Evergreen 3 Phase 1

[oversteer]

So apparently the two-week blockade has overrun a bit - disruptions on Bank Holiday Monday and the possibility of it extending into Tuesday

Any idea what's gone wrong ?

If planned engineering works overrun, is there any requirement from the TOC to refund season tickets etc ?

 

[swt_passenger]

So apparently the two-week blockade has overrun a bit - disruptions on Bank Holiday Monday and the possibility of it extending into Tuesday

Any idea what's gone wrong ?

If planned engineering works overrun, is there any requirement from the TOC to refund season tickets etc ?

One possible reason for the delays is simply that the earlier Cotswold redoubling overran. There are only a relatively small number of people who can do the final tests of signalling installations.

In the normal course there would be no refunds for an overrun, as long as they could just carry on with the planned and published bustitution and diversions, and on these blockades there will almost always be a contingency plan to extend the bustitution, ie the contracts will just carry on.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The company seemed to be half expecting it. They had amended diagrams for train crew and coaches on standby yesterday just in case, same again today and I presume the same tomorrow if the worst happens. There was a week between the work's scheduled finishing and the new timetable kicking in to allow for the TSR's while track beds in. Lets hope we dont lose all of that to an over run.

 

[RPM]

From what I can gather all the physical engineering work was completed on time but when the new signalling was tested absolutely none of it worked correctly.

 

[150219]

The company seemed to be half expecting it. They had amended diagrams for train crew and coaches on standby yesterday just in case, same again today and I presume the same tomorrow if the worst happens. There was a week between the work's scheduled finishing and the new timetable kicking in to allow for the TSR's while track beds in. Lets hope we dont lose all of that to an over run.

It's standard practice for engineering works to have a fallback contingency plan. The fallback for this blockade was for the full suite of diagrams, timetables etc.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The test train is out and about, no problems reported. Looks like we will be good to go tomorrow.

 

[oversteer]

That's not the view customer services are taking

 

[Cherry_Picker]

This is on the website now: (link)

Dear Passenger,
As I write this on the evening of Monday 29th August there is, unfortunately, a risk that we will not be able to run our full service on Tuesday 30th August due to severe delays completing planned engineering works.

As part of a major upgrade project, we have been operating special timetables for the last fortnight. This was to enable track improvement works, junction upgrades and signalling improvements.
The work ran to time throughout the two weeks, with track and station works running ahead of schedule. However, it became apparent at the end of last week that the signalling work was at risk.

A revised schedule was put in place by the contractors in an attempt to complete the project ready to run a normal service the morning of Tuesday 30th August, but despite their efforts there is a real risk that we will need to put in place contingency timetables.

I know how disappointed our customers will feel if we are not able to operate a full service. We are very frustrated that we have been let down by our contractors and may not be able to offer the standard of service you are right to expect. I offer my unreserved apologies to all passengers whose journeys may be disrupted tomorrow.

The only positive which I can offer you is that this is the final stage of our route upgrade and, when we have completed our final track consolidation works (which we will conclude overnight this week), the project will be complete.

Yours faithfully,
Rob Brighouse
Managing Director

Looks like the test train didnt go as well as I had heard then.

 

[RPM]

I took a proving train from Princes Risborough to Marylebone just after 5am this morning and there were no major problems - just a couple of wrong direction AWS magnets that weren't supressed. The signals, track circuits and ATP all behaved themselves. The passenger service started with only a few delays to the very early trains.

 

[oversteer]

Excellent. I got a text message at about 0519 saying that services were running normally so I bet there were some tense moments for whoever books the coaches! Fingers crossed all working reliably (even if I did see a 67 go through a green signal then stop halfway through, driver got out and used the trackside phone - I wonder if this was a ATP thing?)

 

[Cherry_Picker]

67s aren't fitted with ATP.

 

[Dampflok]

Yes, things running almost to plan this morning, though early down trains were subject to some delays.

I went to Princes Risborough station to see what might happen and whilst en route, by car, I saw 67018 heading north with presumably a late running 5U08 through Longwick (just north of Princes Risborough) at 06:36, some 40 minutes late on its schedule, which didn't augur well for 1H08, the up working from Banbury.

All signals at Princes Risborough working and the new track formation considerably tidied up with a lot of redundant materials cleared away.

I was hoping that 1H06 would use the new through line as it does not stop at Princes Risborough, but at the appropriate time the signal on the up platform line cleared and 67014 went south on a silver set with 82305 on the rear at 07:08, just a couple of minutes late.

A short while later, the information screens were showing that the 07:30 train was due at 07:36, which somewhat surprised me as this is 1H08, so presumably making a very swift turn round at Banbury to be only a few minutes late. However, an announcement was then made that the 07:30 was cancelled...

