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EMT December 2008 timetable

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A0

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I have to say my understanding was as follows:

Wellingborough and Kettering would retain an off peak service of two trains per hour, one would go on to Mkt Harborough, Leicester and beyond.

The other would be the Corby one, however if the Corby service couldn't start at day 1, then it would start / terminate at Kettering for the interim.

Recent experience suggests that most London bound trains are fairly full by the time they reach Kettering / Wellingborough, so if a train is starting at Kettering - this should mean better odds of getting a seat at either station. And matters shouldn't get much worse when Corby comes on line.
 
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Mojo

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Please don't blame EMT! Rolling stock reallocation is mostly down to the DfT. The improved service on the Severn Beach Line was delayed until May this year (originally due to start in December) because of a delay by the DfT in allocating rolling stock elsewhere to FGW to enable a reshuffle to happen.
 

222001

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332 > 444

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Wheres the 'fast from Chesterfield' Master Cutler service, seems like it goes to Notts and reverses to STP, AFAIK The Master Cutler was staying in the new timetable....
 

222001

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Wheres the 'fast from Chesterfield' Master Cutler service, seems like it goes to Notts and reverses to STP, AFAIK The Master Cutler was staying in the new timetable....

They are keeping the name but now it will call at Derby and Leicester too. Not quite sure exactly which service it is.
 

gordonthemoron

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Just checked personalised timetable in EMT website and the 04:40 gets into STP at 6:21, not 6:51 as indicated in the spreadsheet. So only 26 mins from Luton Airport to STP
 

Edvid

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So the 0708, 0740 and 0812 London-bound depatures from Parkway will all be HSTs. I was expecting the latter two (from Sheffield) to be Meridians, but there we are...
 

222001

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Just checked personalised timetable in EMT website and the 04:40 gets into STP at 6:21, not 6:51 as indicated in the spreadsheet. So only 26 mins from Luton Airport to STP

Whoops thanks for pointing out that misstake to me.

There are a worrying amount of 5 car Meridians on the Sheffield-London services. I pray that they are 5+5 car.
 

P156KWJ

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jeez Netherfield's new service is shocking! 3 trains Monday-Saturday in each direction (all at stupid o clock) and once on sunday towards Nottingham or twice the other way (one to Skegness, one to Norwich). Although glad to see the RHL has a sunday service, there are now 2 trains an hour between Nottingham and Sheffield (even though one per hour is Northern not EMT) and that the Liverpool services rarely call at Langley Mill so it doesn't ahve to stop all the time, although having said that, they all call at Liverpool South Parkway now :lol:
 
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richa2002

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Well, a nice little gem in that timetable. 19:00 off St. Pancras to Corby is an HST as well as a return, will be a nice little evening trip that. No random Sheffield HST during the day though which is unfortunate.
 

Roberto

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Does it all hinge on the Hull Trains 222s?

I guess so though reliable information courtesy of EMT is somewhat lacking as they remain very tight lipped about it all.

BTW, I loved the write up on EMT's timetable page where they boast about speedier journey times, more seats etc in their super new winter timetable! What a joke.

It certainly won't mean quicker journeys or more seats if you live in Northants seeing just about every train will now call at Bedford and the two Luton Stations. Try fighting for a seat on any EMT train leaving London that stops in Bedfordshire and see what I mean. I had hoped that EMT would have adressed this real problem but it seems they have just made things worse!<(
 

Pumbaa

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I loved the write up on EMT's timetable page where they boast about speedier journey times, more seats etc in their super new winter timetable! What a joke.

It certainly won't mean quicker journeys or more seats if you live in Northants seeing just about every train will now call at Bedford and the two Luton Stations. Try fighting for a seat on any EMT train leaving London that stops in Bedfordshire and see what I mean. I had hoped that EMT would have adressed this real problem but it seems they have just made things worse!<(

Maybe not for you Northants folk, but for people like moi who travel to Sheffield on a regular basis, I very much like the new timetable. I think EMT have got it right - where the most direct revenue comes in ie long-distance business travellers and alike, from Sheffield, Derby, Leicester and Nottingham straight into London, they want to please them and do so by providing faster trains that stop less. I approve.

