Ex Virgin Trains Voyagers, where could they go next?

[Energy]

Deleted

 

[greatvoyager]

Don't think so, but Avanti said they would be operating routes which terminate at: Birmingham, Liverpool and Blackpool.


Depends on how long the lease is, they don't seem to have another customer other than XC so I doubt it would be hard to get an extra year if needed.


Tilt is heavy, the XC 221s only have them disabled, not removed. The heavy bodyshell doesn't help.

I thought the tilting equiptment was replaced with fixed bars.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought the tilting equiptment was replaced with fixed bars.

On XC's it is, but not on the ex-VTWC sets.

 

[greatvoyager]

On XC's it is, but not on the ex-VTWC sets.

Thanks clarifying.

 

[greatvoyager]

On XC's it is, but not on the ex-VTWC sets.

And I guess that adds maintenance costs.

 

[greatvoyager]

I'd like to see the seats replaced. They are a bit dated.

 

[greatvoyager]

How long does it take for 2 units to couple or uncouple when working the North Wales service?

 

[The Planner]

How long does it take for 2 units to couple or uncouple when working the North Wales service?

You have to allow 7 minutes normally unless otherwise specified.

 

[greatvoyager]

You have to allow 7 minutes normally unless otherwise specified.

Thank you.

 

[greatvoyager]

How long will it be before their future is confirmed?

 

[ainsworth74]

How long will it be before their future is confirmed?

I would imagine that that will be determined by a combination of whether the Virgin Trains open access operation is approved and when the XC franchise is awarded. If VT get their OAO approved and they can agree terms with the ROSCO then that will give some of them a home. If they do not then it might be when the XC franchise is awarded that they gain a home. Possibly they might move to XC absent a franchise change but considering the current franchise expires in October 2020 which is well before they'll come free from AWC you'd figure that that will form part of the next franchise.

 

[greatvoyager]

I would imagine that that will be determined by a combination of whether the Virgin Trains open access operation is approved and when the XC franchise is awarded. If VT get their OAO approved and they can agree terms with the ROSCO then that will give some of them a home. If they do not then it might be when the XC franchise is awarded that they gain a home. Possibly they might move to XC absent a franchise change but considering the current franchise expires in October 2020 which is well before they'll come free from AWC you'd figure that that will form part of the next franchise.

I agree, but hope XC get them.

 

[greatvoyager]

As one XC unit currently has a vehicle removed due to damage, the extra 221s can't arrive soon enough.

 

[greatvoyager]

I hope we see more efficient usage.

 

[DavidGrain]

Could someone please confirm that they are compatible and can be coupled together. I am assuming that they are because they were all originally Virgin.

 

[greatvoyager]

Could someone please confirm that they are compatible and can be coupled together. I am assuming that they are because they were all originally Virgin.

Yes they are compatible with XC units, the only real technical difference is the Virgin ones still tilt, but that can be switched off.

 

[greatvoyager]

I hope they don't end up stored out of use.

 

[coradiafan2000]

I hope they don't end up stored out of use.

Now that would be a colossal waste. Even those who hate Voyagers on long distance services must at least think that they could replace older DMUs in other areas.

 

[DavidGrain]

XC themselves need the Voyagers for the Nottingham-Birmingham-Cardiff services. The use of 2 and 3 car DMUs on those services is ridiculous.

 

[greatvoyager]

Now that would be a colossal waste. Even those who hate Voyagers on long distance services must at least think that they could replace older DMUs in other areas.

I agree, but it depends on XC.

 

[greatvoyager]

XC themselves need the Voyagers for the Nottingham-Birmingham-Cardiff services. The use of 2 and 3 car DMUs on those services is ridiculous.

I would say that the long distance XC routes are in more need, but if the Ex EMR 222s transfer too, 170s could be replaced.

 

[JonathanH]

XC themselves need the Voyagers for the Nottingham-Birmingham-Cardiff services. The use of 2 and 3 car DMUs on those services is ridiculous.

Nice idea but it critically depends on whether using Voyagers on those services is going to bring in enough revenue to match the increased costs.

For the time being, increasing the capacity of 170518-170523 means fewer 2-car 170s operating.

 

[greatvoyager]

Nice idea but it critically depends on whether using Voyagers on those services is going to bring in enough revenue to match the increased costs.

For the time being, increasing the capacity of 170518-170523 means fewer 2-car 170s operating.

Agree, costs are a big issue.

 

[greatvoyager]

If these trains do end up scrapped, I hope XC can get some vehicles to make the 4x 4-car 221s up to 5-car.

 

[GoneSouth]

XC themselves need the Voyagers for the Nottingham-Birmingham-Cardiff services. The use of 2 and 3 car DMUs on those services is ridiculous.

I’d agree with this. If XC get them they could as a minimum switch the 4 car 220 trains onto this route so there never again has to be the ridiculous situation of a 4 car running from Scotland or Manchester to the west of England.

 

[greatvoyager]

I’d agree with this. If XC get them they could as a minimum switch the 4 car 220 trains onto this route so there never again has to be the ridiculous situation of a 4 car running from Scotland or Manchester to the west of England.

Agreed 5-car trains are just bearable, but 4-car trains on long routes are not long enough.

 

[james_the_xv]

While the most likely destination is XC (Doubt the DfT will allow the use of Voyagers for Virgin's OAO paths as it's all under wires) I'd love to see them on the chiltern mainline (they're already cleared for most the route iirc).

 

[greatvoyager]

While the most likely destination is XC (Doubt the DfT will allow the use of Voyagers for Virgin's OAO paths as it's all under wires) I'd love to see them on the chiltern mainline (they're already cleared for most the route iirc).

That's another shout, and I think Virgin will probably use new EMUs. That said, XC desperately need capacity and the 221s are the easiest solution as they won't require driver training.

 

[tbtc]

XC themselves need the Voyagers for the Nottingham-Birmingham-Cardiff services. The use of 2 and 3 car DMUs on those services is ridiculous.

A four coach Voyager isn't going to be an improvement on a three coach 170 even if you spend money converting the First Class to Standard (given the amount of space taken up by "crumple zones" and the poor internal layout of Voyagers) - there's not much need for 125mph on the ex-Central Trains diagrams either - plus much slower unloading etc due to the Voyager doors.

It keeps getting suggested as a solution, and no doubt it will still be suggested in future but it seems to offer little benefit to passengers (unless you are throwing five coach Voyagers at the route, but there are plenty of Voyager diagrams that only get four coaches at the moment, so it seems that they should be the ones that get any "spare" five coach Voyagers, instead of putting them on slower routes.

The 170s will be improved with the extension of some to three coaches after EMR take on the various 170/171s, and I think that's enough of a solution for now.

 

[greatvoyager]

A four coach Voyager isn't going to be an improvement on a three coach 170 even if you spend money converting the First Class to Standard (given the amount of space taken up by "crumple zones" and the poor internal layout of Voyagers) - there's not much need for 125mph on the ex-Central Trains diagrams either - plus much slower unloading etc due to the Voyager doors.

It keeps getting suggested as a solution, and no doubt it will still be suggested in future but it seems to offer little benefit to passengers (unless you are throwing five coach Voyagers at the route, but there are plenty of Voyager diagrams that only get four coaches at the moment, so it seems that they should be the ones that get any "spare" five coach Voyagers, instead of putting them on slower routes.

The 170s will be improved with the extension of some to three coaches after EMR take on the various 170/171s, and I think that's enough of a solution for now.

I agree doubling units on the long routes should be a priority.