The next train after this is the 07:44, which starts from Aylesbury and the road was set for this to come off the branch, meanwhile a green signal appeared on the up through line! I assumed that this would be for 1H09 to use the centre road as it was now running a bit late and might conflict with the 07:44 up train.

I was therefore surprised when 67018 appeared with set AL02 (the mixed-livery set) and ran through the centre in a cloud of ballast dust (presumably there is a TSR on this at the moment until it beds in). It was now 07:41 and I assume this was running as 5H08 (I gather the train had dragging brakes problems on the way to Banbury).

The 07:44 arrived into the platform from Aylesbury with the signal showing red, the signal on the centre road having gone green again...

67013 then appeared with another silver set (both sets now carrying Mainline branding) at 07:49 and overtook the 165 in the platform road. 1H09 normally passes through at around 07:33 ahead of the 07:44 which is a semi-fast, so it made sense on this occasion for 1H09 to overtake it.

121 034 was working the morning shuttles from Aylesbury.

Some pics will appear on my site later...

Cheers, Geoff

 

[swt_passenger]

Some pics will appear on my site later...

Cheers, Geoff

Look forward to seing them Geoff.

By the way I saw a few days ago you had a question about that odd looking signal head on the up main through Princes Risborough - presumably what was going on there has become clearer now?

 

[RichW1]

To be a little annoying here admittedly...is there any reason for settling at 100mph upgrading to certain sections and not 110? I know there'd be pathing issues with 125 but would 110 be so hard for the track alignment and pathing over a 50mile stretch? Only asking because I remember the 82 miles between Euston and Rugby offering around 10 minutes difference between the 110 and 100mph IC's. If gradients etc are more or less the same, couldn't it save another 3-5minutes without that much more effort if any at all? Chiltern could then have 1hr25 equal to Virgin times and not just near! What a marketing ploy!

 

[RPM]

The majority of the Birmingham trains are formed of 168s and they only do 100 (and only then with a fair wind and a falling gradient!). I'm not sure that the 67s are passed for passenger use above 100 either.

To be honest I think it is going to be difficult enough trying to path 100mph trains with 75 mph trains on a railway that is only double track, especially when things ket a bit out of kilter.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I saw 67018 heading north with presumably a late running 5U08 through Longwick (just north of Princes Risborough) at 06:36, some 40 minutes late on its schedule, which didn't augur well for 1H08, the up working from Banbury.

I was therefore surprised when 67018 appeared with set AL02 (the mixed-livery set) and ran through the centre in a cloud of ballast dust (presumably there is a TSR on this at the moment until it beds in). It was now 07:41 and I assume this was running as 5H08 (I gather the train had dragging brakes problems on the way to Banbury).

I passed it near Seer Green at about half 5 and there was a spectacular pyrotechnic display around the bogies which looked like dragging brakes so I reported it to the signaller. Seems I was right!

 

[Dampflok]

Look forward to seing them Geoff.

By the way I saw a few days ago you had a question about that odd looking signal head on the up main through Princes Risborough - presumably what was going on there has become clearer now?

Thanks, a few pics are now on my site, starting with this one:



image is "clickable" to take you to my site where this pic is followed by a few more.

Thanks RPM for your confirmation of the dragging brakes problem on 5U08 - was the problem on the loco or one of the coaches?

As far as the query over the signal head on what is now signal ME162, when this was first erected, it looked like the signal head was facing south, but apparently, it was only placed temporarily at the time before being properly positioned and so clearing up the query!

Here's the photo in question in case no-one knows what we are discussing:



The signal in the background is the one in question - it has now become ME162 and the foreground one has been re-designated, though I'm not sure what to...

Cheers, Geoff

 

[RPM]

Thanks RPM for your confirmation of the dragging brakes problem on 5U08 - was the problem on the loco or one of the coaches?

The loco.

 

[KiddyKid]

I had a good run up from Kiddy with the 06.10, seven late into MB having followed a preceeding train from South Ruislip and thats with all the ESR's....

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Here's the photo in question in case no-one knows what we are discussing:



The signal in the background is the one in question - it has now become ME162 and the foreground one has been re-designated, though I'm not sure what to...

Cheers, Geoff

Difficult to tell from that photo, but I assume you are standing on the up platform (#2) looking south? The signals should read ME164 (up & down platform loop) ME162 (up main, ie the new centre road) and ME160 (down main in the up direction, platform 3)

ME164 can give a main proceed aspect towards Saunderton, or a red with position lights and an X in the theatre box which takes the train onto the down main for shunting purposes (route cleared to limit of shunt signal ME658)

ME162 can do the same as ME164.

