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Entry to the US
- Thread starter brad465
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We spent two weeks last October in NYC and Hudson Valley and I can't recall border control as it was so simple. And I had two phones and a laptop..
Very relaxing. Very enjoyable
nlogax
Established Member
In the last year or so my JFK T8 immigration experiences have gone from 3+ hours (late Saturday evening arrival) to 10 minutes (first BA arrival on a weekday + MPC app). In short MPC is the way to get through quickly if you're eligible to use it.
ABB125
Established Member
In about a month's time I'll be going to New York with my parents. We're flying via Canada both ways (because it was cheap... and I can indulge my inner plans enthusiast with some "fun size" planes on the hop across the border!). Am I right in thinking that this means we will go through US pre clearance at Montreal (in our case)? It's a through Air Canada flight with under 2 hours at Montreal, but I assume that takes into account going through pre clearance etc?
You will need to legally enter Canada; there are nonairside transfers at Canadian airports. There is no airside transfer so be prepared for the immigration into Canada as well as customs, and be sure to have obtained your ETA else you won't be allowed on the plane. US preclearance is in Montreal.
Entry into Canada is very variable and you will either find it a breeze or a pain in my experience! There never seems to be a middle ground.
Yes. You'll need to clear customs and immigration in Canada - meaning you have to complete an eTA application before arrival. Montreal does have pre-clearance and so you'll arrive in the USA as a domestic passenger. Usual US entry requirements apply, be that with a visa or under the Visa Waiver Scheme.
Willing to be corrected as these things change but I thought Montreal and Vancouver offered US connection areas, where you can skip some of the Canadian formalities on through international to US tickets if your luggage is transferred and you go straight to US pre-clearance? Doesn't work the other way US to International where you have to clear Canadian customs. Need ETA for both that is.
I've been through Canadian immigration more times than I can remember but only one really slow experience and one really surly one!
Well it seems we are both right and both wrong depending on circumstances. Here's the real answer: https://www.admtl.com/en-CA/guide/landing-in-montreal/connecting-flights
It depends if the airline offers luggage transfer. Air Canada do, if that assists the OP! (Bizarrely this doesn't appear to be well advertised - first I'd heard of it and I've declined some AC itineraries to the USA for this reason)
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Ah, okay. I didn't realise that. I've only flown through Toronto. Admittedly, most recently I wasn't on a through ticket to the US so had to collect my luggage anyway.
ABB125
Established Member
Thanks very much - that matches with what I was hoping would be the case! Canadian eTA was already on the to do list along with an ESTA.
If I remember I'll report back on how the process goes
With a through ticket they will put you on the next flight if you are delayed at US preclearance.
I believe entering Canada in order to go to US preclearance is a separate process to entering Canada normally, since you can't freely exit from the US secure area. They won't bother asking you lots of questions about your plans in Canada like Canadian immigration otherwise does - unless they suspect you might be rejected from entering the US.
Interesting news related to the above (though unlikely to affect your trip), the US ambassador to Canada has hinted that pre-clearance may be under threat:
nlogax
Established Member
A reminder - if you need to obtain an ESTA (new or renewal) you've got little time to take advantage of the current $21 fee. From September 30th it goes up to $40.
nanstallon
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I agree. I went to the USA in 1980, and to be fair I found the immigration process lengthy but the officials were friendly and courteous. I had a great time there, but it was a different age. Although I'd love to see the heritage operations in Colorado, I just wouldn't want to visit a fascist state. Canada is much nicer!
I refuse to believe that I'm the only person here who has been sent to Secondary Inspection when arriving into the USA. I managed that and this was while Biden was in power!
Last year in June (therefore many months before Trump was re-elected) I went with my family (dad, mum, brother) to see relatives in California. I was returning home after 10 days (as I was not allowed more than 6 days of leave from work), while the others stayed a few more days.
