Error 57 at St Pancras

[Nothematic]

Been annoying me for a while so figured I'd finally ask some experts. I regularly buy an Anytime Day Return from Cambridge North to London Blackfriars. I usually take GN from CMB -> KGX and then walk over to St Pancras, and get TL from St Pancras to Blackfriars.

My ticket scans fine at CMB, but will only let me scan out at KGX from the barriers at platforms 9/10. At the other barriers (sometimes GN using platform 8) I get error 57.

I then walk over to St Pancras, and *always* get error 57 trying to go through. Scans fine at Blackfriars.

On the way back it's the same. Scan fine at Blackfriars, error 57 at St Pancras, error 57 at KGX if not using platforms 9/10, scan fine at CMB.

One thing I have found is that *sometimes* scanning the outbound ticket on the way back lets me out of St Pancras (why?!) but that doesn't work at KGX.

Does anyone know what on earth is going on here? Why does it work at some barriers at KGX and not others, and why can I never get through St Pancras (except when it lets me scan my outbound ticket to get out on the return..)

Thanks!

 

[Snow1964]

Error 57 is location not covered by pre paid ticket.

The Kings Cross allowing you out of platform 9/10 but not platform 8 is basically a complete lack of joined up thinking and communication by the team who programmed the barriers, they clearly didn't check the platforms useage, if your train regularly uses platform 8.

Logically if they have done some barriers then there can be no technical reason for not doing those by platform 8 too, as it's same station.

 

[island]

57 means that the barrier thinks your ticket isn't valid at this location – in effect that ticket combination hasn't been programmed into the ticket barriers correctly.

Try using a magnetic stripe ticket rather than barcode ticket or smartcard if the option is available to you.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Error 57 is location not covered by pre paid ticket.

The Kings Cross allowing you out of platform 9/10 but not platform 8 is basically a complete lack of joined up thinking and communication by the team who programmed the barriers, they clearly didn't check the platforms useage, if your train regularly uses platform 8.

Logically if they have done some barriers then there can be no technical reason for not doing those by platform 8 too, as it's same station.

Strange as all the barriers are programmed by GTR

 

[CyrusWuff]

Strange as all the barriers are programmed by GTR

If the barriers in the main train shed are on a separate SCU with a different NLC (as is the case at some LU stations), one possibility is that Cubic have only updated the config for the Suburban SCU, or it could be a case of one (or more) gates not taking the updated data.

 

[Haywain]

If the barriers in the main train shed are on a separate SCU with a different NLC

They aren't, or certainly weren't in the past.

 

[Wallsendmag]

They aren't, or certainly weren't in the past.

Pretty sure nothings changed yet, however come Oval

 

[DelW]

If the barriers in the main train shed are on a separate SCU with a different NLC (as is the case at some LU stations), one possibility is that Cubic have only updated the config for the Suburban SCU, or it could be a case of one (or more) gates not taking the updated data.

Something Control Unit??
Something Logic Controller??

or something completely different?

 

[MrJeeves]

Something Logic Controller??

NLC is National Location Code

National Location Code - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Failed Unit]

Error 57 is location not covered by pre paid ticket.

The Kings Cross allowing you out of platform 9/10 but not platform 8 is basically a complete lack of joined up thinking and communication by the team who programmed the barriers, they clearly didn't check the platforms useage, if your train regularly uses platform 8.

Logically if they have done some barriers then there can be no technical reason for not doing those by platform 8 too, as it's same station.

Considering how frequently Cambridge trains use the rest of the station is in indeed very odd. With St Pancras also blocked it seems like GTR are expecting everyone to use Thameslink.

It is frustrating how often this kind of thing happens. It is like going to Moorgate, they expect everyone to change at Finsbury Park so the barriers never accept the ticket at Kings Cross.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Something Control Unit??
Something Logic Controller??

or something completely different?

Station Control Unit. My apologies. Essentially the local server for Cubic gates at a given location.

For stations where TfL provide the back office for Oyster and/or Contactless acceptance there will also be a separate Local Barcode Server (LBS) if the gates are fitted with barcode readers.

