Hence I'd just have a shuttle to Kettering, but i'm not in charge
I agree with that tbh, a 150 or something to run a nice shuttle. Ample wouldn't you think?
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EMT December 2008 timetable
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I agree with that tbh, a 150 or something to run a nice shuttle. Ample wouldn't you think?
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This is my feeling as well, at least for the moment, and I live in Kettering so understand the problems. Because of Corby Kettering is basically being downgraded with mostly semi fast trains all stopping at Bedford and Luton and the northbound service halved!
For the Corby service to really work and be useful, and this seems to be the feeling locally according to what I have read in local papers, is for the Corby service to continue onto places like Oakham or perhaps Peterborough/Cambridge. This has been muted and I gather about one per day will go to and from Oakham.
I wonder also whether a Peterborough or Cambridge to Milton Keynes via Corby and Bedford wouldn't have been better? There has over the years been much gossip about this as a possibility. Or even Corby to Milton Keynes.
But whatever happens, we're all suffering because of the ill thought out project which has more to do with keeping Labour MPs and areas happy (just my opinion) than providing a service! (Corby has a Labour MP (Phil Hope) one of very few in this area).
Living on the MML I sometimes get the slow train to Derby from St. Pancras and I have to say I have never seen that many people heading northbound from Kettering....
Also I though the fast Nottinghams were stopping at Market Harborough and "slow" Derby's non stop to Leicester then all stations?
I assure you that a fairly large number commute between W'Borough and Kettering to Mkt. Harborough and Leicester in particular every day. Granted, I don't think that many go beyond that but a lot do go to Leicester, including shoppers and those forced to change trains there to go to other places like Stansted Airport etc.
EML have actually reduced a half hourly service to both Mkt. Harboro' and Leicester to hourly. Remember also that a fair number travel from Mkt. Harboro' downwards to Kettering and W'Boro' as well. I do feel strongly that at the very least we should retian our half hourly service to what are close neighbours at the very least and maybe yes, hourly to Nottingham, Derby etc.
This new timetable is a disaster up and down the line and frankly will cause a lot of problems and doubtless EMT will learn their lesson and be forced to revert back next year to a more reasonable level of service to many of its customers.
Kneedown
Established Member
Or they could just bite the bullet, pull their finger out, and bring sufficient rolling stock to run the service instead of whittling on about the cost.
In our latest staff newsletter there is a lengthy article from Mr Shoveller detailing the problems caused by rolling stock shortages, and solutions that are/have been looked at. He devotes an entire section to the reasons for not going for class 180's, and i quote...
Maintenance - "Etches Park is over full already"
Cost - "A class 180 costs about the same to lease and maintain as a 222', to replace a 4 car 158 with a 5 car 180 would double and result in less seats', Only an Intercity Railway would be able to afford this type of train".
Yet later in the same article he states - "However, if we can obtain the additional units for Corby services" Meaning 4 (well, 3 and a half!) 222's from Hull trains that would cost about the same to run as a 180, and also need maintaining at an Etches Park that supposedly is already over capacity and cannot cope!
As for the comment about "Only an Intercity railway can afford 180's", are we not an Intercity railway then? Are we not looking to develop Liverpool - Norwich into an Intercity route as well as London? Are Northern an Intercity railway then?
I personally think the plot has been lost!
David Pemberton
Member
What's the best source of info on the detail of the December timetable. EMT website has nothing. The National Rail website has a feature to print a pocket timtable - I'm assuming that the info is good ( http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/en/pj/apyot )
If the NR pocket timetable is right then, from December, Nottingham business people travelling to London by train get a much worse deal than those travelling from Derby. In the morning, the key commuter services departing between 6 am and 9 am will be on average just one minute quicker from Nottingham, but four minutes quicker from Derby. Coming home in the evening on services departing St Pancras between 4 pm and 7 pm the gap widens. Journeys home to Nottingham take on average five minutes longer than now, but getting home to Derby will be a massive fourteen minutes quicker.
