Ex Virgin Trains Voyagers, where could they go next?

[coradiafan2000]

I know TfW have all their orders in for the various different new trains, but the Voyagers would have been a good addition on Llandudno to Manchester's or Holyhead to Cardiff's.

Oh I would have loved having them on the Marches route. I'd certainly prefer them to whatever CAF have lined up to replace my beloved 175s.

 

[DavidGrain]

I know there are people on this forum who do not like Voyagers, but I think without the expensive tilting mechanism, they would have made a suitable standard train for use on longer distance trains all over the country but only Virgin ordered them.

 

[The Ham]

I know there are people on this forum who do not like Voyagers, but I think without the expensive tilting mechanism, they would have made a suitable standard train for use on longer distance trains all over the country but only Virgin ordered them.

Even with tilt just having more of them and them being longer would have made a big difference.

 

[matacaster]

Even with tilt just having more of them and them being longer would have made a big difference.

Is there any country which is particularly prone to its populus having narrow shoulders?

 

[greatvoyager]

I know there are people on this forum who do not like Voyagers, but I think without the expensive tilting mechanism, they would have made a suitable standard train for use on longer distance trains all over the country but only Virgin ordered them.

True, somewhat of a missed opportunity. Then again, with surplus units there is an opportunity to add capacity to XC. I hope it is taken up, even if for the short term.

 

[The Ham]

Is there any country which is particularly prone to its populus having narrow shoulders?

I didn't say that it would make them great, I said that it would make a big difference.

Anyway with more capacity you're going to be less likely to have to sit next to someone else, so even then it would benefit passenger comfort.

 

[greatvoyager]

If they are used to lengthen other services, then I would great to see a few empty seats and no one having to stand.

 

[greatvoyager]

I know there are people on this forum who do not like Voyagers, but I think without the expensive tilting mechanism, they would have made a suitable standard train for use on longer distance trains all over the country but only Virgin ordered them.

I do wonder about what might have been. Going forward, if they don't work with another operator on WCML, the 221s will probably have the tilt removed.

 

[greatvoyager]

Even with tilt just having more of them and them being longer would have made a big difference.

It would've been good.

 

[greatvoyager]

Oh I would have loved having them on the Marches route. I'd certainly prefer them to whatever CAF have lined up to replace my beloved 175s.

They would have an advantage of being a proven design regarding reliabilty.

 

[greatvoyager]

I wonder what condition these units will be in when Avanti is finished with them.

 

[greatvoyager]

Also, if they go to XC perhaps the services can be run more efficiently.

 

[sprinterguy]

Also, if they go to XC perhaps the services can be run more efficiently.

"More efficiently" in what regard, out of curiosity? As Crosscountry's stock utilisation is about as efficient as it can get.

 

[greatvoyager]

"More efficiently" in what regard, out of curiosity? As Crosscountry's stock utilisation is about as efficient as it can get.

My fault, was meant to say "more effectively" and was referring to additional capacity created by more double formation running.

 

[sprinterguy]

My fault, was meant to say "more effectively" and was referring to additional capacity created by more double formation running.

Ah cheers, I wondered if that might be it and fully agree.

 

[greatvoyager]

Ah cheers, I wondered if that might be it and fully agree.

Anything to help capacity on XC would be welcome, and the remaining Super Voyager units joining would be a logical and easy way to achieve it.

 

[sprinterguy]

Anything to help capacity on XC would be welcome, and the remaining Super Voyager units joining would be a logical and easy way to achieve it.

Would certainly seem the most straightforward option to give Crosscountry the boost in capacity it desperately needs.

 

[Snow1964]

I've always wondered how much time they would save on a route like Portsmouth-Cardiff that snakes around estuaries, river valleys etc if enhanced tilt speeds were authorised.

Only downside is loads of DMUs would be released, but then its not as if places like Wales are desperate for diesel trains

 

[greatvoyager]

I've always wondered how much time they would save on a route like Portsmouth-Cardiff that snakes around estuaries, river valleys etc if enhanced tilt speeds were authorised.