ME160 is a fixed red and can give position lights and an X in the theatre box which also takes trains to limit of shunt signal ME658 on the down main.


Have they messed around with the numbers then? I havent actually seen them in person yet.

 

[150219]

I was therefore surprised when 67018 appeared with set AL02 (the mixed-livery set) and ran through the centre in a cloud of ballast dust (presumably there is a TSR on this at the moment until it beds in). It was now 07:41 and I assume this was running as 5H08 (I gather the train had dragging brakes problems on the way to Banbury).

Hi Geoff,

5U08 was in receipt of a few delays yesterday (for different reasons) and was cancelled at Bicester to start 1H08 back on time.

However it then suffered from a further problem, which resulted in it departing from Bicester 15 mins late.

This was the first passenger service to run through the centre road at Princes Risborough, with 1H09 being the second one to do so shortly afterwards.

1H06 didn't run through the centre road, because the ARS is still programmed for the train paths of the current timetable (i.e. all up services run through platform 2 at Princes Risborough). Thus the routing of trains through the middle road is done through manual intervention at present.

 

[The Planner]

ARS shouldnt be, the schedules are shown which line they need afaik. The non-stoppers should be down the middle.

 

[Dampflok]

Thanks for the above replies Cherry_Picker and 150219.

With regard to the signals at Princes Risborough, the photo is taken from the car park. I do have other photos taken since, but the number on the up platform loop signal is not visible in them, but should be ME164 as you state. The signal at the south end of the down platform (the fixed red aspect) is indeed ME160. Thanks also for the explanation of what each signal can display.

With regard to 5U08/1H08 on Tuesday, thanks for the further info. When I saw 5U08 running rather late I did wonder whether it might go any further than Bicester in order to regain its proper path on the return as 1H08, but wasn't sure whether the turnback siding at Bicester is long enough to accommodate it.

When 1H06 appeared at Princes Risborough and used the platform loop line I did wonder if indeed this was because that was its designated routing until the new timetable comes into operation next week, so then expected 1H09 to do the same, so I was highly delighted when both 5H08 (if that's what 67018 returned as) and 1H09 used the new line, though this was probably because both were running late and there was the potential conflict with the 07:28 from Aylesbury to Marylebone (07:44 at Princes Risborough).

Does anyone know if 67018 worked the return 1U53 Marylebone - Banbury in the Tuesday evening?

Cheers, Geoff

 

[Chafford1]

Geoff


Are you going to be taking any photos of the new alignments at Neasden and Northolt Junctions?

 

[hick]

5H08 (if that's what 67018 returned as

It ran as 1H08 started short at BCS, but encountered a CDL problem and so ran fast HDM to MYB

 

[NIMBUS]

With regard to the signals at Princes Risborough, the photo is taken from the car park. I do have other photos taken since, but the number on the up platform loop signal is not visible in them, but should be ME164 as you state.

Geoff,

The same arrangement applied when they put in the starting signal at the south end of the northbound platform and also when the three heads were first placed on the gantry. I think that it was just the contractor's method of installation - put the unfixed signal head in the cradle facing away from the direction of use (presumably to avoid any confusion if, for example, sunlight hit the signal head), tied in with rope - as you can see in your picture of the new ME164 - then rotate the head when it's physically fitted.

 

[Dampflok]

Thanks for the various replies above. I didn't cotton on to what was being said about 67018's up trip on Tuesday, not realising it was actually carrying passengers. As the down ECS working had had problems en route and the train ran non-stop through Princes Risborough, I presumed it was running as ECS...

Concentrating on taking the photos and with the train rather obscured by all the dust thrown up, I didn't notice whether there were passengers on board or not!

I'll amend the captions to my photos accordingly.

Thanks for the explanation of the signal head installation methods as well, I did find this a bit confusing, but all is now clear.

Cheers, Geoff

 

[oversteer]

What do the "diagonal" or "v" signals indicate ?

I've seen a few about, usually on the 'wrong side'

 

[RPM]

Like the one on the left in Geoff's picture? It is a position light signal. Takes the place of former shunt and calling on signals in old money. Two diagonal whites mean you can pass the red signal for a shunt move etc. but the section ahead is not necessarily clear, nor is the next main aspect signal. Or do you mean route indicators/feathers?

 

[oversteer]

The one at the top with 67018 .. the 5 lights in a diagonal line \ and then the \ / arrangement next to it?
I guess they light up to tell you you're going off in that direction ?

 

[TDK]

The one at the top with 67018 .. the 5 lights in a diagonal line \ and then the \ / arrangement next to it?
I guess they light up to tell you you're going off in that direction ?

Yes, they are junction indicators to show what route has been set.