European Migration Crisis - General Discussion

[ainsworth74]

It occurred to me today that perhaps our EU referendum in 2017 will be academic as there might be an EU for is to have a referendum about!

 

[Johnuk123]

A mandatory quota system has just gone through via qualified majority voting (QMV) meaning that Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania will be forced, despite large scale opposition, to settle migrants in their nations. 120,000 migrants will be settled within the EU under this system. From memory, this is the first time that QMV has been used in such a controversial area to overcome objections from member states.

Reuters have also reported in the past few days that Iraqi soldiers are now deserting their posts fighting ISIL and are migrating to Europe.

Slovakia has said they won't accept any migrants despite having Merkel's jackboot on their neck.

The 120,000 that the countries are being forced to accept is going to look like a trickle in a few months, this decision sends the message out to the world that Europe will take anybody who thinks they can get a better life no questions asked for the foreseeable future.

The 120,000 number is just 20 days of migrants, so this plan which has already been rejected by 4 countries but forced on them anyway is going to prove simply unworkable and will fail within weeks if not days.
Forcing countries to do as they're told under threat of financial penalties sounds an excellent way to foster harmony.

 

[Hornet]

Slovakia has said they won't accept any migrants despite having Merkel's jackboot on their neck.

The 120,000 that the countries are being forced to accept is going to look like a trickle in a few months, this decision sends the message out to the world that Europe will take you in no questions asked for the foreseeable future.

You have to wonder what will happen to those who thought Germany would take them, only to be told that they are going to be shipped off to a Country that does not want them. Still Germany has only got itself to blame, saying one thing, but doing another. (Bit like the VW scandal really).

 

[Johnuk123]

You have to wonder what will happen to those who thought Germany would take them, only to be told that they are going to be shipped off to a Country that does not want them. Still Germany has only got itself to blame, saying one thing, but doing another. (Bit like the VW scandal really).

Merkel must be having massive regrets over her "everybody welcome" speech as it's split Europe right down the middle.

I believe this is the first time the EU dominated by Germany has forced member countries to obey them in a matter which is a basic issue of national sovereignty.
It will be interested to see what the EU does to the countries that don't buckle under, will financial penalties be enough.

Sky showing an interview today with a Syrian who has made it to Germany.
He said quite categorically that if he couldn't stay in Germany he would go back to Syria and he also said if you ask around all the migrants every Syrian would go home if they can't stay in Germany.

Seems it's Germany or Syria then, if I was fleeing persecution and war I'm sure I'd rather go back to Syria than stay in Greece/Hungary/Italy/France etc. somewhat blows the asylum argument out of the water.

The countries being forced to accept migrants that they don't want will surely let them in and immediately issue them with a passport so they can then go back to Germany or here or anywhere they fancy.

 

[Groningen]

Eh; do not get surprised if you hear from a civil war in the Netherlands. There are signs that we are not going to take it anymore; maybe only with police force, but there is almost no backing from the public.

Refugees complain about having no sigarettes, slow Internet, getting helped in stores by a female (woman). People are playing football at 2.30 in the morning. Traveling without a trainticket. Things that cannot be done for our senior citizens; can be done for the refugees. Houses; the native population has to wait a few years extra. Today a few refugees wanted to jump of a bridge if they did not get what they want.

Yes; the Netherlands is the Netherlands not anymore. And of course praying 5 times to Mecca as a good moslim behaves. Not praying means your not a moslim and gets punished. And the final straw today was the news that 14 to 15 year old girls were to be reunited with her man. Yes; it is a legal marriage in the Middle East. Oh; harrashing females in the Netherlands is also become a trend by some refugees. Not dressing to the standard of the islam.

And so i can typ and typ and typ.

 

[deltic]

Eh; do not get surprised if you hear from a civil war in the Netherlands. There are signs that we are not going to take it anymore; maybe only with police force, but there is almost no backing from the public.

Refugees complain about having no sigarettes, slow Internet, getting helped in stores by a female (woman). People are playing football at 2.30 in the morning. Traveling without a trainticket. Things that cannot be done for our senior citizens; can be done for the refugees. Houses; the native population has to wait a few years extra. Today a few refugees wanted to jump of a bridge if they did not get what they want.

Yes; the Netherlands is the Netherlands not anymore. And of course praying 5 times to Mecca as a good moslim behaves. Not praying means your not a moslim and gets punished. And the final straw today was the news that 14 to 15 year old girls were to be reunited with her man. Yes; it is a legal marriage in the Middle East. Oh; harrashing females in the Netherlands is also become a trend by some refugees. Not dressing to the standard of the islam.

And so i can typ and typ and typ.

Are you saying the 14,000 refugees Netherlands has taken from Syria in the last 4 years (figures I have seen quoted which may of course be in-correct) are causing mayhem or are there other issues here? The percentage of Muslims in the Netherlands is slightly higher than in the UK.

