Excess tickets are probably one of the least understood elements of railway ticketing but however in my opinion a great benefit to the travelling public in as much as they take into consideration what the passenger has already paid and can also facilitate "circular" journeys where the passenger can knock off two lines for the price of one return so to speak.
As a rail employee (revenue) you would think that I wound know all about excess tickets however our training in this regard in my opinion is rather sketchy. One example will suffice thus:-
When I was on my commercial training course we were told that before excessing a discounted standard (eg a saver return) ticket to first class (in one direction only) we first had to excess the whole ticket to a standard open return and then excess to first in the one direction required - in effect charging the full difference between the saver and std open and then half the difference between the first and std open
Simple you might think but at that time there were NO internal std open rtns within Scotland. When this was pointed out to the training officer he stated that you could not excess a saver direct to first because " the customer may also wish to upgrade to first on his return journey also". When this was pointed out to the training officer that in that case the passenger has in fact paid the full first class return fare (albeit in three installments) we were again told not to excess savers direct to first class but as "the customer is probably on expenses then just issue a first class single and tell the customer to apply for a refund on the unused portion of the saver rtn"
The above problem no longer exists since the fare simplifications and introduction of SOR to internal Scottish flows. However the general advice given is to sell a new single or return as appropriate to cover the new part of the journey that the passenger requires.
Now my question and main point of this thread is this. With regard to overdistance and change of route excesses we have been taught always to excess like for like eg SVR to SVR or SOR to SOR but how do you excess where the fare types are different on different routes.
eg A passenger wishes to travel from Dunbar (DUN) to Berwick (BWK) and is able to travel out on a direct train however on the return due to the infrequent nature of direct services has to travel via Edinburgh (EDB). The passenger is travelling off-peak (whatever that means these days) in both directions. Now the direct return fare from DUN to BWK is priced as a standard day return (SDR) but the any permitted (valid via EDB) is priced as an off peak period rtn (SVR) or an anytime rtn (SOR). What is the correct excess procedure if any? Can you excess a SDR to a SVR or does it have to be to the SOR as in this case there is no alternative route any permitted SDR?
Most booking clerks in my experience would avoid an excess and just issue an off peak any permitted route as does the Internet (Eastcoast & Scotrail websites) when specifying out direct but return via EDB, in fact it took a lot of faffing about before it even offered the existence of a direct SDR.
It can also be quite confusing when two or more companies have differing views on what constitutes peak or off-peak. Can you excess from an anytime ticket to an off peak?
eg A passenger holds a SOR from Glasgow Central (GLC) to Leeds (LDS) route Appleby priced at £45:40 - no other return fares available on that route and wishes to return via the East Coast Main line via York, Newcastle, & Edinburgh - two walk up return fares quoted for this any permitted route an off peak (SVR) at £81:70 and an anytime (SOR) at £183.00. Now from what I've been taught you would have to excess from the SOR to the SOR resulting in an excess charge of £68.80 for a one way alternative route excess - surely this can't be correct as in my opinion excessing up to the any permitted SVR fare would be more appropriate as (and I could be wrong here) I think the SVR is virtually unrestricted time wise anyway. This would give an excess fare of £18:15
I'm probably tying myself in knots here but I do think excesses are good in theory as they bring a bit of flexibility into railway ticketing.
Thanks.
As a rail employee (revenue) you would think that I wound know all about excess tickets however our training in this regard in my opinion is rather sketchy. One example will suffice thus:-
When I was on my commercial training course we were told that before excessing a discounted standard (eg a saver return) ticket to first class (in one direction only) we first had to excess the whole ticket to a standard open return and then excess to first in the one direction required - in effect charging the full difference between the saver and std open and then half the difference between the first and std open
Simple you might think but at that time there were NO internal std open rtns within Scotland. When this was pointed out to the training officer he stated that you could not excess a saver direct to first because " the customer may also wish to upgrade to first on his return journey also". When this was pointed out to the training officer that in that case the passenger has in fact paid the full first class return fare (albeit in three installments) we were again told not to excess savers direct to first class but as "the customer is probably on expenses then just issue a first class single and tell the customer to apply for a refund on the unused portion of the saver rtn"
The above problem no longer exists since the fare simplifications and introduction of SOR to internal Scottish flows. However the general advice given is to sell a new single or return as appropriate to cover the new part of the journey that the passenger requires.
Now my question and main point of this thread is this. With regard to overdistance and change of route excesses we have been taught always to excess like for like eg SVR to SVR or SOR to SOR but how do you excess where the fare types are different on different routes.
eg A passenger wishes to travel from Dunbar (DUN) to Berwick (BWK) and is able to travel out on a direct train however on the return due to the infrequent nature of direct services has to travel via Edinburgh (EDB). The passenger is travelling off-peak (whatever that means these days) in both directions. Now the direct return fare from DUN to BWK is priced as a standard day return (SDR) but the any permitted (valid via EDB) is priced as an off peak period rtn (SVR) or an anytime rtn (SOR). What is the correct excess procedure if any? Can you excess a SDR to a SVR or does it have to be to the SOR as in this case there is no alternative route any permitted SDR?
Most booking clerks in my experience would avoid an excess and just issue an off peak any permitted route as does the Internet (Eastcoast & Scotrail websites) when specifying out direct but return via EDB, in fact it took a lot of faffing about before it even offered the existence of a direct SDR.
It can also be quite confusing when two or more companies have differing views on what constitutes peak or off-peak. Can you excess from an anytime ticket to an off peak?
eg A passenger holds a SOR from Glasgow Central (GLC) to Leeds (LDS) route Appleby priced at £45:40 - no other return fares available on that route and wishes to return via the East Coast Main line via York, Newcastle, & Edinburgh - two walk up return fares quoted for this any permitted route an off peak (SVR) at £81:70 and an anytime (SOR) at £183.00. Now from what I've been taught you would have to excess from the SOR to the SOR resulting in an excess charge of £68.80 for a one way alternative route excess - surely this can't be correct as in my opinion excessing up to the any permitted SVR fare would be more appropriate as (and I could be wrong here) I think the SVR is virtually unrestricted time wise anyway. This would give an excess fare of £18:15
I'm probably tying myself in knots here but I do think excesses are good in theory as they bring a bit of flexibility into railway ticketing.
Thanks.
