EU, Immigration and UKIP

[Antman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-30370570

Has he just been misquoted? The open door immigration policy obviously does add to traffic congestion.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Has he just been misquoted?

Why don't you watch the video and find out?

Hint: no he wasn't misquoted, that's exactly what he said. He was late because the M4 was full of immigrants.

 

[Antman]

Why don't you watch the video and find out?

Hint: no he wasn't misquoted, that's exactly what he said. He was late because the M4 was full of immigrants.

It won't play on my phone

 

[AM9]

It won't play on my phone

Maybe your phone has been hacked by UKIP to not show 'bad news'.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It won't play on my phone

Bloody Poles

 

[Busaholic]

Why don't you watch the video and find out?

Hint: no he wasn't misquoted, that's exactly what he said. He was late because the M4 was full of immigrants.

I think he was hinting that important people like him should have lanes reserved for their sole use on motorways, rather like John Prescott did on the Heathrow stretch of the M4, masquerading as a bus lane and Putin and co. do in Moscow. Only allowing three and a half hours at the weekend from (presumably) London to Port Talbot was the crux of the problem.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think he was hinting that important people like him should have lanes reserved for their sole use on motorways

Who does he think he is, Richard Madeley?

 

[starrymarkb]

I think he was hinting that important people like him should have lanes reserved for their sole use on motorways, rather like John Prescott did on the Heathrow stretch of the M4, masquerading as a bus lane and Putin and co. do in Moscow. Only allowing three and a half hours at the weekend from (presumably) London to Port Talbot was the crux of the problem.

The bus lane actually existed for another reason (and worked well at what it did).

The M4 drops from 3 lanes to 2 between J3-J2 for the Boston Manor viaduct (which can't easily be widened), which commonly jams up. So the highways agency decided to move the lane drop to J3 where a lot of traffic leaves anyway and it improved the flow

Rather then just hatch it off they worked out it could work as a bus/coach lane, giving public transport users a quicker journey into London at peak times. Of course the reaction was bad because buses were stealing space from cars. I wonder if the reaction would have been the same if it was just hatched off (like parts of the M3 are around the M25 junction)

Now it's been removed it just jams up again where the M4 drops from 3 lanes to 2 again.

 

[jon0844]

Given people can't merge in turn (and get quite angry if people dare use all available lanes and attempt to merge at the end, rather than 20 miles previous) I can see why doing away with a merging point is a good thing.

The A1(M) is about to undergo works in Hertfordshire over the coming months to change a section where 3 lanes become 2, by having one lane go at the exit before and then remain as two lanes.

Makes perfect sense, although the day people learn about merging in turn and NOT getting upset (e.g. straddling both lanes to stop people daring to pass) then perhaps we'd see a lot more free flowing traffic. It's quite crazy to see the lengthy queues through roadworks where the delay is caused purely by a lane closing and yet there isn't necessarily a large volume of traffic.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

They were, and are, definitely a thorn in the side, but "anti-establishment"? A Surrey stockbroker may be many things, but "anti-establishment" he ain't.

I meant establishment of the EU, he is certainly not anti-British establishment: I even attested such on here a few days ago.

 

[43021HST]

Why don't you watch the video and find out?

Hint: no he wasn't misquoted, that's exactly what he said. He was late because the M4 was full of immigrants.

Why didn't he just catch a ruddy train? Oh I forget he doesn't like people who speak foreign languages on public transport.

I wonder what he made of the Serpell report when it came out.

 

[Busaholic]

The bus lane actually existed for another reason (and worked well at what it did).

The M4 drops from 3 lanes to 2 between J3-J2 for the Boston Manor viaduct (which can't easily be widened), which commonly jams up. So the highways agency decided to move the lane drop to J3 where a lot of traffic leaves anyway and it improved the flow

Rather then just hatch it off they worked out it could work as a bus/coach lane, giving public transport users a quicker journey into London at peak times. Of course the reaction was bad because buses were stealing space from cars. I wonder if the reaction would have been the same if it was just hatched off (like parts of the M3 are around the M25 junction)

Now it's been removed it just jams up again where the M4 drops from 3 lanes to 2 again.

