Great - thanks for this.
Point 1 was mainly around if they withdraw it and escalate it to legal action my risk if I'm wrong is much higher. Right now my worst-case is just to pay it and try and claim it back.
I am drafting a letter now which I will send to them over the weekend, I will send it to both companies.
What sort of tone should I take with them? Obviously I will keep it factual and polite, but do I:
- Inform them that the UPFN was issued erroneously and is not valid, based on attached ticket combination?
- Explain how the tickets are valid, or let them tell me why it's not?
- Ask them why I was issued a UPFN, I can't imagine the TM took down the ticket I had, how can they write a UPFN without specifying the real tickets held by the customer?
- Copy the relevant routing points and map from the NRG and attach it to 'show my working', or leave that bit up to them?
- Request/require any written confirmation that is is valid rather than them just dropping the UPFN without admission?
- Ask very nicely that they drop the UPFN rather than stating the fact
- 'Offer' to resolve it amicably now to save 'further costs' arising?
I would say something like:
To whom It May Concern,
On (date) I travelled on the (traintime) from St Pancras to Leicester.
I held the following tickets, which were valid for the complete journey under the terms of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:
* London Travelcard Zones 1-6 Weekly Season ticket, held on an Oyster Card
* An Anytime Day Return (or whatever) from A to B Route Z (as applicable)
* An Anytime Day Return (or whatever) from C to D Route Y (as applicable)
* An Anytime Day Return (or whatever) from E to F Route X (as applicable)
I had purchased these tickets at <station> on <date>. I explained to the station staff that these tickets were valid on the <traintime> from St Pancras to Leicester under the National Rail Conditions of Carriage and the rules provided in the National Routeing Guide, and I was issued with a reservation for the <traintime> service.
On board the train a member of East Midlands Trains staff, a <Mr. Jones> claimed that my tickets were not valid and that I would have to buy a new ticket for £77.
I informed him that my tickets were valid, and attempted to show <Mr. Jones> a copy of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage and the National Routeing Guide, which demonstrated this.
<Mr. Jones> refused to read any of my supporting documentation, and said that he had been doing the job for 22 years and had therefore no need to read any rules.
Having refused to read my documents, <Mr. Jones> told me that I needed to purchase a new ticket. As I held a valid combination of tickets in accordance with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage Condition 19, I declined to do so.
He then proceeded to issue an 'Unpaid Fares Notice', which i declined to sign as I held a combination of tickets that was valid for my journey.
The guard claimed that my tickets were not valid for the following reasons:
* Oyster Cards are not valid on East Midlands Trains services, as per signage at St Pancras station.
Reply: Any such signage is misleading and should be removed. An Oyster Card is a form of electronic ticket in accordance with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage and the supplemental Oyster Conditions of Use on National Rail Services. In particular, in the latter document at 1.3 note: 'All Train Companies operating services into the London Fare Zones Area accept valid Travelcards issued on Oyster'.
A valid travelcard is a valid travelcard, whether it is issued on paper or as an Oyster card, and travelcards are valid on all East Midlands Services, when used in a valid combination of tickets in accordance with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage Condition 19.
* the train did not stop at the points where my tickets switched from one ticket to another
Reply: The National Rail Conditions of Carriage at 19(c) provide:
"You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets unless special conditions prohibit their use in this way. The Ticket Seller will, if you ask, advise you whether you can use a Zonal Ticket in combination with another ticket.
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another;
OR
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not. "
In this case 19(c) applies - there is no requirement for the train to call at the station where the ticket changes from one to another, because one of the tickets was a season ticket, namely a London Travelcard.
* the ticket <E to F> was not valid because the train was not travelling from E to F.
This ticket was valid, as shown to <Mr. Jones> because the National Routeing Guide provides that you can travel from E to F via points G, H, I and J.
Under the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, section 16,
"You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use."
This ticket <E to F> was therefore valid from I to J.
--
Having suffered such distressing treatment on my outbound journey from St Pancras, before returning from Leicester, I went to the ticket office there and they issued me with an 'Authority to Travel', which confirmed that my tickets were valid between Leicester and St Pancras. I have enclosed a copy of this.
I am writing to you therefore to withdraw this Unpaid Fares Notice, which should not have been issued. I also request you address the training issues with respect to your staff, in particular the claim that Oyster Cards are not valid on East Midlands trains.
I ask that you act within the next 14 days from the date of this letter, in order to avoid escalation and further costs for both parties.
Regards,
Derby
PS. RJ might know the best address/name to address this to?