The story for prestigious "named" services is the same. The out and return journey on The Robin Hood takes a total of 3 hours and 30 minutes now, but from December it will take 3 hours 35 minutes, so five minutes longer. The East Midlands Express from Derby has a combined out and return time of 3 hours 19 minutes today. In December it improves by a whopping twelve minutes to 3 hours and 7 minutes. On the prestige services, designed to attract business travellers, Nottingham loses again. And as the Robin Hood will arrive later into London, and depart later from London, there’s a further detriment to Nottingham based travellers.
I appreciate that in all timetable changes there will be winners and losers. It's odd that a losers should be the business people from such a big city in EMT's catchment area. The Derby comparison isn't strictly fair (as it's the Sheffield fast services that create the fast services from Derby), but it's good for local rivalry! I guess the real pressure on the Nottingham fast services, giving them the extra stops, are from places further south like Market Harborough.
Still at least one really fast peak service for Nottingham, arriving before 9 am in London, would be nice. And yes five minutes each-way does matter, over the course of my commuting year it equates to 2.2 waking days...
If the NR pocket timetable is right then, from December, Nottingham business people travelling to London by train get a much worse deal than those travelling from Derby. In the morning, the key commuter services departing between 6 am and 9 am will be on average just one minute quicker from Nottingham, but four minutes quicker from Derby. Coming home in the evening on services departing St Pancras between 4 pm and 7 pm the gap widens. Journeys home to Nottingham take on average five minutes longer than now, but getting home to Derby will be a massive fourteen minutes quicker.
The story for prestigious "named" services is the same. The out and return journey on The Robin Hood takes a total of 3 hours and 30 minutes now, but from December it will take 3 hours 35 minutes, so five minutes longer. The East Midlands Express from Derby has a combined out and return time of 3 hours 19 minutes today. In December it improves by a whopping twelve minutes to 3 hours and 7 minutes. On the prestige services, designed to attract business travellers, Nottingham loses again. And as the Robin Hood will arrive later into London, and depart later from London, there’s a further detriment to Nottingham based travellers.
I appreciate that in all timetable changes there will be winners and losers. It's odd that a losers should be the business people from such a big city in EMT's catchment area. The Derby comparison isn't strictly fair (as it's the Sheffield fast services that create the fast services from Derby), but it's good for local rivalry! I guess the real pressure on the Nottingham fast services, giving them the extra stops, are from places further south like Market Harborough.
Still at least one really fast peak service for Nottingham, arriving before 9 am in London, would be nice. And yes five minutes each-way does matter, over the course of my commuting year it equates to 2.2 waking days...
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Surprised nobody has noticed this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/7657717.stm
What's going to happen to the timetable in December if there isn't enough stock?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/7657717.stm
What's going to happen to the timetable in December if there isn't enough stock?
Kneedown
Established Member
I believe there are just enough units to fulfill the diagrams, but that isn't taking account of maintenence, refurbs, failures etc.
EMT are hoping that they'll end up with the 222's from Hull trains, although they may very well not get them!
The Dft are partly responsible, but EMT must also take some blame for not going after 180's when available. Five or six of them and there wouldn't be any problems!
The situation is so dire that they're even considering 31's and stock on the Crewe line!
Don't EMT have a couple of HST sets spare as well? Then again DfT did say EMT weren't going to get much in the ways of new stock...
devon_metro
Established Member
Precisely my question as someone who lives in Kettering. What is going to happen to the Winter timetable if Corby's promised service has no rolling stock since this service will make up about 50% of trains to and from London for people using both Kettering and Wellingborough. The only other trains stopping will be an hourly slow train to Nottingham?
I have yet to hear any proposals from EMT or anyone else?
This is dire and probably going to be typical of how Stagecoach will be running things. Remember also that Stagecoach also run our buses so they have a total transport monopoly in North Northants!
