Everything wrong with Pacers

[Johncleesefan]

We have a lot to thank these old donkey buses for and I will miss them. I don't care what stock I travel in so long as there's room for me and preferably not roasting hot.

 

[northwichcat]

True theres more room for affordable growth in the North, but even lengthening services will require platform extensions in many places and any investment at all seems to be hard to come by North of Watford!

For platform lengthening to use longer formations of Pacers a decision would have to made whether it's worth investing millions in to a temporary train lengthening solution as the Pacers won't last forever and have their own unique length.
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and preferably not roasting hot.

So in summer you don't want a type of train where the waste engine heat goes in to the saloon then.

 

[me123]

Everything wrong with Pacers

Yep, that sounds about right, everything is wrong with Pacers. They should have been retired a long time ago, and it's frankly a scandal that they continue to exist.

 

[yorksrob]

Have Angel Trains had second thoughts?

For platform lengthening to use longer formations of Pacers a decision would have to made whether it's worth investing millions in to a temporary train lengthening solution as the Pacers won't last forever and have their own unique length.
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So in summer you don't want a type of train where the waste engine heat goes in to the saloon then.

I'm just thinking of my experience on the Whitby branch earlier this year where the extra 142 made a big difference (and the platforms weren't a problem).

 

[J-2739]

Yep, that sounds about right, everything is wrong with Pacers. They should have been retired a long time ago, and it's frankly a scandal that they continue to exist.

Love or hate, you've got to admit that Pacers have done the job of taking many commuters to their destinations and in that way are not different to any other train.

 

[jshaw]

Now don't you go hating my beloved 142009...!!!

I seriously do not get why people hate pacers as they are great little units. You treat a pacer like a lady, and she'll always bring you home

For me Merseyrail ones are the best. 144s are the worse- a lot more noisy.

 

[sprinterguy]

I have only been on a 142 so can only base my judgement on that, I've been on two pacers today, one of the bus seated ones and one of the more.normal 3+2 ones. I hated the bus seated one.

There's more bus seated units than Merseyrail (assuming that's what you mean by "3+2") ones, even just in the North West area of Northern.

Other than being extremely dated, I personally find the bus seated units preferable to the Merseyrail 3+2 seated ones, as the former seem to have greater leg room and more under seat space to place bags or stretch your legs out due to the minimal superstructure of the bus benches. The ex-Merseyrail units are just abominably cramped. Also the undivided nature of the bus benches means that a high density 3+2 layout can easily become a more spacious 2+1 variant on quieter services or peak time ones that empty out en route.
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Don't know why some say the 143s/144s are better. Aside from the guarantee of no bench seating, I haven't noticed any difference whatsoever.

To me they seem more solidly built, with slightly better sound insulation (in contrast to jshaws' opinion above) and, yes admittedly, better seating than many of the 142s.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

To me they seem more solidly built, with slightly better sound insulation (in contrast to jshaws' opinion above) and, yes admittedly, better seating than many of the 142s.

Yeah, I do find 144s to be of slightly better seating, though I often can not fit in and sit at the front or back for the leg room.

Regardless, though, pacers are like Wayne Rooney - looks rubbish, but gets the job done

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Love or hate, you've got to admit that Pacers have done the job of taking many commuters to their destinations and in that way are not different to any other train.

I am sure that comment would pass muster in many of the Third World countries.
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A nice idea, but given loadings into our larger towns and cities that rule would ensure that Pacers will be around forever!

This is one reason why the numerically greater Class 142 units have had no reprieve by Angel Trains who actually own the damn things and any amount of pleading to the otherwise on this website for their retention will have absolutely no effect whatsoever on Angel Trains.

 

[dgl]

I was wondering how much the people of the north would pay to have a small section of line constructed ~2 miles stick a pacer at each end, fitted with remote controls and with just enough fuel in it to make it about 1 mile and you can guess what I want to happen next!

 

[northwichcat]

I was wondering how much the people of the north would pay to have a small section of line constructed ~2 miles stick a pacer at each end, fitted with remote controls and with just enough fuel in it to make it about 1 mile and you can guess what I want to happen next!

