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EMT December 2008 timetable
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P156KWJ
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as unfortunate as it is, there seems to be no teaching TOCs these days that if you cut off the branches you kill the tree (i.e. if you exclude Bedford etc. you loose money). Same with our local bus company.
Personally I think that EMT have got it right. In the past coming from South of London I would have changed from Thameslink at Luton or very occasionally Bedford, there seemed to be very few passengers joining the trains there but lots of commuters getting off. This all changed when FCC moved in to St Pancras International. With the Thameslink trains in the basement it no longer makes any sense to change anywhere but St. P.
i think Inter City trains should be just that and that places like Luton Bedford and Nuneaton can only expect a very limited fast service.
i think Inter City trains should be just that and that places like Luton Bedford and Nuneaton can only expect a very limited fast service.
They should make make Luton/Bedford/LAA Pick up and drop off only stations then. Like Watford Junction/Milton Kyenes for WCML. Or Stratford/Shenfield for NEEA.
thefab444
Established Member
I suppose this is like SWT calling Weymouth fasts at Woking, an operation to which I am strongly opposed. Especially when the Poole slows run fast from Clapham Junction to Farnborough!
richa2002
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Maybe for LAA and Luton but not for Bedford, I suspect this is a useful service for commuters who don't want to endure the slog on a 319 from Bedford.
Well maybe they would have to, seeing as commuters have to endure a 321/360 on the NEEA or a 321/350 on the WCML.
I mean, I don't want my train to call at Harpenden, but it does
richa2002
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Well, just because other commuters on other lines don't have the convenience doesn't mean it should be taken away for people at Bedford. Rather like the argument we were using against Luton/Bedford stops being taken away on the Sheffields.
Ditto with St. Albans.
Also, Shenfield is not a good comparison seeing as it only takes 26 minutes at the shortest to get to London on a non-class 90 hauled service from Norwich. Only 20 minutes from Watford Junction on a non-Virgin. 45 minutes from Milton Keynes. Whilst the quickest from Bedford is 52 minutes but this is a one-off service with the norm being around 59 minutes and 1 hour 10 minutes.
These times are from the peak time where the fastest services are likely to be.
Ditto with St. Albans.
Also, Shenfield is not a good comparison seeing as it only takes 26 minutes at the shortest to get to London on a non-class 90 hauled service from Norwich. Only 20 minutes from Watford Junction on a non-Virgin. 45 minutes from Milton Keynes. Whilst the quickest from Bedford is 52 minutes but this is a one-off service with the norm being around 59 minutes and 1 hour 10 minutes.
These times are from the peak time where the fastest services are likely to be.
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I couldn't agree more! Living in Kettering I am constantly amazed at the sheer numbers who board EMT trains especially in Bedford! The problem this causes is passengers who live a bit further up, such as Kettering and W'Borough, have to suffer huge overcrowding at times or standing if they travel from London northwards.
The thing is, people in Kettering and W'borough don't have a choice to London , it's EMT or nothing. People from Bedford and Luton already have a frequent London service but seem to use our crowded trains instead?!
I did ask during the MML days why trains couldn't have a pick up set down rule for Bedford and Luton? I was told this isn't possible as MML (and I assume EMT) are contracted to call at Bedford and Luton as part of the franchise. In the meantime Northants passengers are treated as non passengers as those south and north of us (Leicester etc) enjoy fast less crowded trains!
87015
Established Member
Thats what happens when you use stupid little 4-car DMUs. Going to be farcical overcrowding when it goes down to one train per hour to Leicester given they are pretty wedged already half-hourly.I couldn't agree more! Living in Kettering I am constantly amazed at the sheer numbers who board EMT trains especially in Bedford! The problem this causes is passengers who live a bit further up, such as Kettering and W'Borough, have to suffer huge overcrowding at times or standing if they travel from London northwards.
The thing is, people in Kettering and W'borough don't have a choice to London , it's EMT or nothing. People from Bedford and Luton already have a frequent London service but seem to use our crowded trains instead?!
I did ask during the MML days why trains couldn't have a pick up set down rule for Bedford and Luton? I was told this isn't possible as MML (and I assume EMT) are contracted to call at Bedford and Luton as part of the franchise. In the meantime Northants passengers are treated as non passengers as those south and north of us (Leicester etc) enjoy fast less crowded trains!
As for Luton/Bedford - don't think Thameslink has the capacity to take on all the passengers currently using EMT? Or enough stock to operate additional Bedford-Luton-Pancras fasts, which is what is really needed.
Couldn't agree more about the trains. It's a real pain for Northants passengers stuck in a no mans land that nobody wants. I often wonder why they didn't just extend the Thameslink line up to Kettering and include us as part of the Bedford/Luton service? At the moment we have a shabby, inadequate service set to get even worse with our hourly service northwards!
Its better to what MML used to have, 2/3 car 170s!
I think you will find there is some services that call at only Bedford, Luton, Luton Airport, Harpenden, St Albans, St Pancras then on from there.
But I don't see why they would leave out St Albans.
Only 222018 is still in 4-car formation - the rest of the short Meridians have been lengthened to 5 cars (albeit at the expense of taking cars out of the long Meridians).
Plans are underway to boost Thameslink capacity in the short and long term, but I reckon many Bedford passengers (and to a lesser extent some from Luton [+ Airport Parkway]) will continue to commute with EMT given the difference in journey times and accomodation.
With all this (merited) talk of overcrowding, would it be wrong to say that the 1800 to Burton-on-Trent is positively uncrowded upon departure (towards the front anyway), in spite of calling at Luton Airport Parkway and Bedford? (It is a 10-car Meridian service though)
Plans are underway to boost Thameslink capacity in the short and long term, but I reckon many Bedford passengers (and to a lesser extent some from Luton [+ Airport Parkway]) will continue to commute with EMT given the difference in journey times and accomodation.