Meanwhile, you Northant folk are an added bonus. They've got a monopoly on you, so they can do what they want! Slow trains that stop everywhere serve the less important stations, fast trains that stop at major towns rule the roost. And as for not cutting Bedford and Luton, why would they? Loss of revenue!

But no, I'm perfectly happy with the new timetable, and my regular service allows me to get to my regular meeting on time! Hooray!
 

Roberto

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Maybe not for you Northants folk, but for people like moi who travel to Sheffield on a regular basis, I very much like the new timetable. I think EMT have got it right - where the most direct revenue comes in ie long-distance business travellers and alike, from Sheffield, Derby, Leicester and Nottingham straight into London, they want to please them and do so by providing faster trains that stop less. I approve.

Meanwhile, you Northant folk are an added bonus. They've got a monopoly on you, so they can do what they want! Slow trains that stop everywhere serve the less important stations, fast trains that stop at major towns rule the roost. And as for not cutting Bedford and Luton, why would they? Loss of revenue!

But no, I'm perfectly happy with the new timetable, and my regular service allows me to get to my regular meeting on time! Hooray!

I'm glad you're satisfied with the new timetable by the way. Some points though, we're not asking for the same level of service afforded to the bigger cities up north but I do think we deserve at least one train an hour that doesn't stop in Bedfordshire. After all, Market Harborough just 8 miles up the line has one fast and one slow an hour and the town is small compared to Kettering and W'Borough.

I'm fully aware that EMT have the monopoly they also have the monopoly with our buses as well which are run by Stagecoach and I'm not exactly happy with that situation either.

You mentioned money raised by stopping in Beds? The Beds stations are actually FCC stations, not EMT, and therefore any ticket purchased to travel to London from Bedford or Luton must surely go to FCC and not EMT? I gather that on the West Coast and East Coast lines that travel on the long distance services from, say, Milton Keynes or Peterborough cost extra as both towns are served by frequent electric local services, as is Bedford and Luton. Therefore, in fairness to those of us who are being 100% monopolised in Northants by EMT why can't they make those joining in Beds pay a supplement? It can be done and is done on other lines.

At the end of the day both Luton and Bedford are served perfectly well by FCC, but as we know many people won't use the trains and prefer to cram onto faster EMT services. In Northants we don't have that choice. Why then don't they just extend the Thameslink service up to Corby/Kettering, at least then EMT can stop serving Northants and the folk up north can speed by without the inconvenience of stopping!<D
 

Pumbaa

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You mentioned money raised by stopping in Beds? The Beds stations are actually FCC stations, not EMT, and therefore any ticket purchased to travel to London from Bedford or Luton must surely go to FCC and not EMT? I gather that on the West Coast and East Coast lines that travel on the long distance services from, say, Milton Keynes or Peterborough cost extra as both towns are served by frequent electric local services, as is Bedford and Luton. Therefore, in fairness to those of us who are being 100% monopolised in Northants by EMT why can't they make those joining in Beds pay a supplement? It can be done and is done on other lines.

No EMT get a slice of the profits, unless they are specifically FCC tickets ie Print@Home tickets or Advance purchase or to destinations not served by EMT. If this wasn't the case, I'm pretty sure EMT would cease calling there pretty quickly, as would NXEC and Virgin at stations where a similar arrangement exists.
 

222001

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Someone posted this on another forum - http://91.186.0.3/~keepingt/rm/169/RMAN_169.pdf. Tim Shoveller says that they will be getting the Hull Trains 222s; everything is complete apart from signing the contracts. They will have to have mods done first though and can't go straight into service (I wonder what these "mods" are). The Corby service will be hopefully be up and running from early 2009 (to me sounds like could be anything from Jan to March). It also states that the first class section of the 222s will be refurbished becuase they are too dark.
 

