Evergreen 3 Phase 1

[Railcar B]

Went down to Princes Risborough this morning hoping to see the new through road in use. All three Loco-hauled trains went through the up platform loop(obviously 1H08 has to), so no joy there!

I guess we'll have to wait till next week to see regular use of the through road; nevertheless the rails looked pretty shiny this morning, suggesting more use than just 2 trains on Tuesday morning!

If I've read the new timetable correctly, I think the new 06.19 BMS - MYB is due to overtake 1H08 at Risborough, or is that just wishful thinking?

 

[swt_passenger]

If I've read the new timetable correctly, I think the new 06.19 BMS - MYB is due to overtake 1H08 at Risborough, or is that just wishful thinking?

Is that the 0653 from Banbury, that is at a stand at Princes Risborough at 0728? It seems to arrive at MYB 3 mins before the 0619.

Both trains are shown in the 'Chiltern' timetable, the 'Mainline' timetable only shows the 0619...

 

[Railcar B]

You're right - it is wishful thinking!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Today 1H33 (10.55 BMS - MYB) passed Risborough on the through line about 10 minutes late.

 

[TDK]

You're right - it is wishful thinking!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Today 1H33 (10.55 BMS - MYB) passed Risborough on the through line about 10 minutes late.

That was due to a points problem at Moor Street and the set had to be turned at Snow Hill

 

[Chafford1]

Photos of the new arrangements at Gerrards Cross, courtesy of Guy Gorton:

http://www.meadwaypark.co.uk/ChilternNew/index.html

 

[oversteer]

So, it's not been the best of weeks for Chiltern, judging by the media ... Quite a few signalling issues and some are even asserting that services south of Banbury have been neglected with the aim of getting more passengers on the Birm-London route.

Expected teething problems or have they been a bit too ambitious with the timetable?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

A lot of it has been teething trouble. There have been a few points failures on the new infrastructure, a few signalling problems too. Then there was the freight train on fire at Warwick yesterday which decimated the service for a few hours.
Things will settle down, I'm sure. There will be some tweaking of the timetable as the months pass by and everything is still kinda in flux until the Oxford branch opens for business.

From a personal point of view, I have had more complements from passengers this week than at any other point during my time at Chiltern, and I have been here since before Evergreen 1.

 

[swt_passenger]

They are getting serious grief from the main stations south of Princes Risborough, such as High Wycombe and Gerrrards Cross - complaints galore apparently, about the major reduction in the number of peak departures.

I expect this is because after years of timing their commute to use a fast train that is making its last stop en route to Marylebone, they are finding that the only trains are now semi fast or stopper - and they become full and standing after a few more stations.

 

[cle]

They will need to have more fast trains for London commuters - which is still their bread and butter and they'd be silly to forget it.

Will Oxford trains be in existing paths or new ones? These will cover High Wycombe, but even the smallest stations used to have one or two fast trains, has this changed?

 

[swt_passenger]

They will need to have more fast trains for London commuters - which is still their bread and butter and they'd be silly to forget it.

Will Oxford trains be in existing paths or new ones? These will cover High Wycombe, but even the smallest stations used to have one or two fast trains, has this changed?

The original EG3 track access application (73rd supplementary IIRC) included both a phase 1 timetable (the current situation), and a future phase 2 TT which showed that the Oxford trains were to be either diversions of existing services terminating at for example Bicester North or Banbury, or extensions of other services terminating south of Bicester, but there was no extra frequency to/from Marylebone itself.

It is highly probable that removal of fast train calls is causing the complaints - the online NRTT still includes before and after 'dated sections' which should allow a comparison, but I haven't studied it line by line...

 

[oversteer]

Counting trains arriving MYB before 0845 (realistic for rush hour commuters)
GER Pre TT: 13 trains, avg. 30mins
GER Post TT: 15 trains, avg. 28mins

BCF Pre TT: 13 trains, avg. 36mins
BCF Post TT: 13 trains, avg. 33mins

So unless the trains are massively shorter (I suspect the 6-car 172 provided a big increase in peak capacity before the timetable changed) I can't see, other than these teething signal/track issues, why there is a problem

 

[The Planner]

It is highly likely that there will be a re-shuffle in Dec 2012 once LM are fully aware of what the 172 can and allow them to do timetable wise.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Counting trains arriving MYB before 0845 (realistic for rush hour commuters)
GER Pre TT: 13 trains, avg. 30mins
GER Post TT: 15 trains, avg. 28mins

BCF Pre TT: 13 trains, avg. 36mins
BCF Post TT: 13 trains, avg. 33mins

So unless the trains are massively shorter (I suspect the 6-car 172 provided a big increase in peak capacity before the timetable changed) I can't see, other than these teething signal/track issues, why there is a problem

I think it remains to be seen whether people are getting a worse service, or they just don't like the changes simply because they are changes. I suspect there is a little of both, but I do wonder how many people perceive that there new train is slower than before because it has an extra stop when it is actually the same speed and faster. I have lost count of the number of times where passengers at Wycombe have told me they would rather wait for a non stop train despite the fact that a semi fast will get them to London earlier. Is it just a perception issue?

