EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[fowler9]

The remain world really is joyless.

Unlike the whining leavers who can't seem to decide what exactly they have won.

 

[bramling]

Unlike the whining leavers who can't seem to decide what exactly they have won.

Not sure anyone has won anything.

The electorate was asked whether it wanted to leave or remain in the EU, and a majority indicated they would prefer to leave. We all just need the politicians to get their arses in gear and deliver that, as promised.

I have a suspicion that the longer this impasse continues the more public opinion may well move and harden in favour of leave - especially if a feeling develops that Britain is being almost held hostage by the EU setup.

 

[Bromley boy]

What side did the RMT leadership (they who can do no wrong) side with at the time of the referendum?

Like a broken clock, the RMT leadership is right precisely twice per day.

Albeit for the wrong reasons, as in this case .

Best regards,

A paid up ASLEF member.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I'm really keen to know how specifically how any Leave voters life would be better after Brexit. Taking back control isn't enough - what exactly is going to benefit you as an individual?

 

[Bromley boy]

I'm really keen to know how specifically how any Leave voters life would be better after Brexit. Taking back control isn't enough - what exactly is going to benefit you as an individual?

In the case of this particular leave voter it’s knowing that the country I live in, the country whose freedom relatives of mine have died for, can remain a self determining nation state.

Does that satisfy your curiosity?

 

[EM2]

The remain world really is joyless.

Yep. Mainly because it's all going manky, and no-one can show any sort of credible plan as to why it won't.

 

[AM9]

Yep. Mainly because it's all going manky, and no-one can show any sort of credible plan as to why it won't.

So it has become a damage limitation exercise.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The remain world really is joyless.

The same could be said for either side...... Generally people who moan on the internet are joyless...

 

[Puffing Devil]

In the case of this particular leave voter it’s knowing that the country I live in, the country whose freedom relatives of mine have died for, can remain a self determining nation state.

Does that satisfy your curiosity?

No - I see sentiment, but not one benefit. Please try again - what exactly is going to benefit you as an individual?

 

[AlterEgo]

No - I see sentiment, but not one benefit. Please try again - what exactly is going to benefit you as an individual?

Why does a person’s vote have to revolve around selfish material benefit?

 

[AM9]

Why does a person’s vote have to revolve around selfish material benefit?

I agree with that. Selfishly speaking, as a retiree with a good pension living in a well-to-do area, I would personally benefit from a Conservative led no-deal exit from the EU. Since the '80s I have tended to consider the less fortunate in society in my voting intentions, hence my feeling that the poor who voted to leave the EU (as has been said to 'stick it' on the 'elite'), will be the ones who will suffer far more than the politicians and millionaires (still) egging them on and claiming that the UK has a wonderful future as a solitary country.

 

[northwichcat]

Loving the liberal remainers claiming Michael Portillo and Kenneth Clarke for their cause and thinking they'd ever be anything other than Conservative. They clearly don't remember the 80s

Who's claiming Clarke and Portillo would be non-Conservative politicians? I've seen a few posts saying we would have been better off if someone like Clarke or Portillo had been Brexit Secretary. Technically Portillo isn't a Conservative now, as he's no longer a party member. In theory if Portillo was put in the House of Lords he could undertake the role, in the same way that Lord Adonis has has a ministerial role.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Why does a person’s vote have to revolve around selfish material benefit?

Because I can see no benefit for the country, I can only assume that there must be a tangible benefit for the individual? I've yet to see a single benefit laid out. There's plenty of jingoistic rhetoric about taking back control though nobody has spelt out why we're better off out.

Please - just one concrete benefit of leaving?

 

[Bromley boy]

Because I can see no benefit for the country, I can only assume that there must be a tangible benefit for the individual? I've yet to see a single benefit laid out. There's plenty of jingoistic rhetoric about taking back control though nobody has spelt out why we're better off out.

Please - just one concrete benefit of leaving?

What’s jingoistic about wanting this country to be able to determine its own future? What a bizarre thing to say.

That is a benefit, as far as I’m concerned. I’m happy to be poorer if it means the country is no longer being dictated to by the EU.