Only downside is loads of DMUs would be released, but then its not as if places like Wales are desperate for diesel trains

Fair point.

 

[greatvoyager]

Would certainly seem the most straightforward option to give Crosscountry the boost in capacity it desperately needs.

Absolutely, its logical.

 

[sprinterguy]

I've always wondered how much time they would save on a route like Portsmouth-Cardiff that snakes around estuaries, river valleys etc if enhanced tilt speeds were authorised.

I wouldn't be surprised if they actually lost time due to being unable to make use of Sprinter differential speed limits on regional routes thanks to their heavy axle loadings.

Only downside is loads of DMUs would be released, but then its not as if places like Wales are desperate for diesel trains

There's certainly plenty of areas of the country crying out for additional provincial diesel units; the East Midlands and Northern franchise areas being key amongst them, as well as Wales in the short term until the new trains begin to enter service. Not sure who could best make use of a displaced fleet of Network Turbos, however (Though GWR's 158s would have a more universal application).

 

[greatvoyager]

I wouldn't be surprised if they actually lost time due to being unable to make use of Sprinter differential speed limits on regional routes thanks to their heavy axle loadings.

There's certainly plenty of areas of the country crying out for additional provincial diesel units; the East Midlands and Northern franchise areas being key amongst them, as well as Wales in the short term until the new trains begin to enter service. Not sure who could best make use of a displaced fleet of Network Turbos, however (Though GWR's 158s would have a more universal application).

Definitely, the 22x probably wouldn't offer much improvement on those services.

 

[greatvoyager]

Are the west coast units any more or less reliable than the crosscountry ones?

 

[sprinterguy]

Are the west coast units any more or less reliable than the crosscountry ones?

Not sure of any more recent figures, but in the four years to October 2018 Virgin's 221s were generally less reliable than Crosscountry's: Probably a consequence of still being tilt enabled, though the gap between the two fleets has been closing over that time.

 

[krus_aragon]

Are the west coast units any more or less reliable than the crosscountry ones?

I don't know if there's any difference in the figures, bearing in mind they all came from the same manufacturer, and are maintained at the same place.

The one clear difference I can think of is that XC's fleet have had their tilt mechanism disabled, so they can't suffer any tilt faults. XC would obviously do the same for any units transferred from West Coast, so that difference would evaporate very quickly.

 

[greatvoyager]

Not sure of any more recent figures, but in the four years to October 2018 Virgin's 221s were generally less reliable than Crosscountry's: Probably a consequence of still being tilt enabled, though the gap between the two fleets has been closing over that time.

Ah okay.

 

[greatvoyager]

I don't know if there's any difference in the figures, bearing in mind they all came from the same manufacturer, and are maintained at the same place.

The one clear difference I can think of is that XC's fleet have had their tilt mechanism disabled, so they can't suffer any tilt faults. XC would obviously do the same for any units transferred from West Coast, so that difference would evaporate very quickly.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[sprinterguy]

The one clear difference I can think of is that XC's fleet have had their tilt mechanism disabled, so they can't suffer any tilt faults.

Because of the way the train management system is set up, and common to non-tilt 220s as well as tilting 221s, they actually can to an extent, strangely. Though of course there's nothing to physically go wrong so I agree that not having tilt capability reduces the complexity of the units.

 

[greatvoyager]

Because of the way the train management system is set up, and common to non-tilt 220s as well as tilting 221s, they actually can! Though of course there's nothing to physically go wrong.

Never knew that.

 

[greatvoyager]

I don't know if there's any difference in the figures, bearing in mind they all came from the same manufacturer, and are maintained at the same place.

The one clear difference I can think of is that XC's fleet have had their tilt mechanism disabled, so they can't suffer any tilt faults. XC would obviously do the same for any units transferred from West Coast, so that difference would evaporate very quickly.

Although they are maintained by the same company and location, you could argue the West Coast ones certainly look in better condition than those on CrossCountry.