Jeremy Clarkson might.

 

[MonsooN]

Weren't the Pacers only ever meant to be a cheap stop-gap until newer trains could be acquired?

If that is the case, isn't it the fault of successive governments to procure appropriate replacements and shouldn't everyone's anger be directed at them?

 

[physics34]

they are just embarrassing.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

they are just embarrassing.

Such a detailed and well rounded statement...

Pray tell, what is the reasoning behind it?

 

[AM9]

they are just embarrassing.

Who do they embarass?

 

[J-2739]

Who do they embarass?

The face of Britain, I guess?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

they are just embarrassing.

Who do they embarass?

The face of Britain, I guess?

I remember hosting a French exchange student back in 1996. A trip to the Barnsley Metrodome involved a ride from Huddersfield on a 144 back when they still had bus benches. The French contingent thought the train was ridiculous and hilarious, and ancient. When told it was younger than they were, they didn't believe it.

 

[stuart100100]

I used to love bouncing along the Ormskirk to Preston line on a 142 when I commuted along there A few years ago, until I got stuck in the toilet (door was stiff I slammed it shut and couldn't open it again). Had to bang and bang on the door above the engine noise until another passenger heard me and shoulder barged the door open. Never used the toilets on one since

 

[Welly]

It's a pity that Snailwell's Train Crematorium is no longer there - the Pacers are perfect fodder for it!

I do agree that the National Collection should claim an example each of the 142, 143 and 144 then stuff and mount them on top of some peak in the Pennines as a warning.

 

[class26]

I used to love bouncing along the Ormskirk to Preston line on a 142 when I commuted along there A few years ago, until I got stuck in the toilet (door was stiff I slammed it shut and couldn't open it again). Had to bang and bang on the door above the engine noise until another passenger heard me and shoulder barged the door open. Never used the toilets on one since

Then you should have pointed out that many French rural route where Pacers MIGHT have saved the day have been closed down or have minimal service. Maybe better a Pacer than nothing ?

 

[PacerTrain142]

As you might guess by my username and photo they are one of my favourite trains..

There's nothing wrong with Pacers.

It's all hype by the media and politicians to get rid of them just because of this stupid "disability discrimination act" which comes into effect in 2020 which basically says they can't run because they have a step entrance. Well I say bollocks to that! If you're in a wheelchair you still need a ramp to board other trains so what gives??

One of the biggest problems with the pacer has been the bouncing over joined track however on many routes the track has been improved leading to a much better ride.

People tend to pick on the Pacer because it is one of the cheapest, oldest running stock on the network.

But in reality it's about the same standard as a Class 150. Same speed, same acceleration, both screech when stopping at stations and when going round bends.

If you're going to pick on Pacers then pick on the 150's as well.

The Class 142's vary are all different. All have different personalities and some are a lot better than others. People go on one of the "bad" ones on a poorly maintained route and then stick thier nose up at the rest of them.

They can be bad in the Autumn when leaves cause wheelslip which is a big problem for Pacers. It causes big problems with acceleration and braking, with the train struggling to get going and the deafening screeching as the driver attempts to stop at the station. But most of the time they're fine.

Sure the bus seats on many units are very dated and those ones could do with a refurb..

I do wish so many people would stop picking on Pacers, sure they might not be the best trains in the world but they do thier job well providing a service for the North. Yes it may be unfair that the South always gets brand spanking new super fast air conditioned emu's and the North gets the cast-offs but thats the way it is and probably the way it always with be I'm afraid.

 

[transmanche]

It's all hype by the media and politicians to get rid of them just because of this stupid "disability discrimination act" which comes into effect in 2020 which basically says they can't run because they have a step entrance. Well I say bollocks to that! If you're in a wheelchair you still need a ramp to board other trains so what gives??

Accessibility is not just about wheelchair users. Clearly, you are extremely ignorant and I hope that you don't require assistance getting around at some future point in your life.

