Euston overcrowding

[Starmill]

I was slightly exaggerating, but if you stick to that you can't go far wrong. The policy is certainly that trains can't be dispatched with people the wrong side, nor can you be the wrong side on any platform where trains come through non stop other than momentarily if someone is blocking the way. Nobody will shout if you stand closer on a train that is presently boarding, but the need to do that is fairly niche.

Manchester Piccadilly has a red line as well as a yellow line, whci is ridiculous because it leaves little room to actually wait in, and it's entirely unclear why bother with both. Instead of actually doing something that might help people understand they just painted another line on in a different colour and got staff to shout at people for going over it. What's the difference?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2025 ==

No, just goes out of the window a bit during disruption. In general, it's been much better

All the actual risks only really arise during disruption. At 0600 on a Saturday morning it doesn't really matter what you do as the station will be fine either way with the number of people who would ever be there at that time.

 

[saismee]

Manchester Piccadilly has a red line as well as a yellow line, whci is ridiculous because it leaves little room to actually wait in, and it's entirely unclear why bother with both. Instead of actually doing something that might help people understand they just painted another line on in a different colour and got staff to shout at people for going over it. What's the difference?

Could this be for A/B zoning for platforms? Ipswich has a similar (and very worn down) version with three differently coloured lines along different sections of the platform.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Could this be for A/B zoning for platforms? Ipswich has a similar (and very worn down) version with three differently coloured lines along different sections of the platform.

No I think it’s the red inside the yellow rather than different colours for a and b etc

 

[Starmill]

Could this be for A/B zoning for platforms? Ipswich has a similar (and very worn down) version with three differently coloured lines along different sections of the platform.

No sadly, it's a second line inside the yellow one that you get shouted at if you cross.

 

[dvboy]

Sunday evening my train disappeared from the board before its platform was announced, which was done manually after a few passengers queried it with Avanti staff.

It went 15 minutes late and the coach I was in was half full despite being fully reserved. I imagine many of the passengers ended up on the next service instead.

It didn’t help that RTT was showing it had already left from a different platform.

 

[railfan99]

Unlike many above, I've had reasonable to very good experiences at London Euston joining trains.

In one recent year, I was unable to have my paper first class Global Eurailpass validated at Euston on a Saturday morning because the ticket office was closed until 0930 hours due to an alleged 'staff shortage'.

The gent on the gate approached the conductor on my behalf, who said it was fine to travel to Manchester Piccadilly where I could visit the booking office.

 

[Hadders]

Here’s another example of Euston from yesterday:

At 12:43:00 the 12:46 LNR to Crewe was shown on the departure board as Expected 12:48



At 12:44:50 it is still shown as Expected 12:48 but with no platform.



At 12:44:56 the train is shown as departing from platform 8 but still shown as Expected 12:48 (i.e. the platform was displayed 3 minutes before departure).

Many people waiting on the concourse for that train will become anxious, especially when they see platforms being announced for later trains. And then we wonder why there's a problem with people running for trains....

 

[Jamesrob637]

The evening peak, particularly Friday.

Thursday now, more than ever!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thursday now, more than ever!

Don't forget the "weekend away" traffic on a Friday.

 

[Russel]

Here’s another example of Euston from yesterday:

At 12:43:00 the 12:46 LNR to Crewe was shown on the departure board as Expected 12:48

View attachment 182644

At 12:44:50 it is still shown as Expected 12:48 but with no platform.

View attachment 182645

At 12:44:56 the train is shown as departing from platform 8 but still shown as Expected 12:48 (i.e. the platform was displayed 3 minutes before departure).View attachment 182646

Many people waiting on the concourse for that train will become anxious, especially when they see platforms being announced for later trains. And then we wonder why there's a problem with people running for trains....

Looking at RTT, it arrived at 12:38, so if you give 5 minutes to unload, the platform should have been displayed at 12:43.

 

[Hadders]

Looking at RTT, it arrived at 12:38, so if you give 5 minutes to unload, the platform should have been displayed at 12:43.

What’s stopping the passengers being told it’s going from platform 8 before the inbound service arrives? And letting the passengers wait there?