As my dad had PRM assistance, we got to skip the main queue in the immigration hall. All of us were asked the standard questions about purpose of visit, place of residence, date of departure etc and all except my dad had to give fingerprints.
My passport was put into a security case and the officer took me to a waiting room, while my passport was handed to other officers behind a desk. My brother went with me into the waiting room (only one other person allowed to join me) and my parents had to wait anxiously in the baggage hall. After about 20 minutes I was called to go into an interview room (on my own, my brother had to remain in the waiting room).
Some of the questions I was asked in the interview, which lasted 10-15 minutes:
After the interview, I was asked to return to the waiting room. After another maybe 10 minutes, my passport was returned and I was free to enter the USA.
I'd say it was a combination of returning earlier and having a lot more stamps in my passport, compared to my family, that got me. I went through immigration with my family, but as I was on a separate flight booking to the rest of them, effectively I was not travelling with them even if we shared the same outward flight, and I should have gone through immigration separately. The interview itself went very smoothly, definitely helped by the officer I got as every country has border officers who go out of their way to make you slip up. I was able to answer the questions confidently without hesitation, far better than a lot of the job interviews I've been to! One thing my dad has drilled into me when dealing with the authorities, is to answer truthfully but also only to give the exact amount of information asked for, which I feel helped me a lot here.
Has it put me off from returning today? Not really, as long as I ensure that I don't break the ESTA restrictions and my itinerary is watertight so I can answer all questions confidently, although I'd prefer to use the pre-clearance facility in Dublin if it works out for my trip.
Last year in June (therefore many months before Trump was re-elected) I went with my family (dad, mum, brother) to see relatives in California. I was returning home after 10 days (as I was not allowed more than 6 days of leave from work), while the others stayed a few more days.
As my dad had PRM assistance, we got to skip the main queue in the immigration hall. All of us were asked the standard questions about purpose of visit, place of residence, date of departure etc and all except my dad had to give fingerprints.
My passport was put into a security case and the officer took me to a waiting room, while my passport was handed to other officers behind a desk. My brother went with me into the waiting room (only one other person allowed to join me) and my parents had to wait anxiously in the baggage hall. After about 20 minutes I was called to go into an interview room (on my own, my brother had to remain in the waiting room).
Some of the questions I was asked in the interview, which lasted 10-15 minutes:
- Address of where I was staying and information about the person who I was staying with.
- My employment situation in the UK.
- Why my ESTA application had an earlier return date than the rest of my family.
- My Pakistani dual-citizenship, if I was carrying any ID cards or passports from there, and if there were any issues preventing me or my family from visiting Pakistan if we wanted to.
- Any past travel to the nine countries that leave you ineligible for the Visa Waiver Program.
- My travel history according to the stamps in my passport, which were mostly from the Schengen area (Brexit means Brexit!) but I also had travelled to Tunisia in 2023, which drew questions about any travel to various Middle Eastern and North African countries.
After the interview, I was asked to return to the waiting room. After another maybe 10 minutes, my passport was returned and I was free to enter the USA.
I'd say it was a combination of returning earlier and having a lot more stamps in my passport, compared to my family, that got me. I went through immigration with my family, but as I was on a separate flight booking to the rest of them, effectively I was not travelling with them even if we shared the same outward flight, and I should have gone through immigration separately. The interview itself went very smoothly, definitely helped by the officer I got as every country has border officers who go out of their way to make you slip up. I was able to answer the questions confidently without hesitation, far better than a lot of the job interviews I've been to! One thing my dad has drilled into me when dealing with the authorities, is to answer truthfully but also only to give the exact amount of information asked for, which I feel helped me a lot here.
Has it put me off from returning today? Not really, as long as I ensure that I don't break the ESTA restrictions and my itinerary is watertight so I can answer all questions confidently, although I'd prefer to use the pre-clearance facility in Dublin if it works out for my trip.
There are no fascist states in the US. Wiping out a country because of its current politics is just as insular as the views you disagree with. Americans are the friendliest nation on earth. Visit with an open mind, respect the views of the people you meet, and if you really can't do that then yes don't go.