With all this (merited) talk of overcrowding, would it be wrong to say that the 1800 to Burton-on-Trent is positively uncrowded upon departure (towards the front anyway), in spite of calling at Luton Airport Parkway and Bedford? (It is a 10-car Meridian service though
)I must say that as a Kettering user I find just about all the trains I use, even during the day, very crowded since most of our services stop at Bedford and one of the Luton stations. This is set to get worse as we basically lose about half our trains to benefit those further north desperate, it would seem, to cut 5 minutes off their journey times - at our expense.
This is all the worse given that North Northants (Wellingborough, Kettering and Corby (when it finally opens)) is one of the booming areas for housing! At the very time when the tains in Kettering etc are being used more and more is the time EMT think it's a good idea to reduce our services?! Quite Mad!
This is all the worse given that North Northants (Wellingborough, Kettering and Corby (when it finally opens)) is one of the booming areas for housing! At the very time when the tains in Kettering etc are being used more and more is the time EMT think it's a good idea to reduce our services?! Quite Mad!
With regard to off-peak services, what you're saying about the loss of services to/from Wellingborough and Kettering is not quite right. The half-hourly semi-fast service to/from London will be maintained, but the hourly service to/from Derby will be replaced by an hourly to/from Corby while the hourly to/from Nottingham remains - in other words, it is the service to/from Leceister and north thereof that is reduced.
Between London and Leceister, the Sheffield and Nottingham fasts will continue to run non-stop while the Derby fasts will call at Market Harborough.
I haven't fully explored the peak services yet so I can't say anything else about them.
Between London and Leceister, the Sheffield and Nottingham fasts will continue to run non-stop while the Derby fasts will call at Market Harborough.
I haven't fully explored the peak services yet so I can't say anything else about them.
P156KWJ
Established Member
so this means Derby's service to London is cut a lot? Will Corby trains run from Nottingham. And also, forthose who haven't heard, East Midlands Airport station is delayed and is unlikely to open until March '09 (was supposed to open Dec '08.)
My last post was perhaps not as clear as it should be so I'll explain it.
The off-peak frequency is currently as follows:
1tph to/from Sheffield via Derby [fast]
1tph to/from Derby [semi-fast]
2tph to/from Nottingham [1tph fast, 1tph semi-fast]
From December it will be as follows:
1tph to/from Sheffield via Derby [fast]
1tph to/from Derby [fast]
2tph to/from Nottingham [1tph fast, 1tph semi-fast]
1tph to/from Corby [semi-fast]
The difference is that the semi-fast Derby service is diverted to Corby, a new fast service to Derby is introduced and some of the intermediate stops will also change depending on the service (e.g. Luton will be served by Corby trains instead of today's semi-fast Nottingham trains).
And no, Corby trains will not serve Nottingham.
The off-peak frequency is currently as follows:
1tph to/from Sheffield via Derby [fast]
1tph to/from Derby [semi-fast]
2tph to/from Nottingham [1tph fast, 1tph semi-fast]
From December it will be as follows:
1tph to/from Sheffield via Derby [fast]
1tph to/from Derby [fast]
2tph to/from Nottingham [1tph fast, 1tph semi-fast]
1tph to/from Corby [semi-fast]
The difference is that the semi-fast Derby service is diverted to Corby, a new fast service to Derby is introduced and some of the intermediate stops will also change depending on the service (e.g. Luton will be served by Corby trains instead of today's semi-fast Nottingham trains).
And no, Corby trains will not serve Nottingham.
richa2002
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I find the service to Corby a bit of a waste of a path to be honest, surely a shuttle between Kettering and Corby is only what's necessary with proper connecting services from Kettering?
Why the hell would Corby trains serve Nottingham!?
That's like suggesting fGW services to reading call at Oxford.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I agree, were those buses used that much anyway?
This is my feeling as well, at least for the moment, and I live in Kettering so understand the problems. Because of Corby Kettering is basically being downgraded with mostly semi fast trains all stopping at Bedford and Luton and the northbound service halved!
For the Corby service to really work and be useful, and this seems to be the feeling locally according to what I have read in local papers, is for the Corby service to continue onto places like Oakham or perhaps Peterborough/Cambridge. This has been muted and I gather about one per day will go to and from Oakham.
I wonder also whether a Peterborough or Cambridge to Milton Keynes via Corby and Bedford wouldn't have been better? There has over the years been much gossip about this as a possibility. Or even Corby to Milton Keynes.
But whatever happens, we're all suffering because of the ill thought out project which has more to do with keeping Labour MPs and areas happy (just my opinion) than providing a service! (Corby has a Labour MP (Phil Hope
) one of very few in this area).I don't see it being worth while at all. Corby has no links, it will only be useful for commuters or the like. The bus was perfectly able for the service. Now we have lost better paths in order to run a Meridian up there.
P156KWJ
Established Member
woh!! Sorry! Thought the Corby branch was from the north, so it's from the south?
Splits off at Kettering coming from the south. Splits off at Syston Junction coming from the north/south.
87015
Established Member
I disagree, returning Corby to the network is worthwhile. Its the associated loss of the half hourly Pancras-Leicester semi's which are going to cause the problem. Even giving Corby an hourly Pancras, (I'd plan for a shuttle myself), all it needs is this 'Derby fast' to have proper connections at Kettering out of the Corby semi northbound and southbound but even that appears to have been too much!
Why not extend it to Nottingham or something.
87015
Established Member
Wouldn't it take far too long to be useful? Bit of a stagger and indirect route to boot.
And all stops to London Isn't? A semi fast Nottingham/Derby - London St Pancras via Corby would be better than just terminating at Corby. Better links too...
87015
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