The relevant rules are PRM-TSI, where PRM stands for Persons of Reduced Mobility - this covers everything from the use of contrasting colours on toilet flush buttons to how much force is needed, with one hand, to stow a nappy changing table.

 

[Harbornite]

There's nothing wrong with Pacers.

There is.

It's all hype by the media and politicians to get rid of them just because of this stupid "disability discrimination act" which comes into effect in 2020 which basically says they can't run because they have a step entrance. Well I say bollocks to that! If you're in a wheelchair you still need a ramp to board other trains so what gives??

Bullcrap isn't it, why should we bother making train travel more accessible for the disabled? :roll:

On a serious note, your complaint is stupid and the legislation regards DDA- compliant toilets, which are lacking in all the 142s and 143s and all but one of the 144s.

But in reality it's about the same standard as a Class 150. Same speed, same acceleration, both screech when stopping at stations and when going round bends. If you're going to pick on Pacers then pick on the 150's as well.

150s are pretty basic but at least they have bogies.

I do wish so many people would stop picking on Pacers, sure they might not be the best trains in the world but they do their job well providing a service for the North. Yes it may be unfair that the South always gets brand spanking new super fast air conditioned emu's and the North gets the cast-offs but thats the way it is and probably the way it always with be I'm afraid.

Try telling that to the good people of South Devon and South Wales! People can pick on Pacers (especially the 142s) as much as they want because they are crap trains. Good riddance.

By the way, aren't you aware of the recent orders for new DMUs and EMUs from CAF for Northern services and the orders for CAF LHCS and Hitachi bi modes for TPE?

 

[sciisfun]

Try telling that to the good people of South Devon and South Wales!

Speak for yourself! as a person (good may be overselling myself ) from southish Devon, I frequently use them, they offer a higher capacity and more frequent trains. show me a way Exmouth could get 2tph without them, most of the key stations along the line get 2 tph in each direction, which is a great advantage! (my local doesn't but that's a political decision) they will be a loss in my opinion, and I hope that the service doesn't get reduced or reverted to a single unit as a result of their retirement!

 

[physics34]

Who do they embarass?

a bus body on train wheels. Embarrassing

 

[Haydn1971]

I've not got a problem with Pacers as such, but I don't really think they should form the backbone of intercity stopper services - Sheffield-Leeds, Sheffield-Huddersfield and Sheffield-Manchester and I really don't think use of old bus seats from the 1970s has a place in modern transport. I'd be happy to see them retained (with a refurb) on short haul inner city services, but that's all.

 

[Parallel]

In response to the capacity - often it's how they're being run. Had a single 143 on the 15:27 out of Exeter to Barnstaple earlier today. Was full from Exeter Central and rammed from St David's, then they ran a 'relief coach' but in getting some passengers back off the train, it then delayed it. If GWR had another spare Pacer, this would have sorted the overcrowding.

I've not been on a Northern 144 but my favourite Pacers to travel on are GWR's 143s because they are clean and you can tell they are well looked after at Exeter. Some of ATW's Pacers are grubby to say the least, and the dark green inside doesn't help. Only used one Northern Rail Pacer - A 142 with bus seats from Blackpool South to Preston. My back didn't thank me for it.

 

[J-2739]

In response to the capacity - often it's how they're being run. Had a single 143 on the 15:27 out of Exeter to Barnstaple earlier today. Was full from Exeter Central and rammed from St David's, then they ran a 'relief coach' but in getting some passengers back off the train, it then delayed it. If GWR had another spare Pacer, this would have sorted the overcrowding.

I've not been on a Northern 144 but my favourite Pacers to travel on are GWR's 143s because they are clean and you can tell they are well looked after at Exeter. Some of ATW's Pacers are grubby to say the least, and the dark green inside doesn't help. Only used one Northern Rail Pacer - A 142 with bus seats from Blackpool South to Preston. My back didn't thank me for it.

144s are basically 143s but some have a third car bogged in.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Maybe better a Pacer than nothing ?

For how many years would you have held that point to be true?

 

[AM9]

a bus body on train wheels. Embarrassing

I said who do they embarrass? - you, the drivers, the passengers?