I haven't been a frequent user of the M4 for many years but I don't believe I ever saw more than one coach, and never any buses, in the special lane - plenty of taxis, though, and cars with blacked-out rear windows as well as the usual chancers. I can't think of one improvement in public transport that Prescott initiated but if you want to count that perhaps we'll allow 1/10.

 

[starrymarkb]

I haven't been a frequent user of the M4 for many years but I don't believe I ever saw more than one coach, and never any buses, in the special lane - plenty of taxis, though, and cars with blacked-out rear windows as well as the usual chancers. I can't think of one improvement in public transport that Prescott initiated but if you want to count that perhaps we'll allow 1/10.

As I said, that wasn't it's main purpose.

This explains a bit more about it
http://web.archive.org/web/20130118230627/http://www.cbrd.co.uk/indepth/m4buslane/

 

[jon0844]

Any road design that gets rid of the need to merge lanes (we simply can't merge properly in this country for some reason - mostly the belief that someone is trying to get ahead of you) is a good thing.

As I said above, they're designing a merge out of the road layout near Welwyn on the A1(M) and it's likely to have a big impact on traffic flow (in a good way!) when completed. The quicker other roads are modified the better, not going the other way and creating or re-creating pinch points.

Either that or start to put up more 'Merge in turn' notices and signs to tell people to use all lanes, so you don't have people queuing in lane 1 and 2 for 20 miles and letting their blood boil when someone actually dares to use lane 3 and 'cut in' near the closure...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Bloody Poles

Hello there, young person from "under the rickety bridge" in the Frozen North, I am one of the spokesmen for that race to which you allude. The famous 303 squadron will be seeking you out if you carry on like this...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

He was late because the M4 was full of immigrants.

I hoped that they were well behaved and kept to the hard shoulder...

 

[fowler9]

Hello there, young person from "under the rickety bridge" in the Frozen North, I am one of the spokesmen for that race to which you allude. The famous 303 squadron will be seeking you out if you carry on like this...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I hoped that they were well behaved and kept to the hard shoulder...

Hey Paul, at the risk of straying off topic I spent National Christmas Jumper Day wearing a Poland T Shirt, still got it on now. Tomorrow I'm off to watch a Polish band in Manchester with a Polish mate and his son. My last trip abroad was to Poland. My brother just got back from staying with his mate and his mates Polish wife, guess what I am saying is I've got your back.

Actually now you mention 303 Squadron the Poles have had ours for ages.

 

[St Rollox]

Has he just been misquoted? The open door immigration policy obviously does add to traffic congestion.

Hmmm, do you mean EU passport holders driving around the EU.

 

[Antman]

Hmmm, do you mean EU passport holders driving around the EU.

The UK cannot accommodate unlimited numbers from abroad, surely that is obvious?

 

[Emyr]

The UK cannot accommodate unlimited numbers from abroad, surely that is obvious?

What's abroad got to do with it?

 

[Aldaniti]

I was born in the sixties and lived through some difficult times in the seventies and eighties. For various reasons, it is my view that this country has not generally become a better place to live, which is not what you should expect in a country run by effective and competent politicians and business leaders. I have no problem with immigration per se, what I do have a problem with is uncontrolled immigration when there are already several million people in this country who are not working, not being given the opportunities to work, or are not being trained to work.

 

[Greenback]

Immigration is controlled, but there is the right of free movement within the EU, and expansion of the latter has led to more individuals having the right to travel here, live here and work here.

It's the price of being in the EU. For UKIP it's not a price worth paying. I'm not as certain as I used to be, but I still think we are better off in than out.

 

[muddythefish]

Northampton town centre is full of our east European friends - they are there every day, usually in groups standing around or sitting in cafes and coffee cars.

Shouldn't they be working ? Isn't someone checking what they are doing ?

 

[Greenback]

As far as I'm aware, there's no requirement for them to work at all, just as I can go to live in Marbella nad sit in the cafes there during the day.