In what way is the Netherlands now different - you are still allowed to smoke cannabis, you can still drink, you can still go topless on the beach, prostitution and the sex industry still exist. Interested to know what has changed and why?

 

[Johnuk123]

Eh; do not get surprised if you hear from a civil war in the Netherlands. There are signs that we are not going to take it anymore; maybe only with police force, but there is almost no backing from the public.

Refugees complain about having no sigarettes, slow Internet, getting helped in stores by a female (woman). People are playing football at 2.30 in the morning. Traveling without a trainticket. Things that cannot be done for our senior citizens; can be done for the refugees. Houses; the native population has to wait a few years extra. Today a few refugees wanted to jump of a bridge if they did not get what they want.

Yes; the Netherlands is the Netherlands not anymore. And of course praying 5 times to Mecca as a good moslim behaves. Not praying means your not a moslim and gets punished. And the final straw today was the news that 14 to 15 year old girls were to be reunited with her man. Yes; it is a legal marriage in the Middle East. Oh; harrashing females in the Netherlands is also become a trend by some refugees. Not dressing to the standard of the islam.

And so i can typ and typ and typ.

The mayor of Rotterdam Morrocan born Ahmed Aboutaleb has told Dutch muslims to "stop seeing yourself as victims, if you don't want to integrate, leave."
In fact he used very choice language in telling them to leave, language which is not allowed on here.

 

[Jonny]

Also, a lot of the migrants are runaways from the so-called Free Syrian Army, who are also Sunni Muslims. Assuming that they remain as such, they should be given a choice, considering their willingness to bear arms:

A.) Go back and redeem themselves by fighting ISIS, as part of the (proper) Syrian Army.
B.) Face the judicial consequences of their treason - Syrian style.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Eh; do not get surprised if you hear from a civil war in the Netherlands. There are signs that we are not going to take it anymore; maybe only with police force, but there is almost no backing from the public.

Refugees complain about having no sigarettes, slow Internet, getting helped in stores by a female (woman). People are playing football at 2.30 in the morning. Traveling without a trainticket. Things that cannot be done for our senior citizens; can be done for the refugees. Houses; the native population has to wait a few years extra. Today a few refugees wanted to jump of a bridge if they did not get what they want.

Yes; the Netherlands is the Netherlands not anymore. And of course praying 5 times to Mecca as a good moslim behaves. Not praying means your not a moslim and gets punished. And the final straw today was the news that 14 to 15 year old girls were to be reunited with her man. Yes; it is a legal marriage in the Middle East. Oh; harrashing females in the Netherlands is also become a trend by some refugees. Not dressing to the standard of the islam.

And so i can typ and typ and typ.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if something kicked off.

Besides, if they are smokers then they are disgusting and they deserve everything that comes their way.

However, if you are going to try to bring in Islamic standards, values and culture then you should expect to be dispatched to a country that holds to those standards (Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan if not Syria). Once there, they will be held to their own standards.

Oh, and did I mention that Islam permits the consummation of marriages at Nine (yes, Nine) years old. See http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Aishas_Age_of_Consummation for a basic introduction to the relevant issues.

Also, if they were FSA members then they represent a risk of repeating their behaviour (kicking off conflict while surrounded by civilians) and are unfit to live in a peaceful country.

 

[ExRes]

Besides, if they are smokers then they are disgusting and they deserve everything that comes their way.

hock:

Let's just hope they don't have their kids in the car as well, can I assume that drinkers and drug users also fall into this category?

 

[Johnuk123]

From todays Times :

Syrian asylum seekers in Greece have refused to be relocated to Luxembourg, pushing the European Union’s scheme for migrant quotas close to collapse.

The Times understands that plans to relocate 30 Syrians from Greece to the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, one of Europe’s wealthiest countries, have been shelved because “very many” of them want to go to Germany instead.

Diplomats report that there are also problems rounding up migrants to go to Estonia because Italian and Greek authorities are reluctant to force people to go where they do not want to.

“The quotas are not so people can go asylum shopping,” one EU diplomat said. “If you say you are escaping war, you can’t refuse to go to Luxembourg. It is making a joke out of the whole quota system.”

The EU agreed quotas this month to relocate 160,000 refugees across Europe, overriding protests from east European countries such as Romania which warned that migrants would refuse to be sent to cities such as Bucharest.

Last week the European Commission organised television cameras for a media event when the first group of 19 Eritreans was relocated from Italy to Sweden. Officials have since revealed that the exercise was nearly a disaster.

The original plan was for 33 Eritreans to board an Italian military aircraft to Stockholm last Thursday. However, 14 Eritrean refugees “absconded” the day before and “the remaining people had to be placed under lock and key to stop them disappearing too”, a source said.

