Cardonald. So I'm struggling to understand why anyone would use the rail link to go to Braehead. They'll either drive themselves there, or if they take the train they need not go any further than the city centre. I'm really struggling to see who would use such a line. With Braehead being the only location served, there's not really any other reason to use the line (and I highly doubt that the owners of Braehead will want to see their parking spaces used as a Park-and-Ride facility).
I've always advocated a "true" Crossrail for Glasgow. Take a line from Paisley to serve Glasgow Airport, Renfrew, Braehead, South Glasgow Hospital, Govan and into the City Centre on a new low level line (with onward connections to the North). Expensive, but I think it would work quite nicely. You could also divert some Inverclyde trains this way to free up capacity in Glasgow (although in my head you would probably omit Paisley - a not insignificant location). Braehead would be an ideal stopping point on such a service - it would be one of many locations en route (so the line would not be dependent on just one attraction), it would serve a much wider catchment area than your proposal, and crucially not take up valuable space in Central HL.
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Railsigns
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With the existing track layout, trains from Glasgow Central to Braehead wouldn't be able to call at Cardonald.
Why not? The old branch is immediately west of Cardonald. (Or is this down to the actual proximity being a problem).
It's a crime that when Braehead and the riverside apartments were being planned that a route to Renfrew wasn't kept clear with a view to getting the town on the rail network with a stop at Braehead.
Ah, so literally it would be a shuttle between two stations. Even less beneficial. (Looking at Google Maps, I'm sure you actually could make a link that allows trains to call at Cardonald, but could the cost be justified - both financial and the potential reduction on capacity for services through Paisley? I suspect not).
Railsigns
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To gain access to the branch from the east, trains must run through Cardonald station on the Up Ayr line (the middle line), which doesn't have a platform.
Presumably the installation of the extra infrastructure allowing trains to cross from the Up Ayr line is not exactly insurmountable?
Google maps shows that there is already the facility to allow traffic to switch from the other line to the middle line.
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Highland37
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I did wonder if a triangle formation could be provided whereby trains leave Central, arrive at Braehead, then depart on a new connection line re-joining the mainline heading west.
Railsigns
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Trains can already cross from the Up Ayr line to the branch. What's needed is a new crossover west of Cardonald station to allow trains to cross from the Down Ayr to the Up Ayr, or relocation of the existing crossover at Helen Street, so that trains can call at the Down platform before crossing over to the branch. However, if this is so straightforward, one has to wonder why the crossover wasn't put there in the first place.
Anyway, I was only highlighting a limitation of the existing layout in my earlier post. I never said change was impossible.
Chance to look at plans for second platform at Dunbar Railway Station
http://www.eastlothiancourier.com/n...look_at_plans_for_second_platform_at_station/
http://www.eastlothiancourier.com/n...look_at_plans_for_second_platform_at_station/
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I presume it would consist of converting the existing (unused?) siding into a loop?
Railsigns
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No; it's just a new platform alongside the existing Down line.
ian1944
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This, and the above statement "south of the railway line and beside Salisbury Walk", describe a station with two platforms an enormous distance apart. No doubt cheaper than reconstructing the previous second platform and doubling the loop off the through line, but a long walk over the footbridge (fitted with lifts?) between new platform and ticket office.
What is the reason for the second platform, given that it doesn't seem to appear in the wishlist of Rail Action Group East Scotland? Would all westbound stoppers use it, or would the current platform continue to be bidirectional with the new one used only when two trains call at the same time?
Highland37
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Going back to the Braehead idea. I was there yesterday with my partner and step daughter. We went on bikes and it was a pleasant route.
I had a quick look at the end of the current line. A 200 metre extension would take you to the door of the shopping centre and about 800 metres (I estimate) to a site with a new station between Xcape (the ski slope (largest in UK and busy)) and between the main shopping centre.
I often run youth trips to Glasgow and it would be *much* easier getting there by train from Central as opposed to the bus.
I am convinced that there would be a significant shift and advantage by providing a station here. That could be as part of a wider or future Renfrew scheme or standalone. There is also opportunity to provide a new curve back onto the mainline, heading west, so that a semi-through service could be provided. It would certainly be busier than Cardonald I think.
I had a quick look at the end of the current line. A 200 metre extension would take you to the door of the shopping centre and about 800 metres (I estimate) to a site with a new station between Xcape (the ski slope (largest in UK and busy)) and between the main shopping centre.
I often run youth trips to Glasgow and it would be *much* easier getting there by train from Central as opposed to the bus.
I am convinced that there would be a significant shift and advantage by providing a station here. That could be as part of a wider or future Renfrew scheme or standalone. There is also opportunity to provide a new curve back onto the mainline, heading west, so that a semi-through service could be provided. It would certainly be busier than Cardonald I think.
Mordac
Established Member
surely the whole point is to eliminate trains crossing lines on the flat.
A 200m extension would be pointless, and the challenges of crossing the busy road and disrupting Braehead's car park would make it more costly and difficult. If you're going to do it, just build the station where it is and provide a covered walkway to the shopping centre. (I'm assuming that you aren't looking at extending to Renfrew - as this would require an extension anyway, it makes sense then to have the station closer to the shopping centre).
I still strongly disagree with you that there's potential for this. I will reiterate - aside from a big ski slope (I don't care how busy it is, it's still just one thing) there is nothing in Braehead that you can't get in the city centre. So why would people go into the city, and then get another train out? They won't. They'll just stay in the city. People who want to go to XScape for the skiing will go there anyway, either by car or by bus.
I'm not sure what a "semi-through service" is, but are you seriously suggesting taking Ayrshire and Inverclyde trains down to Braehead, then reversing and heading back onto the mainline?!? (Apologies if I've misunderstood that). Or do you mean running trains Central - Braehead - Renfrew - Inverclyde; much more sensible, but you still have the inevitable problem of capacity in Central HL.
A link would be helpful, or some indication of where the quote comes from.
ian1944
Member
The present arrangement at Dunbar sees down stoppers crossing the up line twice. A few miles down the line, rather more trains from N Berwick all cross the up line once. Is it really worth what the second platform and ancillary works will cost, just for that purpose? Somehow, I doubt that Drem is destined for a flyover.
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