As it happens, a lot of the eastern Europeans here work shifts doing crappy jobs in a food processing centre, so it's not unusual to see them out and about at various times during the day. There are also some who do cleaning jobs in the early morning and evening.

Just because someone is standing around or sitting in a cafe doesn't mean they aren't working.

 

[muddythefish]

It's obvious they are not in work - at least not working in the sense we know it.

This is not having a pop at immigrants per se because there are plenty of our lot who do the same - but they do make the town centre feel like the middle of Warsaw or somewhere and they are an intimidating presence.

And no, I'm not a Ukip supporter and yes, on the whole I favour immigration.

 

[Greenback]

It's not clear from your post why it's obvious they aren't working, sorry. Do you see the same people hanging around in the same place 24 hours a day every day?

I'm not saying all eastern Europeans are in work, some came over to work and lost their jobs when the recession hit. Many returned to wherever they'd come from, some wanted to stay here, as is their right. Others may have moved to other parts of the UK. There's always going to be people in between jobs. The vast majority of people who come to this country from the EU do so to work.

 

[jon0844]

Just because someone is standing around or sitting in a cafe doesn't mean they aren't working.

Because of the shifts a lot of them work, they may even have to hang around in order to get access to their room - which someone else is in sleeping before their shift.

Many businesses are using eastern European workers like slaves, which suits them (and helps our economy) because the money is still greater than at home.

As and when their economies grow, you can be sure that just as you wouldn't see someone from France or Germany come to work for minimum wage and shack up two or more to a room, eventually even those from Poland and Romania will refuse to come.

Goodness knows what happens to our economy then. These businesses that took advantage for so long will lose a stream of workers, and will either have to stump up or go out of business (which will then lead to mass unemployment, given how many large employers are almost exclusively employing people from outside the UK).

That said, a friend who has an allotment but hasn't been there for a while discovered a young Polish male sleeping in her shed earlier this week. He'd been there for a few weeks and was in quite a state. He had been made redundant somewhere around Maidenhead and told to come to Hatfield for work at Ocado or Arla, but neither were hiring. He's now trying to go home to Poland, using some money he'd managed to save up.

 

[fowler9]

One of my Polish friends is a taxi driver, as such you can often see him mooching around Liverpool city centre during the day because he lives in the city centre he works more in the evenings.

I was with a Spanish friend once when someone called him an effing Kosovan and told him to go home. He is probably part of the reason loads of people were calling the Pete Price radio program saying the city was over run with Kosovans who all got given cars and mobile phones by the government which is just ludicrous, for starters there are naff all Kosovans in Liverpool. My friend worked for a Spanish company providing jobs to many English workers.

I worked with an English lad who complained that Eastern Europeans where taking construction jobs off English workers, his dad ran a building company employing a lot of Eastern Europeans.If Eastern Europeans are taking jobs off English workers then his dad was the problem for employing them for less money.

We should look at the likes of 303 Squadron in world war 2 and be grateful Poles still want to come here despite how we shafted them after that. There is a 10 minute clip on Youtube called Polish Flyboys over Britain 1940 which should give you at least one reason why we should be more grateful. The leading fighter Ace in the Battle Of Britain was Josef Frantisek from the Czech Republic who flew with Polish 303 Squadron. Perhaps we should wind our necks in before knocking Eastern Europeans coming over here.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Poles coming over here, winning the Battle of Britain, who do they think they are

 

[muddythefish]

It's not clear from your post why it's obvious they aren't working, sorry. Do you see the same people hanging around in the same place 24 hours a day every day?

I'm not saying all eastern Europeans are in work, some came over to work and lost their jobs when the recession hit. Many returned to wherever they'd come from, some wanted to stay here, as is their right. Others may have moved to other parts of the UK. There's always going to be people in between jobs. The vast majority of people who come to this country from the EU do so to work.

1. Yes
2. I agree. But this lot are different.

 

[Emyr]

Northampton town centre is full of our east European friends - they are there every day, usually in groups standing around or sitting in cafes and coffee cars.

Shouldn't they be working ? Isn't someone checking what they are doing ?

You should be grateful, if they're spending so much time in cafes and coffee bars, they'll be contributing to the local economy.