 

[WelshBluebird]

His resignation letter says he believes three quarters of those who voted leave wouldn't be happy with the Brexit deal proposed at Chequers. (In other words he's saying 38.9% of the population will disagree with it - sounds like a good reason to go ahead with it. )

I'd love to see where he got that stat from, since no one who voted leave really knew what they were voting exactly for.

Stand down lads - no need for your bravery - we are giving the keys to Germany anyway + as white heterosexual males your kind isn’t wanted in 2018 with our #metoo generation...

Well apart from that fact that we didn't fight WW2 against Germany. We fought it against far right facism in the name of democracy. Last I checked, Germany is now a real democracy and the far right and the facists are the ones supporting Brexit, Trump and are the ones causing "our #metoo generation" to speak out against sexism, sexual assault, racism etc.

I feel a bit bad for May. She has to deliver something utterly ridiculous to a load of people who will never agree about what they wanted and at the same time try not to f*ck the country which is hard to avoid.

Na I don't. She knew what she was getting into, surely? Or is she really that incompetent that she didn't?

Loving the liberal remainers claiming Michael Portillo and Kenneth Clarke for their cause and thinking they'd ever be anything other than Conservative. They clearly don't remember the 80s

I don't think anyone is "claiming" anyone for their cause. More it just highlights how Brexit isn't a party specific issue. You could say the same about ring wing leavers having Corbyn for their "cause". Or the working class thinking the Conservative government is doing this to help them!

I would personally benefit from a Conservative led no-deal exit from the EU

No you wouldn't. The only people who would are those who have money invested in certain ways that mean they will see a nice return from it.
For the rest of us, a no deal situation would be a very bad thing.

 

[Darandio]

Na I don't. She knew what she was getting into, surely? Or is she really that incompetent that she didn't?

I think you are really giving her too much credit, she doesn't know her arse from her elbow. Take many of her cabinet appointments, they often seem like they are drawn from a hat.

 

[Howardh]

I think you are really giving her too much credit, she doesn't know her arse from her elbow. Take many of her cabinet appointments, they often seem like they are drawn from a hat.

Putting Brexit aside, I have often wondered why PM's insert ministers into job who have limited or zero qualifications for that job. Example - former health secretary jeremy Hunt...is he a qualified surgeon? Doctor then? Nope, course not, yet we put him in charge. Can Grayling drive a train, or has he qualifications in transport planning? Course not. I dread to look up the others.
We put amateurs in charge of professionals.

 

[thejuggler]

"I’m happy to be poorer if it means the country is no longer being dictated to by the EU."

Please let us all in on the details of how the EU is a dictatorship against the UK.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I’m happy to be poorer if it means the country is no longer being dictated to by the EU.

You may be. But if the referendum was "poorer but leave" rather than just "leave", I am not so convinced leave would have won!
A lot of the demographic that voted leave just cannot afford to be poorer (indeed that is one of the reasons why some voted to leave anyway!).

 

[Darandio]

"I’m happy to be poorer if it means the country is no longer being dictated to by the EU."

Please let us all in on the details of how the EU is a dictatorship against the UK.

Strange comment. If a teacher dictates to a class are they themselves then a dictator or part of a dictatorship?

 

[dosxuk]

What’s jingoistic about wanting this country to be able to determine its own future? What a bizarre thing to say.

But we always could determine our own future, as proven by the fact we could inact Article 50 in the first place.

That is a benefit, as far as I’m concerned. I’m happy to be poorer if it means the country is no longer being dictated to by the EU.

We never have been dictated to by the EU. If we were, we would be spending the Euro, driving at kilometers per hour, drinking half litres and be able to travel anywhere in the EU without needing a passport. Instead we could opt out of all these things, we could veto any decisions we didn't agree with, scrapings them entirely, and we had a rebate on our membership fees.

 

[northwichcat]

Putting Brexit aside, I have often wondered why PM's insert ministers into job who have limited or zero qualifications for that job. Example - former health secretary jeremy Hunt...is he a qualified surgeon? Doctor then? Nope, course not, yet we put him in charge. Can Grayling drive a train, or has he qualifications in transport planning? Course not. I dread to look up the others.
We put amateurs in charge of professionals.

