EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Darandio]

Not twenty-fours ago, the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, the Rt. Hon. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, MP, declared the May deal as an 'appalling deal...a kind of pseudo Brexit'.
Tonight, he says that he will back it.
I wonder what could have changed?

Both him and Rees-Mogg are snakes of the highest order. If either of them makes it to the top seat then I give up on the country.

 

[mmh]

Whatever will increase their bank balances - they dont give a stuff about anything else - especially the country - yet people think they are great.

Who thinks they're great? I don't see any evidence for that from either remain or leave supporters on this thread, or neutrals either.

Instead it seems the whole country is actually united for once, unless someone's a party activist everyone thinks they're rubbish, regardless of party allegiance or opinion on the EU.

 

[nlogax]

DUP confirmed they won't support the Withdrawal Agreement in MV3. Just when you thought it was impossible to further thicken the plot.

 

[EM2]

Who thinks they're great? I don't see any evidence for that from either remain or leave supporters on this thread, or neutrals either.

Instead it seems the whole country is actually united for once, unless someone's a party activist everyone thinks they're rubbish, regardless of party allegiance or opinion on the EU.

There are plenty of people who are fully paid up members of the cult of Rees-Mogg (and there are even more that are of Corbyn).

 

[EM2]

Oh, it gets better!
From David Blevins, Sky News senior Ireland correspondent:

BREAK: DUP leader Arlene Foster tells Sky News her party “regrets” that it is unable to support the Withdrawal Agreement while it “poses a threat to the integrity of the UK.”

So, the DUP won't support it, so pointless to try and bring it back, May won't have to resign and she's thrown herself under the bus for no reason. Rees-Mogg and Johnson also won't support it because it won't pass, that means that Jacob and Boris have shot their bolt too early, and will probably have to renege on what they've said this evening.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

What, a precise summary of historical facts turned up? Vote again or just ignore is a standard EU dirty trick.

But it wasn't a precise summary of historical facts. It was a post that contained a few carefully selected historical facts, along with completely misleading - to the point of in some cases being actually false - interpretations of those facts, plus a totally biased and misleading catchline at the bottom. And by carefully selected, I mean that it presented the results ONLY of those referenda that could be used to paint the EU in a bad light, while omitting the results of other equally relevant referenda which, had they been included, would have presented a different picture.

You can usually manage to 'prove' almost anything you want to if you carefully leave out all the historical facts that don't tend to back up your assertion, and combine that with a bit of misrepresentation - which is exactly what the FB post you seem so enamoured with does.

 

[Howardh]

The results of the votes are due any minute.

 

[Jonny]

But it wasn't a precise summary of historical facts. It was a post that contained a few carefully selected historical facts, along with completely misleading - to the point of in some cases being actually false - interpretations of those facts, plus a totally biased and misleading catchline at the bottom. And by carefully selected, I mean that it presented the results ONLY of those referenda that could be used to paint the EU in a bad light, while omitting the results of other equally relevant referenda which, had they been included, would have presented a different picture.

More to the point, in general terms, holding a referendum when you are not prepared to implement its outcome is a very dirty trick.

 

[EM2]

More to the point, in general terms, holding a referendum when you are not prepared to implement its outcome is a very dirty trick.

Under the Irish constitution, if you wish to challenge the results of a referendum, you have seven days to apply to the High Court for leave to present a referendum petition.

 

[Busaholic]

he has got a new slogan! The content of these and the majority of other posits from this poster are detached from any semblance of reality or rationality. I suspect this may be a sophisticated parody account.

Sophisticated would not be my chosen adjective!

 

[Howardh]

The results of the votes are due any minute.

Apart from throwing out no-deal, this has got us nowhere.

 

[Giugiaro]

The votes were a total disaster.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

More to the point, in general terms, holding a referendum when you are not prepared to implement its outcome is a very dirty trick.

That completely ignores the issue that you chose to believe a massively misleading facebook post without bothering to fact-check it. And then you even claimed that this massively misleading post was just presenting historical facts. If you want to be well informed, then you really need to have a serious think about where you get your news from.

 

[EM2]

Parliament has taken control of Brexit from the government by rejecting every possible Brexit and also by rejecting every possible route out of Brexit.
What an omnishambolic cluster****.

 

[Bantamzen]

Chaos reigns, surely if May's deal is not supported or allowed to be heard the brakes have to be put on and a general election or referendum held?

Sheer madness!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Apart from throwing out no-deal, this has got us nowhere.