Edvid

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You mentioned money raised by stopping in Beds? The Beds stations are actually FCC stations, not EMT, and therefore any ticket purchased to travel to London from Bedford or Luton must surely go to FCC and not EMT? I gather that on the West Coast and East Coast lines that travel on the long distance services from, say, Milton Keynes or Peterborough cost extra as both towns are served by frequent electric local services, as is Bedford and Luton. Therefore, in fairness to those of us who are being 100% monopolised in Northants by EMT why can't they make those joining in Beds pay a supplement? It can be done and is done on other lines.

It depends on who sets the fares, not on who manages the station. Here are some Off Peak Day Return examples:

[P'Boro - London]: An ANY PERMITTED ticket costs £24.50 (fare set by NXEC), and a FCC ONLY ticket costs £20 (fare set by FCC).

[MK Central - London]: An ANY PERMITTED ticket costs £20, and a LDN MIDLND.ONLY ticket costs £14.50 (both fares set by LMR).

[Bedford - London]: An ANY PERMITTED ticket costs £16 (fare set by FCC).

Roughly speaking, there is a rule which decrees that whoever sets the fare for an inter-available ticket (generally of the ANY PERMITTED type) may not set a lower fare (with a restrictive routeing) for that same type of ticket, unless it is for a short trial period.


With that in mind:

[P'Boro - London]: NXEC services are more frequent than FCC services, so the control of fares here is no surprise. In total there are 7 'walk-up' tickets (including First/Standard season tickets) which can be sold with either routeing.

[MK Central - London]: The cheaper ticket only exists because it is a trial, although it has been around for some months and I don't know how much longer it will be sold for. In any case, there are 8 other widespread 'walk-up' tickets (including First/Standard season tickets), all of which are sold only with the ANY PERMITTED routeing, so MKC pax will continue to use Virgin services at no additional cost (however high peak Virgin services run fast through MKC anyway!).

[Bedford - London]: All inter-available ticket fares are set by FCC, and judging by the MK Central scenario, I wouldn't expect them to change the fares in order to lure Bedfordshire pax away from EMT services anytime soon.


If a ticket is inter-available (i.e. it is accepted by multiple TOCs on the same overall route) then revenue is determined by the speed and frequency of their services. In majorly simplified terms, the proportion of revenue a TOC is due (in a single day) is related to the proportion of services (in that same day) that they are responsible for; however, services that are overtaken by services of another TOC en-route do not count.

The typical off-peak frequency between Bedford and London is 6tph, of which 4tph belong to FCC and 2tph to EMT. 2 of the FCC services are overtaken by the 2 EMT services, so FCC only get half of the Bedford-London revenue made from selling inter-available tickets for that particular flow in that hour. OK, it's a simplified figure (and situation), but the fundamental point still stands - EMT make loadsa money from Bedford pax! (And also from Luton/Parkway pax, albeit to a lesser degree).

At the end of the day both Luton and Bedford are served perfectly well by FCC, but as we know many people won't use the trains and prefer to cram onto faster EMT services. In Northants we don't have that choice.

There are undoubtedly many EMT services that do become crowded thanks to Beds calls, but you seem to imply that this is always the case regardless of the time. I was on the 5-car 1500 ex-STP to Parkway today (and the 5-car 1600 ex-STP 1 week ago), and they were not crammed at all; however I have not used Luton (Central) in a while so I can't remember how crowded the semi-fast Nottingham services are compared to the semi-fast Derby services which I use.

In addition, Meridians and HSTs offer better accomodation than the 319s FCC have (even the refreshed ones, which aren't bad at all) - perhaps EMT should get some Pacers and even if they can somehow uprate them to 125mph, Beds passengers will flock back to FCC in no time! <D ;)

Why then don't they just extend the Thameslink service up to Corby/Kettering, at least then EMT can stop serving Northants and the folk up north can speed by without the inconvenience of stopping!<D

A good idea, but I don't think it'll happen in my lifetime.
 
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