 

[cle]

I think so. Even though for years there was basically nowhere for trains to pass on this route and so a stopping train would get you there first.

Journey times should now be quicker and trains can stop at the Ruislips more easily -alowing others to pass.

It's a pretty good service I think, but they are demanding and know their stuff on this route.

 

[20Man]

My wife commutes from High Wycombe to Marylebone and she says that the big problem is getting on some of the trains, especially returning from Marylebone. She has had to let trains go and try for the next service simply because she couldn't get on the train, let alone get a seat. I can only see things getting worse if they start to attract more people from the northern end of the line, which after all is what the new timetable is about, and when the Oxford direct service starts. It seems as if they simply don't have enough capacity on the trains at the moment.

I was wondering if they would be able to get some 3 car 172's of their own to help with capacity, as thay already have the 2 car 172's running. Chiltern are doing a 3 day census of all trains arriving at Marylebone next week so it will be interesting to see what comes of that. Some drivers have been moaning about the new service as well, some to passengers directly and others overheard whilst talking to other members of staff, I guess out of frustration.

 

[oversteer]

In fairness I can see how HWY commuters are affected most

HWY Pre TT: 16 trains, avg 41mins
HWY Post TT: 13 trains, avg 39mins

What's also evident is that because the times have shuffled about, most of the time you need to get to stations earlier to get in for the same sort of time..

Eg on the old timetable you get to HWY at 0730 to arrive MYB 0808.
New TT, you either get the 0725 arr 0802 or 0742 arr 0821.

Seems minimal, but could be the difference between getting to work on time or not. And nobody would regard having to get up earlier as an improvement

 

[Chafford1]

Some 'before' and 'after' photos from Princes Risborough and Bicester, courtesy of 'Industry Insider' on the First Great Western Coffee Shop website:

PRINCES RISBOROUGH (before on the left, after on the right)

BICESTER NORTH (before on the left, after on the right)

[/quote]

 

[TDK]

I can only see things getting worse if they start to attract more people from the northern end of the line, which after all is what the new timetable is about, and when the Oxford direct service starts. It seems as if they simply don't have enough capacity on the trains at the moment..

I would imagine anyone who want to travel from the North on a regular basis will use the fast services that do not stop at High Wycombe

Some drivers have been moaning about the new service as well, some to passengers directly and others overheard whilst talking to other members of staff, I guess out of frustration

So what have the drivers been syaing or moaning about as I haven't heard anything said by any drivers' I know, the only thing that the drivers are concerned about are the teething problems with the infrastructure.

 

[20Man]

I think there could be problems over all Chiltern services if passenger numbers increase over the whole route, not just on the southern part, as I don't think that they have enough stock to cope with much more than a small increase in numbers, and I can see the Oxford direct services bringing a fairly large increase in passengers..

The drivers I've spoken to and those that have been heard talking to other staff have said that when they saw the new timetable they thought that there would be overcrowding issues, they said they are getting a bit frustrated themselves. The infrastructure problems I'm sure will be sorted quite quickly.

I must say though that it still seems a bit strange to come from Neasden junction at the new line speeds, a bit different from when I drove the old 115's, impressive when you consider how run down the line had got at one point. I watched the old 'Chiltern Take Two' video just to remind me how much better the track is these days.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think there could be problems over all Chiltern services if passenger numbers increase over the whole route, not just on the southern part, as I don't think that they have enough stock to cope with much more than a small increase in numbers, and I can see the Oxford direct services bringing a fairly large increase in passengers..

The answer to that is that Chiltern is contracted differently to other TOCs, if the Oxford service causes more overcrowding they will have to deal with it by increasing or lengthening services. The plan is to introduce far more loco hauled stock when 168s are transferred to Oxford services, which is why they seem to have so many unused Mk3 stock at the moment.

What they can't do is just sit sit back and watch trains get more and more packed out...

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Out of curiosity, does anybody know what the lights in Gerrards Cross tunnel are for? The tunnel has been there in various states of repair for six or seven years now, and right at the very end of the blockade in August about 30 lamp posts (approx 15 on either side of the track) were erected at the M25 end of the infamous Tesco tunnel at Gerrards Cross station, half the lamp posts are inside the tunnel, half outside. I have asked a few people and nobody seems to know their purpose. Can anybody on the P Way shed any light? (pun intended)

 

[swt_passenger]

Out of curiosity, does anybody know what the lights in Gerrards Cross tunnel are for?

A lot of permanent lighting is being put in for overnight patrolling and maintenance alongside switches and crossings. Is there a running junction at the tunnel mouth?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Yeah, there is a new down to up crossover inside the tunnel. The lamp posts run the length of that. Problem solved.

 

[oversteer]

Do any trains actually use the crossover (in normal service) ?
Ie. Bypassing a train standing at platform 2

 

[150219]

Do any trains actually use the crossover (in normal service) ?
Ie. Bypassing a train standing at platform 2

Nothing is timetabled to. AFAIK it was used as an ad hoc move for the first time in passenger service on Friday morning.