Basically it tells us that, when faced with a multitude of different options, no one single option commands a majority. That's not really a surprising state of affairs when there are more than two options. The lesson is that simple majority voting is a daft voting system when there are multiple options.

 

[nidave]

Well that was a total waste of time.

 

[Giugiaro]

Well, they can remove the one that had the most "noes" and do it all again, then remove the worst of the 6 and proceed again... until there are just two options.

 

[Howardh]

All these have failed to get a majority, the DUP will see May's deal will fail the government's fallen apart, parliament's fallen apart; a general election won't solve anything - there's only one thing left. A penalty shoot-out referendum, the deal or remain. But parliament have to get that passed.

Has anyone any better ideas other than let's all go down the pub??

 

[Howardh]

Well, they can remove the one that had the most "noes" and do it all again, then remove the worst of the 6 and proceed again... until there are just two options.

Ken Clarke's got the closest, maybe they can work on that??

 

[Bantamzen]

Quote honestly at this point the doors to Westminster should be locked and not opened again until a strategy is agreed. I've had enough for one day, time for a snooze!

 

[nlogax]

Has anyone any better ideas other than let's all go down the pub??

I've been suggesting the pub idea for quite some time now. It's the only thing that'd get any sort of majority.

 

[Giugiaro]

Ken Clarke's got the closest, maybe they can work on that??

If it's easy for parliament to suggest a proceeding and do it on the fly... Maybe. All we need is for them to remember there's THAT option of doing the votes.

 

[DarloRich]

The votes were a total disaster.

Parliament has taken control of Brexit from the government by rejecting every possible Brexit and also by rejecting every possible route out of Brexit.
What an omnishambolic cluster****.

As I said the other day - entirely possible there is no majority for anything!

Also we will have a new PM. lets see which of the brexit fans step forward. I wonder which of them has the stones for it.

 

[Howardh]

As I said the other day - entirely possible there is no majority for anything!

Also we will have a new PM. lets see which of the brexit fans step forward. I wonder which of them has the stones for it.

A new PM can't alter the mathematics of the House. All they can do is alter/scrap the Withdrawl Bill - which I'm not sure they can - and come up with something better...and then find it still can't get a majority. I bet May now wishes, after MV2, she's simply said "referendum - my deal or remain" and got it off her back. I'm sure others would have, but she's too bloody-minded and that's been the problem all along. Red lines, wouldn't listen, look where we are. At least we're not leaving tomorrow, some comfort there.

 

[DarloRich]

A new PM can't alter the mathematics of the House. All they can do is alter/scrap the Withdrawl Bill - which I'm not sure they can - and come up with something better...and then find it still can't get a majority. I bet May now wishes, after MV2, she's simply said "referendum - my deal or remain" and got it off her back. I'm sure others would have, but she's too bloody-minded and that's been the problem all along. Red lines, wouldn't listen, look where we are. At least we're not leaving tomorrow, some comfort there.

you clearly don't get it. The Brexit boys will simply turn up and by their mere presence the evil forigns will kowtow and offer whatever they ask for!

 

[Giugiaro]

Currently, they seem to be suggesting to go with the proceeding that gathered the most positive votes. While that's an easy way of getting out of the stalemate, it isn't a very good way of doing it.

 

[Howardh]

Currently, they seem to be suggesting to go with the proceeding that gathered the most positive votes. While that's an easy way of getting out of the stalemate, it isn't a very good way of doing it.

It's basically adding the custom's union to the deal, which will be a feeding frenzy for the ERG, which would make it even sweeter. Means we wouldn't keep our freedom of movement, so a can of beans would have greater privileges than a human, but something could be worked out during the future arrangements stage (as long as we keep the ERG away from PM'ship).

 

[Kite159]

I bet Steptoe is enjoying the current chaos in the vague hope of coming to the rescue on his unicorn.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's basically adding the custom's union to the deal, which will be a feeding frenzy for the ERG, which would make it even sweeter. Means we wouldn't keep our freedom of movement, so a can of beans would have greater privileges than a human, but something could be worked out during the future arrangements stage (as long as we keep the ERG away from PM'ship).

A customs union may well sway the DUP, as the "hard border" issue is more about a customs border than a freedom of movement one. After all, I'm not aware of any proposals that would prevent EU citizens or indeed Americans or Australians or a load of other nationalities from coming to the UK on holiday, so that border being a bit porous of people hardly matters - the controls would come when people try to settle down and get a job.