I saw this happening on platform 10 at Kings Cross in the evening rush yesterday.

 

[Horizon22]

Looking at RTT, it arrived at 12:38, so if you give 5 minutes to unload, the platform should have been displayed at 12:43.

Or it should have had a less ambitious departure time.

 

[Russel]

What’s stopping the passengers being told it’s going from platform 8 before the inbound service arrives? And letting the passengers wait there?

I saw this happening on platform 10 at Kings Cross in the evening rush yesterday.

True, they could have at least let everyone wait on the ramp.

Or it should have had a less ambitious departure time.

Looks like it came in as a service from Milton Keynes rather than the usual Crewe inbound service, was there disruption?

 

[BRX]

Massive WCML disruption this evening - I arrived into Euston off a heavily delayed train and as i was walking up the ramp saw a large crowd sprinting across the concourse and down the ramp to platform 2. This was for the (delayed) 2300 to Wolverhampton and it must have been announced at about 2320. When I got into the concourse I could see on one of the side screens it was listed as leaving at 2330, so the crowd was nominally given 10 minutes notice. However I noticed that on the main board, it was simply listed as 2300 (no indication of planned actual departure time).

If you're waiting for a 2300 departure, 2300 ticks by, and then the platform is announced at 2320 - you can see why some people might be anxious to reach what is probably their last train of the day.

I don't understand why the actual departure time isn't listed on the main board.


(RTT suggests the train had been sitting in platform 2 since 2208 by the way, but I don't know if that's reliable)

 

[michael8]

What other customer service industry has trained staff to routinely shout at its customers? Belief in that need has been embedded by the industry’s managers and the associated attitudes, values and behaviours follow from it.

Lifeguards for one
Police
Anything with an element of public safety, I guess..

 

[Hadders]

If you're waiting for a 2300 departure, 2300 ticks by, and then the platform is announced at 2320 - you can see why some people might be anxious to reach what is probably their last train of the day.

Indeed. This is the root cause of the issue.

I don't understand why the actual departure time isn't listed on the main board.

Based on my observations at Euston on Sunday and Wednesday the Expected Departure time is advertised. But often the platform is only first displayed less than five minutes before the Expected departure time.

 

[michael8]

Station staff at Euston should be given disciplinaries if they are chatting with each other whilst on duty at peak hours
Easy to implement this new rule
We are not paying them to chit-chat
They work for us, not the other way round
I was a lifeguard, we were not allowed to chit-chat on poolside as it distracts your attention and looks bad - should be no different for safety-critical station staff
This country has become so so sloppy. It needs to stop.

 

[hux385]

Station staff at Euston should be given disciplinaries if they are chatting with each other whilst on duty at peak hours
Easy to implement this new rule
We are not paying them to chit-chat
They work for us, not the other way round
I was a lifeguard, we were not allowed to chit-chat on poolside as it distracts your attention and looks bad - should be no different for safety-critical station staff
This country has become so so sloppy. It needs to stop.

So how exactly are staff supposed to handover information about train running, station security, passenger assistance, ticket acceptance etc if they aren't allowed to talk to each other? I think that situation of banning staff from talking would make for a rather 'sloppy' station operation.

 

[BRX]

Based on my observations at Euston on Sunday and Wednesday the Expected Departure time is advertised. But often the platform is only first displayed less than five minutes before the Expected departure time.

That didn't seem to be the case tonight - this is what was on the main board (just 2300):



And this is what was on a kind of side board, at the back of the concourse (additionally a "status" time of 2330):



(Both photos taken at about 2322)

 

[plugwash]

Could this be for A/B zoning for platforms? Ipswich has a similar (and very worn down) version with three differently coloured lines along different sections of the platform.

No, it's a red inside the yellow.

I think the original idea was the red was for marking the waiting area while the yellow marked the safe area, so pepole could get past waiting passengers, but I get the impression that in practice the staff just treat the red line like a second yellow line.

 

[rmHawk765]

At 12:44:56 the train is shown as departing from platform 8 but still shown as Expected 12:48 (i.e. the platform was displayed 3 minutes before departure).