 

[The exile]

These are the sort of daily niggles that a regulator should be giving companies notice to sort within a defined period (I’d say 7 days), but no doubt adding to the idea that travel by train is a confusing hassle is considered too trivial to bother about.

 

[bikesntrains77]

If you're buying a Cambridge to London Blackfriars ticket, my understanding is that these are issued to London Thameslink, which BRFares defines as:

Flow Origin​	7022 CAMBRIDGE​
Flow Destination​	4452 LONDON THAMESLNK​
Fares Group​	0577 FARRINGDON​	1555 LONDON ST PANCRS​	5121 CITY THAMESLINK​	5246 ELEPHANT & CSTLE​
	1444 LONDON EUSTON​	5112 LONDON BLKFRIARS​	5148 LONDON BRIDGE​

Could the issue be that this ticket isn't actually valid to exit at KGX or enter at STP... but barriers aren't clever enough to facilitate an interchange?

 

[CyrusWuff]

If you're buying a Cambridge to London Blackfriars ticket, my understanding is that these are issued to London Thameslink, which BRFares defines as:

Flow Origin​	7022 CAMBRIDGE​
Flow Destination​	4452 LONDON THAMESLNK​
Fares Group​	0577 FARRINGDON​	1555 LONDON ST PANCRS​	5121 CITY THAMESLINK​	5246 ELEPHANT & CSTLE​
	1444 LONDON EUSTON​	5112 LONDON BLKFRIARS​	5148 LONDON BRIDGE​

Could the issue be that this ticket isn't actually valid to exit at KGX or enter at STP... but barriers aren't clever enough to facilitate an interchange?

Good point from a fares point of view. But I'd expect the gateline at both stations to be setup to accept London Thameslink tickets to avoid the need to let people through or issue zero fare excesses all the time.

 

[Flying Snail]

These are the sort of daily niggles that a regulator should be giving companies notice to sort within a defined period (I’d say 7 days), but no doubt adding to the idea that travel by train is a confusing hassle is considered too trivial to bother about.

Days! There are ticket types that have systematically not worked at barriers for decades.

It is perfectly clear that not one damn is given if rail users are inconvenienced by these sort of issues, if the railway deems it too difficult or too much effort to sort it out then they are perfectly content for the system to work some of the time for most people and the rest should just put up with being given crap service.

 

[Haywain]

Could the issue be that this ticket isn't actually valid to exit at KGX or enter at STP... but barriers aren't clever enough to facilitate an interchange?

London Thameslink tickets are accepted to enter and exit at St Pancras - there would be permanent utter chaos if that were not the case as tickets from Bedford and MML stations southwards to London are only issued to that destination unless they are for travel only on EMR.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Days! There are ticket types that have systematically not worked at barriers for decades.

It is perfectly clear that not one damn is given if rail users are inconvenienced by these sort of issues, if the railway deems it too difficult or too much effort to sort it out then they are perfectly content for the system to work some of the time for most people and the rest should just put up with being given crap service.

There's a limited capacity for what can be done in the gateline configuration, especially for magstripe tickets. There may also be Revenue Protection reasons why you might not want to accept certain tickets without manual checks.

But there's also the fact that TOCs keep creating new ticket types. To do things proactively rather than reactively you'd likely need to have someone employed specifically to handle configuration changes.

 

[Hadders]

If you're buying a Cambridge to London Blackfriars ticket, my understanding is that these are issued to London Thameslink, which BRFares defines as:

Flow Origin​	7022 CAMBRIDGE​
Flow Destination​	4452 LONDON THAMESLNK​
Fares Group​	0577 FARRINGDON​	1555 LONDON ST PANCRS​	5121 CITY THAMESLINK​	5246 ELEPHANT & CSTLE​
	1444 LONDON EUSTON​	5112 LONDON BLKFRIARS​	5148 LONDON BRIDGE​

Could the issue be that this ticket isn't actually valid to exit at KGX or enter at STP... but barriers aren't clever enough to facilitate an interchange?

Tickets issued to London Thameslink are absolutely valid to enter and exit at Kings Cross.

