EMR Regional and Connect refurbishments

[Trainman40083]

One of the issues people might have with the 360s is that there are no corridor connections between units.

 

[Chiltern006]

Shame there’s not a very similar fleet going spare as we speak…

 

[Trainman40083]

Shame there’s not a very similar fleet going spare as we speak…

Ah the 350/2s are starting to be spare very soon. Are the leases cheaper? Are they more energy efficient? Are they more reliable?

 

[QSK19]

Ah the 350/2s are starting to be spare very soon. Are the leases cheaper? Are they more energy efficient? Are they more reliable?

So much money and effort has gone into the 360s that I doubt they’d be given up on now - and that’s before considering the lease agreement expenditure and implications.

A shame, because I do think that the 350/2s would have been much better for Connect.

 

[Trainman40083]

So much money and effort has gone into the 360s that I doubt they’d be given up on now - and that’s before considering the lease agreement expenditure and implications.

A shame, because I do think that the 350/2s would have been much better for Connect.

Maybe another operator will find a use for them. If HS2 was open, they could have enhanced services on the WCML to reduce overcrowding. So, they could store them until 203x until it is.

 

[Aspen90]

I believe contract recently signed until 2033 for the 360’s…

 

[tfw756rider]

Ah the 350/2s are starting to be spare very soon. Are the leases cheaper?

West Midlands Trains decided to not keep the 350/2s because their leasing costs were more expensive than those of the 350/1s/3s/4s. The 360s' leasing costs would have to be even more expensive than the 350/2s' leasing costs for the 350/2s' leasing costs to be cheaper than those of the 360s.

 

[Trainman40083]

West Midlands Trains decided to not keep the 350/2s because their leasing costs were more expensive than those of the 350/1s/3s/4s. The 360s' leasing costs would have to be even more expensive than the 350/2s' leasing costs for the 350/2s' leasing costs to be cheaper than those of the 360s.

Maybe it is cheaper to let them rot in storage sidings.

 

[duffield]

People often mention the 4 car Class 158s are too small for the Liverpool to Nottingham service. I'm not sure what they would like to see. A four car 158 has more seats than a four car 170. Any train longer is too long for several of the station calls Maybe an extra fast train only calling at half the stations. But if the DfT says NO, nothing will change. NOTHING. People wanted nationalisation. This is what you get.

Longer trains are not really a significant problem. On Thursday 1R52 0636 Nottingham to Liverpool Lime Street was made up of 2x3 coach 170s. The length was no issue, the guard just told people to move to the front 4 coaches (i.e. the front coach of the rear unit) at the relevant stations.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Realtime Trains | 5Z70 1114 Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Etches Park Sdgs | 17/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Z70 1114 departure from Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Etches Park Sdgs on 17/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z71 1439 Etches Park Sdgs to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 17/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Z71 1439 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 17/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

170502 leaves on Thursday. Another 170 will replace it.

 

[WestCountry]

A 360 was dragged from Derby back to Kettering this evening (a friend saw it) as 5R62

Realtime Trains | 5R62 1629 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Kettering Stabling Sidings | 15/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5R62 1629 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Kettering Stabling Sidings on 15/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

There seems to have been a move in the morning from Kettering to Derby, 5R21

Realtime Trains | 5R21 0948 Kettering Engineering Sdgs to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) | 15/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5R21 0948 departure from Kettering Engineering Sdgs to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) on 15/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

and corresponding light engine moves 0E62 and 0M57

Realtime Trains | 0E62 0624 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Kettering Stabling Sidings | 15/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 0E62 0624 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Kettering Stabling Sidings on 15/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 0M57 1855 Kettering Stabling Sidings to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) | 15/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 0M57 1855 departure from Kettering Stabling Sidings to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) on 15/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Was this one unit making a day trip to Derby, or two different ones being swapped over? Start of the refurbishment programme? I can hope!

 

[LowLevel]

A 360 was dragged from Derby back to Kettering this evening (a friend saw it) as 5R62

Realtime Trains | 5R62 1629 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Kettering Stabling Sidings | 15/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5R62 1629 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Kettering Stabling Sidings on 15/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

There seems to have been a move in the morning from Kettering to Derby, 5R21

Realtime Trains | 5R21 0948 Kettering Engineering Sdgs to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) | 15/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5R21 0948 departure from Kettering Engineering Sdgs to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) on 15/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

and corresponding light engine moves 0E62 and 0M57

Realtime Trains | 0E62 0624 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Kettering Stabling Sidings | 15/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 0E62 0624 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Kettering Stabling Sidings on 15/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 0M57 1855 Kettering Stabling Sidings to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) | 15/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 0M57 1855 departure from Kettering Stabling Sidings to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) on 15/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Was this one unit making a day trip to Derby, or two different ones being swapped over? Start of the refurbishment programme? I can hope!

Nothing that exciting, cab air con repairs apparently.

 

[QSK19]

Nothing that exciting, cab air con repairs apparently.

And here was me thinking that loco-hauled 360s were going to be the solution to the 222 shortage and hence the move was for getting route clearance

 

[Trainman40083]

And here was me thinking that loco-hauled 360s were going to be the solution to the 222 shortage and hence the move was for getting route clearance

I thought even the Greatest Gathering. Well, everything else seems to be going

 

[43074]

A shame, because I do think that the 350/2s would have been much better for Connect.