It is very odd why Euston does this, isn't it. The only reason I can think of is to avoid clashes with crowds exiting the platforms from trains that have just arrived which there very well could be if the train is effectively running off schedule, but it simultaneously negates any sort of benefit like that because now you have a massive crowd trying to get on in time.

So how exactly are staff supposed to handover information about train running, station security, passenger assistance, ticket acceptance etc if they aren't allowed to talk to each other? I think that situation of banning staff from talking would make for a rather 'sloppy' station operation.

There's a difference between chit-chat and actual operational communication.

 

[Harpo]

There's a difference between chit-chat and actual operational communication.

Just as there’s a huge difference between team spirit and dispirited teams.

 

[hux385]

There's a difference between chit-chat and actual operational communication.

But it would be a waste of managers' time to enforce no chit-chat because they would have no way of distinguishing why collegues were talking. I'd much prefer higher-ups to be spending their time also trying to crowd manage, keep the station running safely, cascading as much information to frontline staff as possible rather than eavesdropping on staff to enforce a primary school type of rule.

Increase the trust in the front line staff and then manage the situation through proper debriefs and training afterwards rather than punishing people for trying to stay positive during what is a stressful situation for staff?

 

[43066]

May just be following instructions, but the staff at Euston are some of the most hostile and unhelpful on the network, from experience. It will take more than a change of management only to solve anything, properly... The rot set in a long time ago and runs very deep, changing the staffs attitude after many years is no simple job.

If it’s a cultural issue it will affect new staff just as much as existing ones - so getting rid of the current staff members won’t make any difference.

And views differ. My experiences at Euston have been pretty good on the whole.

Station staff at Euston should be given disciplinaries if they are chatting with each other whilst on duty at peak hours
Easy to implement this new rule
We are not paying them to chit-chat
They work for us, not the other way round
I was a lifeguard, we were not allowed to chit-chat on poolside as it distracts your attention and looks bad - should be no different for safety-critical station staff
This country has become so so sloppy. It needs to stop.

You aren’t paying the staff, their employer is. Furthermore, how exactly could any employer make it a disciplinary offence for staff to communicate with one another?

 

[43066]

But it would be a waste of managers' time to enforce no chit-chat because they would have no way of distinguishing why collegues were talking. I'd much prefer higher-ups to be spending their time also trying to crowd manage, keep the station running safely, cascading as much information to frontline staff as possible rather than eavesdropping on staff to enforce a primary school type of rule.

Increase the trust in the front line staff and then manage the situation through proper debriefs and training afterwards rather than punishing people for trying to stay positive during what is a stressful situation for staff?

I think it’s safe to say that that suggestion has been made by someone with no experience of people management!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Lifeguards for one
Police
Anything with an element of public safety, I guess..

Generally they prefer to speak assertively than shout as this is much more professional and effective. Shouting is a very last resort. For some rail staff it's a first resort.

Shouting and professionally projecting a loud voice are very much not the same thing.

The only shouting I heard was about people standing in the tunnel, though, and they know how they can prevent that - big clue: nobody will stand where they can't see a display. Being visible from the tunnel is one of the biggest problems caused by the transverse boards.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2025 ==

It is very odd why Euston does this, isn't it. The only reason I can think of is to avoid clashes with crowds exiting the platforms from trains that have just arrived which there very well could be if the train is effectively running off schedule, but it simultaneously negates any sort of benefit like that because now you have a massive crowd trying to get on in time.

It also meant the concourse was excessively crowded. The trains were there, they had decided not to cancel them, why not board them? Not doing so created a safety issue that required the station to be closed for those trying to enter it, and that created a safety issue of a fairly big rush when the doors were reopened.

 

[styles]

Generally they prefer to speak assertively than shout as this is much more professional and effective. Shouting is a very last resort. For some rail staff it's a first resort.

Shouting and professionally projecting a loud voice are very much not the same thing.

Should just be a natural thing.