I posted my experience earlier in the thread. I've done about 200+ visits to the US and been sent to secondary a few times. Once (ages ago) was because I share the exact name and date of birth of a serious criminal (I googled afterwards and it was a bit of an eye-opener...), and a couple more times for random reasons, the most intensive of which involved a phone search. Probably a total of 5 times, but many of them quite minor secondaries.
While I agree about questioning designed to trip you up (eg: "I'm visiting X my own" → 10 questions later → "and who are you meeting here?"), they would only trip up a dishonest traveler and overall I felt they were looking for reasons to admit me and confirm my reason for visiting.
It's important to remember that the presumption of innocence does not apply at borders, all visitors potentially need to have access to information proving the following, and this is not unique to the US:
- Proof you're likely to return home / have a return ticket / strong ties to the UK
- Proof you won't work, for money or favours, while in the US / have full funds for your trip / have all accommodation booked / have a reasonable itinerary for what you'll be doing during your trip
- Proof you won't commit criminal activity while in the US
- Travel history consistent with visiting the US, not trying to live there by proxy (out for at least as much time as in)
This lack of presumption of innocence is why earlier advice in this thread to present an empty burner phone struck me as so misguided.
They really don't want tourists to visit, do they?
The message it sends is "we don't want you, go away". It's clearly not just an inflationary adjustment, but something else.
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Elwyn
Member
The UK equivalent of the ESTA is the ETA which costs £16 which seems fair enough. However the UK also charges £127 for a single visit visa, and £848 for a multi visit visa valid for 5 years. That must put a few visitors off.
Of course until recently it was £0.
If they need to raise funds for operating the border, it seems to me that an extra surcharge on the flight price - for all passengers - would be a fairer and less discriminatory way of doing it, and I say that for all countries which use such a scheme. It would mean citizens of a given country would have to contribute too ... but then again as it's "their" border being funded, theoretically they benefit from it so that could be considered fair.
I don't visit the US myself and have no interest in doing so, but if I was minded to visit, a US$40 fee wouldn't put me off, even though I don't like it.
In my experience most people feel the same way. In fact I have met several people who prefer to keep their ESTA "up to date" just in case they suddenly decide to book travel to the US, meaning that they never take advantage of the full validity period of each payment.
If it increased to $100, that might put off people going for one-off short trips, or it might even inspire people to visit more frequently to "maximise the value" of the fee.
New Zealand recently increased their travel authorisation fee to NZ$117 for most visitors who don't require a full visa, but it doesn't appear to have affected tourist numbers so far. Most visitors would spend a long time there. I go for short trips (sometimes as little as one day), but I don't have to pay this fee.
I haven't found the UK fee to specifically put anyone off visiting the UK either - if they choose not to visit the UK it tends to be because of multiple factors, including the fact that visiting 4 Schengen countries in one trip is easier than 3 Schengen countries + UK.
Or just fund it from general taxation since it "benefits" everyone.
Well, if the funding model is based on user charges, the "users" of the border are those arriving while APD only applies to non-transiting departures.
But apart from exceptional circumstances, almost every visitor leaves the country by the same mode so they pay the APD on exit.
APD is only really paid by people using miles and points to get free/cheaper air tickets, as otherwise it's just bundled into the total fare. In many cases the APD just reduces the airline's revenue instead of being an additional cost to the passenger.
People doing a multi-country Europe tour may choose to fly long-haul into the UK then depart by train or short-haul flight precisely because they think it will save on APD, which may not always be the reality. I doubt that's particularly exceptional.
I have taken unnecessary flights from the UK to Spain/Finland/Greece and back to the UK prior to a long-haul, for the purpose of avoiding APD (but also because it is overall cheaper than flying out of the UK on the same long-haul flight only).
Indeed, I tend to start all of my visits to the US from Inverness as a similar exemption to paying APD is applied.