There are qualified doctors and teachers in parliament so the question why Hunt and Hinds get positions ahead of them is a valid one. Personally I think putting someone who used to work driving trains in Grayling's role would be the wrong decision, even if there was a former train driver in parliament. Grayling's responsibility is for all transport - there shouldn't be someone with a strong bias of one form of transport over another in the role. The role occupied by Jo Johnson is the one which might suit a former railway employee.

 

[Senex]

I’m happy to be poorer if it means the country is no longer being dictated to by the EU.

But the Leave side did not tell us that we might be poorer. It was £350 million a week for the NHS and forward into the land of golden opportunities — no word about a possible down side with much less attractive features. And what when the jobs that go are those of the very people who strongly supported Brexit? I trust they will acept the outcome as a result of their choice for freedom from the EU and not start demanding support and subsidies that would be paid out to a significant ewxtent by the areas the voted to stay.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I do find it pretty weird that cabinet positions are basically just thrown around without any consideration for if the person is a good fit for the job or not.
I assume the civil service provides the expertise in the areas where required, but people in charge of deciding the direction of institutions have no real idea or experience of what is good practice or not in those areas, it is kind of worrying!
Getting a bit off topic though me thinks!

 

[northwichcat]

We never have been dictated to by the EU. If we were, we would be spending the Euro, driving at kilometers per hour, drinking half litres and be able to travel anywhere in the EU without needing a passport. Instead we could opt out of all these things, we could veto any decisions we didn't agree with, scrapings them entirely, and we had a rebate on our membership fees.

On that point it was once possible for a small number living in a trial area for the ID card introduced by the Labour government but that was a decision taken in Westminster, not one in Brussels.

It should also be remembered while you can cross a border from say Germany to Austria without showing a passport or national ID card you do need to have one or the other on you. If Austrian police ask you to produce your passport and it's in a nearby hotel in Austria they won't have a problem with that, if they ask for your passport and you say it's in a hotel in Bavaria you could be arrested for being in the country illegally.

 

[NSEFAN]

What’s jingoistic about wanting this country to be able to determine its own future? What a bizarre thing to say.

That is a benefit, as far as I’m concerned. I’m happy to be poorer if it means the country is no longer being dictated to by the EU.

I am reminded of the things said during the Scottish independence referendum. Some people argued that Scottish self-determinism is undermined by having some laws set by Westminster, because whilst there's Scottish representation there it's not 100% Scottish, meaning the Scots are having the English dictate laws to them. Only by breaking away and going truly independent would the Scots be able to have self-determination, apparently. What seemed to swing the vote was the creeping realisation that not only would Scotland be worse off in the long term, but also actually seperating would be a nightmare because of how intertwined our relationship has been. I think more people are beginning to really realise this is also the case with our EU membership.

 

[Puffing Devil]

What’s jingoistic about wanting this country to be able to determine its own future? What a bizarre thing to say.

That is a benefit, as far as I’m concerned. I’m happy to be poorer if it means the country is no longer being dictated to by the EU.

What exactly do you mean by "determine its own future" and how is that a benefit, especially as you admit you may be poorer?

 

[PHILIPE]

Putting Brexit aside, I have often wondered why PM's insert ministers into job who have limited or zero qualifications for that job. Example - former health secretary jeremy Hunt...is he a qualified surgeon? Doctor then? Nope, course not, yet we put him in charge. Can Grayling drive a train, or has he qualifications in transport planning? Course not. I dread to look up the others.
We put amateurs in charge of professionals.

And May doesn't know how to be a Prime Minister

 

[AlterEgo]

Because I can see no benefit for the country, I can only assume that there must be a tangible benefit for the individual? I've yet to see a single benefit laid out. There's plenty of jingoistic rhetoric about taking back control though nobody has spelt out why we're better off out.

Please - just one concrete benefit of leaving?

I can’t see many. But then I voted to Remain, and again that wasn’t based on what I thought I would gain or lose.

I’m amazed people are still asking the question after two years.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I can’t see many. But then I voted to Remain, and again that wasn’t based on what I thought I would gain or lose.

I’m amazed people are still asking the question after two years.

Many remainers would be more accepting of Brexit if anyone could come up with some real positives and benefits to this country compared to what we have now in the EU.

I've been asking for over two years and I still haven’t heard of one concrete reason. Plenty of headline rallying calls and misunderstandings but not one reason.