 

[Haywain]

It is like going to Moorgate, they expect everyone to change at Finsbury Park so the barriers never accept the ticket at Kings Cross.

What is this supposed to mean? Tickets valid to Moorgate will have been issued to London Terminals, and are equally valid at King's Cross and will be accepted there.

 

[Adam Williams]

But there's also the fact that TOCs keep creating new ticket types. To do things proactively rather than reactively you'd likely need to have someone employed specifically to handle configuration changes.

Or y'know, do what the rest of the industry manages to do, and update automatically from the source data daily (I know, I'm preaching to the choir) :P

 

[CyrusWuff]

Or y'know, do what the rest of the industry manages to do, and update automatically from the source data daily (I know, I'm preaching to the choir) :P

I'm sure TOCs would love to not have to undertake manual processes to maintain their gate configuration, but when you're dealing with a company that somehow manages to take six weeks to distribute updated fares across the LU network...

 

[talldave]

I'm sure TOCs would love to not have to undertake manual processes to maintain their gate configuration, but when you're dealing with a company that somehow manages to take six weeks to distribute updated fares across the LU network...

So the TOCs bought technically under-specified equipment from a supplier who's useless. I know who I'd be directing the pointy finger of blame at. Passengers don't care, they just want their expensive ticket to work where it's meant to work.

 

[Snow1964]

So the TOCs bought technically under-specified equipment from a supplier who's useless. I know who I'd be directing the pointy finger of blame at. Passengers don't care, they just want their expensive ticket to work where it's meant to work.

It's also a reflection of a (very) weak regulator, who doesn't seem to care if an expensive ticket doesn't buy a smooth journey without permanent ticket gate problems.

They should insist that gates are updated within say 14 days (ideally quicker) in cases like this.

 

[Haywain]

So the TOCs bought technically under-specified equipment from a supplier who's useless. I know who I'd be directing the pointy finger of blame at. Passengers don't care, they just want their expensive ticket to work where it's meant to work.

They are also, effectively, a monopoly supplier because of the contracts they hold with TfL for the Oyster and contactless processing.

 

[Hadders]

Even if tickets do work the barriers you then get the silly situation where they can get set to reject railcard discounted tickets - Stevenage I'm looking at you! I don't even try the barriers now, I just go to the staff member who inevitably waves me through without even a asking for my railcard.

I don't mind something like this for a specific revenue block but it shouldn't be the default position. It sounds great but actually results in fewer checks taking place.

 

[island]

So the TOCs bought technically under-specified equipment from a supplier who's useless. I know who I'd be directing the pointy finger of blame at. Passengers don't care, they just want their expensive ticket to work where it's meant to work.

TOCs don't have a choice. There's exactly one type of gate that accepts Oyster.

 

[Failed Unit]

What is this supposed to mean? Tickets valid to Moorgate will have been issued to London Terminals, and are equally valid at King's Cross and will be accepted there.

This means if you are travelling from Cambridge - Moorgate and you chose to go via Kings Cross - you get a lot of grief. The barriers on the underground always reject them and some of the staff don’t know you are allowed to do it. It is the same problem if you change at Highbury and use the tube to exit at Kings Cross.

 

[talldave]

TOCs don't have a choice. There's exactly one type of gate that accepts Oyster.

Everything's solvable if someone cares. Stop paying the supplier's extortionate maintenance contract until they get their act together. Or more importantly, get performance clauses in the contract in the first place.

The rail industry is great with excuses whilst treating its customers like criminals at the first sign of any ticket irregularity. And so we blunder on in "we've always done it that way" mode.

 

[Haywain]

This means if you are travelling from Cambridge - Moorgate and you chose to go via Kings Cross - you get a lot of grief. The barriers on the underground always reject them and some of the staff don’t know you are allowed to do it. It is the same problem if you change at Highbury and use the tube to exit at Kings Cross.

So nothing to do with the barriers at King's Cross NR station, which is what was being discussed.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So nothing to do with the barriers at King's Cross NR station, which is what was being discussed.

Directly no, but indirectly there could well be certain commonalities, so as well as incorrectly programmed barriers, barrier staff having not been properly briefed?