What an absolute shambles this whole self inflicted saga is, when some EU bureaucrat calls it "asylum shopping" have they finally realised that Merkel might have made the most disastrous peacetime decision ever.

 

[Groningen]

To make room for asylumtrains some german IC services are drop. Especially in the Frankfurt and Stuttgart. For example a friday only from Flensburg via Hamburg to Muenchen seems to be dropped. Whether this is really done i do not know.

 

[Mag_seven]

Syrian asylum seekers in Greece have refused to be relocated to Luxembourg, pushing the European Union’s scheme for migrant quotas close to collapse.

Well they can just be bloody well flown back to Syria then - beggars cannot be choosers.

 

[radamfi]

Well they can just be bloody well flown back to Syria then - beggars cannot be choosers.

Don't they realise Luxembourg is the richest country in the world?

 

[deltic]

Don't they realise Luxembourg is the richest country in the world?

Probably not, but being such a small country will they be able to get work, will they be able to access relatives and friends.

If I had been forced to leave my country - where would I want to go? Somewhere to rebuild my life and raise my children. I wont have have done any detailed research into what country was best - I would probably follow everyone else - US is difficult to get to but is probably everyone's aspiration - on the meantime Germany is well known as being a large prosperous country with lots of job opportunities.

 

[WestCoast]

Statistically they're probably more likely to find unskilled work in Luxembourg than in most of the Eastern states of Germany, including Berlin. It's very hard to get any work if you don't speak at least decent German (maybe English for a few professional occupations) anyway. There might be opportunities for cleaning staff and suchlike. You need to do a traineeship to secure any semi-skilled work.

Luxembourgians tend to speak Luxembourgish, French, German and English and have no issue communicating in another language. There's quite a few people of French African decent and Portuguese decent that have integrated there. No idea about the labour market though, just that unemployment is low.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Probably not, but being such a small country will they be able to get work, will they be able to access relatives and friends.

If I had been forced to leave my country - where would I want to go? Somewhere to rebuild my life and raise my children. I wont have have done any detailed research into what country was best - I would probably follow everyone else - US is difficult to get to but is probably everyone's aspiration - on the meantime Germany is well known as being a large prosperous country with lots of job opportunities.

Your surmise fits with my experience on the ground, deltic. I have talked to scores of these refugees/migrants in the past 8 weeks. Most were very ill-informed: when actually in Croatia, they didn't ever realise it. I don't think many knew whether Croatia or Slovenia were real or mythical countries until they arrived in them.

the vast majority of the ones I spoke to were quite frightened, worried people, who, exactly as you say, want to start new, peaceful lives. I'd say 70% said they wanted to go to Germany as a kind of mantra.

Yes, there were some 'trouble maker' types, trying to whip up angry protests. Meanwhile, 90% of the people around them failed to show any interest.

One young IT engineer, from Deir Ezzor, in eastern Syria, stood out. When I asked him where do you want to go, he replied: Anywhere where they show respect for human rights. Anywhere where they can't kill me whenever they feel like it. (something like that, I can't swear to the precise words.)

 

[Johnuk123]

http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/10/21/refugees-from-syria-arrive-at-akrotiri/

Two boatloads of migrants came ashore at the British military base of Akrotiri Wednesday, authorities said, the first time since the migrant crisis began that migrants have landed directly on what is considered British sovereign soil.

Rather embarrassing that boatloads of potential terrorists seem to be able land on the doorstep of an active RAF base with impunity without being hindered in any way.

 

[backontrack]

It's unsurprising, however, that the newspaper reporting this has Mail in the title. Surprisingly, it's a different one.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's unsurprising, however, that the newspaper reporting this has Mail in the title. Surprisingly, it's a different one.

I'm not sure what that's got to do with anything as this is being reported fairly widely...

 

[backontrack]

Has it? Oh. I haven't noticed it...

 

[ainsworth74]

Front page on BBC News website and The Independent website right now. The Guardian also have it but it's on their UK News page rather than their front page.

 

[backontrack]

Oh...

 

[Antman]

If anybody saw Channel 4 news on Monday evening it showed the real reason for encouraging migrants, an unlimited supply of cheap human labour.

An undercover reporter filmed migrants packing fruit in appalling conditions.

 

[Johnuk123]

If anybody saw Channel 4 news on Monday evening it showed the real reason for encouraging migrants, an unlimited supply of cheap human labour.

An undercover reported filmed migrants packing fruit in appalling conditions.

I don't think anybody needs Ch 4 to tell us that, it's very clear that the CBI and others are continually banging the drum for more immigration for an entirely selfish reason.

It won't be the CBI who have to worry about housing, healthcare, schools etc. They simply want the cheapest foreign labour available and positively encourage the continual erosion of wage rates by people who will work for nearly nothing.