A 350/2 is basically a 360 but with end gangways.

They are also a much bigger fleet than EMR would ever need so I'm not sure I follow that logic. They are also just as tired internally and it doesn't do anything to solve the maintenance problem so I'm not sure how that would have made a difference.

 

[QSK19]

A 350/2 is basically a 360 but with end gangways.

They are also a much bigger fleet than EMR would ever need so I'm not sure I follow that logic. They are also just as tired internally and it doesn't do anything to solve the maintenance problem so I'm not sure how that would have made a difference.

For the reasons I’ve highlighted. The end gangways would, IMO, make a huge difference. And as for the larger fleet, taking on more than 21 would have ensured more slack in the fleet and future-proofed electrification going further north (both in terms of extra, STP-NOT/DBY stopping services & “crowd buster” services if pathing allowed and also having all these electric trains would have, in a way, forced the government’s hand in authorising RS2/3/4/5).

 

[43074]

For the reasons I’ve highlighted. The end gangways would, IMO, make a huge difference. And as for the larger fleet, taking on more than 21 would have ensured more slack in the fleet and future-proofed electrification going further north (both in terms of extra, STP-NOT/DBY stopping services & “crowd buster” services if pathing allowed and also having all these electric trains would have, in a way, forced the government’s hand in authorising RS2/3/4/5).

There are only 12 diagrams for 21 units at present - no way would DfT allow EMR or any operator to run a fleet of 37 units for 12 diagrams. Even if they ran some 12-car peak services, they would need no more than 14 or 15 diagrams assuming only the high peak arrivals/departures from St Pancras were strengthened.

There's also no way extra St Pancras to Nottingham/Derby stopping services would fit in the timetable - not without tweaking the existing Corby paths anyway or sacrificing some of the Nottingham/Sheffield paths.

 

[tfw756rider]

...having all these electric trains would have, in a way, forced the government’s hand in authorising RS2/3/4/5).

What's that?

 

[croydontangle]

What's that?

Numbered route sections to break up the MML electrification. Railway Gazette lists them as:

1. Kettering to Wigston South
2. Wigston South to Syston
3. Syston to Trent Jn
4. Sheet Shores Jn to Derby (Chaddesden Sidings)
5. Trent Jn to Notts
6. Derby (Chaddesden Sidings) to Toadmoor Tunnel
7. Toadmoor Tunnel to London Road
8. London Road to Sheffield North

 

[tfw756rider]

Numbered route sections to break up the MML electrification. Railway Gazette lists them as:

1. Kettering to Wigston South
2. Wigston South to Syston
3. Syston to Trent Jn
4. Sheet Shores Jn to Derby (Chaddesden Sidings)
5. Trent Jn to Notts
6. Derby (Chaddesden Sidings) to Toadmoor Tunnel
7. Toadmoor Tunnel to London Road
8. London Road to Sheffield North

Many thanks.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Realtime Trains | 5Z70 1114 Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Etches Park Sdgs | 17/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Z70 1114 departure from Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Etches Park Sdgs on 17/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z71 1439 Etches Park Sdgs to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 17/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Z71 1439 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 17/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

170502 leaves on Thursday. Another 170 will replace it.

170502 not leaving today.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2025 ==

Realtime Trains | 5D70 1056 Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Etches Park Sdgs | 27/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5D70 1056 departure from Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Etches Park Sdgs on 27/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

170502 (fingers crossed it leaves this weekend)

Realtime Trains | 5K70 1448 Etches Park Sdgs to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 27/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5K70 1448 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 27/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

170 of some description.

 

[43055]

170502 not leaving today.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2025 ==

Realtime Trains | 5D70 1056 Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Etches Park Sdgs | 27/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5D70 1056 departure from Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Etches Park Sdgs on 27/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

170502 (fingers crossed it leaves this weekend)

Realtime Trains | 5K70 1448 Etches Park Sdgs to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 27/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5K70 1448 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 27/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

170 of some description.

Those paths are in every week. Presumably once the turnaround is quicker these maybe the normal paths.

 

[Mariner16]

170504 is at Etches waiting to go over

 

[honorata]

158847 has been launched in Nottingham.
158847 launched at Nottingham

 

[Jacob Porrett]

https://x.com/Clinnick1/status/1948310604982215162?t=2AkMTQIBKk_8Wd069jXxCw&s=33

From Richard on X

158847 now in service after it's refresh. One down 24 to go.

 

[liamf656]

https://x.com/Clinnick1/status/1948310604982215162?t=2AkMTQIBKk_8Wd069jXxCw&s=33

From Richard on X

158847 now in service after it's refresh. One down 24 to go.

No it's not in service yet. Most likely tomorrow

 

[fgwrich]

Surprised we’ve not seen any interior photos yet!

 

[DanielTheEMid]

Surprised we’ve not seen any interior photos yet!

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1156789076489572&set=pcb.1156789309822882 Actually, there is 1 photo already released

 

[Martin222002]

Today's Railways have posted a selection of interior photo's on Bsky.

https://bsky.app/profile/todaysrailwaysuk.bsky.social/post/3lupebbltfs2x

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks good. I note they've bothered to clean the ceiling on these!