222001
Member
Hmm...Why did EMT say they would be able to run the service knowing that they still needed to secure stock? No-where did it say extra stock would be required! Corby to London appears to be 1 hour 10 minutes. So to run an hourly service 3 Meridians are needed? The 3 222s Hull Trains have would fit this perfectly! Hopefully they will be able to get their hands on them.
I would have thought the chances of Hull Trains' 222s going to EMT by December are nil. The 180s are to undergo a fair bit of refurbishment including the installation of a galley for hot food before the 222s are released (that is, if they are released).
A 153 shuttle from Corby - Kettering wouldn't be too bad. Or a 156 shuttle to Bedford or something.
EMT Commuter
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From Long Eaton to London in the morning there is a service that is just as quick going on the West Coast via Tamworth; this'll be even quicker for people from Derby. Perhaps EMT are looking to loose customers that way.
It's been confirmed in the Northants press that Corby will not open in December because of EMT's failure to get hold of any rolling stock to run the service!
This has to be a scandal if you ask me seeing EMT has known since they took over from MML that they would need to run a service. What happened to their planning etc?
Anyway, some links to the Northants Evenening Telegraph with this story plus the disasterous new winter timetable that will leave both Kettering and Wellingborough with 50% less trains, an hourly service during the day, UNTIL someone in EMT gets their finger out and secures rolling stock and names the start date. In the meantime Northants is effectively shunted into the sidings and slow line until who knows when January, February, March or later? Who knows? Clearly EMT and the government don't care either.
This is a shambles!
The links:
http://www.northantset.co.uk/news/Corby-station-opening-delayed.4615142.jp
http://www.northantset.co.uk/news/Rail-users-gloomy-at-timetable.4614731.jp
This has to be a scandal if you ask me seeing EMT has known since they took over from MML that they would need to run a service. What happened to their planning etc?
Anyway, some links to the Northants Evenening Telegraph with this story plus the disasterous new winter timetable that will leave both Kettering and Wellingborough with 50% less trains, an hourly service during the day, UNTIL someone in EMT gets their finger out and secures rolling stock and names the start date. In the meantime Northants is effectively shunted into the sidings and slow line until who knows when January, February, March or later? Who knows? Clearly EMT and the government don't care either.
This is a shambles!
The links:
http://www.northantset.co.uk/news/Corby-station-opening-delayed.4615142.jp
http://www.northantset.co.uk/news/Rail-users-gloomy-at-timetable.4614731.jp
P156KWJ
Established Member
still don't see why the Corbys couldn't be a shuttle service provided by a sprinter, or at a push a 4-car meridian 
still don't see why the Corbys couldn't be a shuttle service provided by a sprinter, or at a push a 4-car meridian
I agree, well at least in the interim until EMT could be bothered to order rolling stock to run a proper service.
What outrages me is the fact 2 large towns on the network, Kettering and Wellingborough, with a population between them of about 170,000 have effectively been provided with a timetable more fitting to a Norfolk country station and not the mainline!
This whole affair has been a fiasco and once the timetable is in place, and passengers turn up expecting the usual half hourly daytime service, only to find trains run hourly, there will be world war three!
EMT are rubbish.
I can see you're getting worked up about this. I've always said EMT have been given a bad hand, and they have. And the timetable change until this has only really angered Mr. Loader (or so it seems ).
I agree that this is wholly unacceptable, however! To axe half the trains from Kettering and Wellingborough (both of which are big enough for me to know about!) is outrageous. I could understand if the Corby portion only were to be affected, but to lose Kettering trains is just not fair on people from your area and, for the first time, I'm going to say that this is entirely EMT's fault.
). I agree that this is wholly unacceptable, however! To axe half the trains from Kettering and Wellingborough (both of which are big enough for me to know about!) is outrageous. I could understand if the Corby portion only were to be affected, but to lose Kettering trains is just not fair on people from your area and, for the first time, I'm going to say that this is entirely EMT's fault.
Spaceflower
Established Member
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Never been to County Durham, Tyneside or Nortumberland? Many people up here think trains are props from sci-fi movies.