We are getting off topic however, so I’ll try and bring it back in! I had absolutely no trouble entering the US last year through JFK T4. The terminal seemed very quiet, and I was surprised to be one of the only ones on my flight using the MPC app. I’ll be landing in T8 next year so it will be interesting to compare the experience!
nlogax
Established Member
A couple of 'informed sources' online suggest the price rise is to help fund efforts to, er, boost tourism. No. Me either.
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I fear the cat's out of the bag with that one. The relatively few MPC users getting through immigration first won't have gone unnoticed by T8's massive queues and eventually most will cotton on.
Indeed. It would mean visitors don't pay it, of course, but perhaps that's actually fair.
It may be just me, but the way I see it is that the border "benefits" (in the view of some) those who reside in a country, so the people who should pay for it should be the residents, not the tourists. I realise even $40 won't break the bank, but from an ethical point of view you could argue that if residents want a hard border, they should pay in full for that hard border out of their taxes. (And yes, I'd be quite happy to see my income tax raised by a likely very small amount to fund the border, rather than charging visitors £16).
Of course, other airport duties/taxes, to fund the general operations of the airport, should continue to be paid by everyone.
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Tourist taxes aren't really meant to be fair, since nations don't owe anything to tourists — it just matters whether you can get people to pay it without losing too much tourism. It's the same as complaining that resort fees for hotels or baggage fees for airline fees aren't fair and should be in the headline price; they're not, but visitors are easy prey, everyone does it, and unlike sketchy hotels and airlines countries can't be regulated into desisting. In this case someone might (economically speaking, "will") pay a £275 return flight to the US, then begrudgingly pay the $40 when they remember; whereas they would have balked at a £305 fare.
The bigger issue I have with the US's fee increase is that countries often copy each other. I'm 'meh' about the US going from $20 to $40, but as a result we can expect the UK's ETA to become £30, the EU's ETIAS to be €35, etc. Residents are exempt from their own country's fee, but that's also the fee from which they would get the most value in terms of trips. I do a lot of travelling and probably spend a few hundred pounds a year on these sorts of nonsense charges.
In a strict legal sense, no. But in a "they've chosen to come here and give us their money and it would be really nice if they told their friends to come too and, in the cases of senior execs in companies, have a favourable opinion of us such that they direct business our way", yes.
ABB125
Established Member
I went through LAX early afternoon (local time) today. Took no more than half an hour from plane doors opening to me being at the (incredibly chaotic) terminal ring road thing*, with no attempt to go quickly and a toilet stop as well. I did make use of the MPC app though! The "normal" queue was rather long (I think several European-origin flights had just arrived), but did look like it was moving relatively smoothly.
Interestingly, I was fingerprinted despite having visited the US before - is this common? (Could it be related to the fact that I naturally look "suspicious", am terrible at explaining coherently what my plan is (admittedly in this case I'm mostly making it up as I go along!) and am in what I suspect is a target age group? The CBP officer was very keen to know who was paying for my trip, and subsequently how I had enough money to pay for such a trip...)
In summary, slightly more questioning than I was expecting but a shorter overall process.
Edit: my passport was not stamped - last time (Feb 2020, also my first time in the US) it was
*It then took another hour to get a bus to the metro station, manage to buy a TAP card, and then wait for the next train on the route I wanted!
Interestingly, I was fingerprinted despite having visited the US before - is this common? (Could it be related to the fact that I naturally look "suspicious", am terrible at explaining coherently what my plan is (admittedly in this case I'm mostly making it up as I go along!) and am in what I suspect is a target age group? The CBP officer was very keen to know who was paying for my trip, and subsequently how I had enough money to pay for such a trip...)
In summary, slightly more questioning than I was expecting but a shorter overall process.
Edit: my passport was not stamped - last time (Feb 2020, also my first time in the US) it was
*It then took another hour to get a bus to the metro station, manage to buy a TAP card, and then wait for the next train on the route I wanted!
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