I've been a scout leader for nearly 15 years and I think I've shouted at our explorer scouts (aged 14-17) twice. Once when one of them heard from another leader that, "back in my day" they could have a beer round the campfire, so next camp they brought rum and cider, and I swear the smell in the tent was worse than distillery tours I've been on; and once, funnily enough, to get a couple of them to the back of a Tube station platform instead of hanging around by the platform edge when the train we'd just got off was departing.

Obviously police have more cause to shout but their default mode should still be calm and assertive, and in the UK I generally find it is.

If people are being actively dangerous on the railway yes they may need shouting at to impress urgency, but if it's becoming commonplace at certain stations or in certain situations, then there's a fundamental problem which needs addressing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If people are being actively dangerous on the railway yes they may need shouting at to impress urgency, but if it's becoming commonplace at certain stations or in certain situations, then there's a fundamental problem which needs addressing.

The thing they were mostly shouting about (people standing in the tunnel) didn't require any shouting, it just required turning off all the transverse boards. The effect of this would be people moving to where they could see a board, i.e. out of the tunnel.

The thing that flummoxes me about Network Rail (and it's the same at Manchester Piccadilly) is why they are so averse to designing things so people naturally do what they want. In most of the cases where they employ the shouty men, there are options to do so.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2025 ==

That didn't seem to be the case tonight - this is what was on the main board (just 2300):

View attachment 182699

And this is what was on a kind of side board, at the back of the concourse (additionally a "status" time of 2330):

View attachment 182700

(Both photos taken at about 2322)

The main board only has one status field and can display an Expected time (and was displaying it, though in some cases it just showed Delayed where that was what the back end data had*) as well as an expected boarding time in some cases) but this disappears once Boarding is displayed.

* Not every inbound and outbound are linked in the data to derive it automatically. The ones that are you can see that in Realtime Trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2025 ==

If people are being actively dangerous on the railway yes they may need shouting at to impress urgency, but if it's becoming commonplace at certain stations or in certain situations, then there's a fundamental problem which needs addressing.

It did become commonplace when they introduced the requirement to have the train side of the yellow line clear to dispatch, and it was clearly frustrated, angry shouting, not professional loud voice projection (maybe some training?), but that has died down a lot now people are more used to it. As far as introducing a significant behavioural change goes, it was mismanaged in the sort of way only the railway seems to achieve at times.

 

[BRX]

The main board only has one status field and can display an Expected time (and was displaying it, though in some cases it just showed Delayed where that was what the back end data had*) as well as an expected boarding time in some cases) but this disappears once Boarding is displayed.

I don't see a good reason to stop displaying it once boarding has started. Generally if you're waiting for a delayed train, it's not unusual for the "expected" to keep changing (in either direction). If I'm waiting for a 2300 train, and it's gone past 2300 I am going to be looking quite frequently at the board but not continuously. If I look up and the "expected" time has disappeared to be replaced with boarding, I don't know what the "expected" time was before it disappeared. Maybe i've watched it go from 2315 to 2340 and then to 2330. For all I know it might have gone to 2325, and now it's 2320. Presenting the information like this is bound to make many people anxious and to make it more likely that they are going to run. Which is exactly what I watched happening - a very large crowd (presumably two trains' worth) heading for platform 2 visibly in a hurry with many people running. It was rather difficult to cross paths with this crowd, to get from the top of my ramp to the concourse. The way the information is displayed on the main board encourages this hurrying - it's simply bad design.

This is on top of the question of how much notice is given. In this case, it looks like it was 10 minutes. As others have said, passengers are bombarded with various warnings about gates closing two minutes before departure. So it's really 7 or 8 minutes for people with luggage to get from the concourse, down the corridor to the top of the p2 ramp, and then potentially to the far end of an 11 coach train. Although that probably is enough time, to walk that distance calmly, it won't feel like it to many people. Given that (if the info on RTT was correct) the train appeared to have been sitting there since just after 2200, I'd be interested to know if 2320 was really the earliest it was reasonably possible to announce the platform. Aside from anything else, when you're tired and delayed, it's much more comfortable to wait in your seat on your train than standing on the concourse waiting for a last minute announcement.

 

[tfw756rider]

What is this tunnel that's been mentioned?