I think the difference here is that the Midland Mainline runs right through both Kettering and Wellingborough stations so are well on the map. If they weren't then I'd take your point.
Also, remember that there are only currently five stations in the whole of Northamptonshire, soon to be six when Corby finally opens for business.
The stations are, BTW: Kettering, Wellingborough, Northampton, Long Buckby and Kings Sutton (at the Oxon end of the county but technically just inside the county). So you see, we are hardly flushed with stations.:cry:
Roberto, are you quite sure that there will only be an hourly service from Kettering/Wellingborough? The EMT site still maintains that they will get two services an hour (albeit not to Corby).
I'd be really surprised if another service wasn't made to stop at those stations in the mean time if not :???:
I'd be really surprised if another service wasn't made to stop at those stations in the mean time if not :???:
If you look at the new timetable for December to May 2009 on the EMT web site and log in, say, all trains from Leicester south (stopping) you'll capture Northants trains and it's only an hourly service outside of the rush hours. I cannot see any additional services stopping. The Derby service has a last call of Mkt. Harboro' then fast to London. Logically this service should make additional stops but it isn't, according to the EMT timetable?
What is quite bizarre is the fact Mkt. Harboro' will enjoy two trains an hour, one fast to London, whilst two towns at least twice the size just a few miles down the track get just ONE train an hour and slow ones at that calling at the dreaded Bedford where the man and his dog pile on and fill the train to bursting point!
There is I think total confusion and EMT need to clear this up and make a definitive statement as to how Northants will maintain its half hourly service.
Hang on...isn't that because the Ketterring and Wellingborough extra services aren't starting from Leicester...
I'll have a look again...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Right, done Kettering southbound to St. Pancras - all stops - and shows two services an hour. xx:25 and xx:56 from Kettering and xx:33 and xx:04 from Wellingborough. Saying that, it still works for the Corby to St. Pancras timetable as well...
I'm still convinced that EMT would have put something on the website about there being half the southbound trains from Kettering and Wellingborough if that was the case but they haven't mentioned the lack of Corby service yet either...so I suppose it's wait and see...
Hi agai, you're right, I have also done the same checks and it does appear as though there is a train that (probably) starts at Kettering which is why it would't show on the Leicester downloads? I also see some odd Corby services coming from goodness only knows? This whole timetable is a shambles and confusing and not helped by the lack of any comments from EMT on their web site!?
As you say, we may have to wait until the paper timetable is out on 14th of November. Confusion reigns in the meantime.:roll:
In Modern Railways (November 2008 issue), it was reported that as they closed for press a few days ago, confirmation was expected that an agreement between DfT Rail, FirstGroup and EMT has been reached w.r.t. the Pioneers currently used by Hull Trains.
Apparently, Hull Trains will indeed send their Pioneers to EMT for the Corby service; however, the process through which this will take place means that, as stated in the press releases you've linked us to, they won't be ready in time (in the words of Modern Railways, 'a slight delay beyond the 14 December timetable change date').
Apparently, Hull Trains will indeed send their Pioneers to EMT for the Corby service; however, the process through which this will take place means that, as stated in the press releases you've linked us to, they won't be ready in time (in the words of Modern Railways, 'a slight delay beyond the 14 December timetable change date').
gordonthemoron
Established Member
are EMT going to maintain the bus-link to Corby in the absence of the new train service?
I wish, as a Kettering resident, they'd tell us that? Thus far, all we've had are conflicting and confusing articles in the local press and little else? EMT don't appear to have put anything on their web site to explain the situation so as it stands we have no idea about the bus link - though I guess that would continue anyway as it serves the local hosptal as well. We also have no clarification about whether the Corby service will start at Kettering for the time being? The timetable looks like it does but who knows because it also shows a few trains calling at Corby (early morning)?
I think EMT have been remiss in not making a clear public statement, especially locally so that people know what's happening.
If, as reported, we are getting the trains from Hull then this is good news but I guess they will need logos etc added which will take time.
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